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I see a lot of pic of ta's with cracks in the door panels. I have an 02 and would like to know if there is an average time frame or mile that this seems to happen? Didn't know if I should be thinking about the door panel fix soon. It has 20000 on the clock.
Thanks for any reply.
mine doing the same thing its a 99
I think it is more of a time thing than mileage. I saw an article about this in HP Pontiac, they gave a nice write up and fix. I did the fix to my doors before it cracked. When I looked at them closely before I fixed it I could see where it would have cracked. Took my door panels off, relieved the stress from the weatherstripping, and put it back together with small nuts and bolts instead of the staples it has OE. I recommend everybody do it to theirs sooner rather than later.
Do you know where to find the step by step process?
It was in HP Pontiac sometime the past 18 months. I am not organized with my magazines very well LOL!!! It wasn't hard tho, if you can remove door panels without doing them any damage, you have enough sense to look at the back side of them and see how many staples to remove from the metal part of the weatherstripping to relieve the stress. Oh yeah, I forgot to say in the article they used some 2 part epoxy for the backside of the door panel to reinforce that area. Scuff the back of the panel so the epoxy adheres.
You have to drill where the staples went thru for the small screws (I think it was a number 10 or 8 screw and nut) or in a slightly different place on the panel to relieve the stress. If I run across the article, I'll try to give a synopsis.
Thanks man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Too Fast
Here you guys go!:) Link to full article with pics......
http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...air/index.html
Nice! That is it! Thanks.
Can we get a sticky for that link at the top of the Firebird/ WS6 page?
I included a link to this thread in the basic Firebird sticky above. Thats the best way I can do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st TA
Just joined today, want to input i have an 02 with 26k miles on it. I have 2 cracks on my drivers side :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st TA
Check out these pics : http://rides.webshots.com/album/562650026XVVrXC
Mine is a '99 and I have no cracks but will probably do the preventative mod soon.:)
Thank you for the sticky to the thread.
I too have a 02 ws6 with 26,xxx miles and have the crack on the drivers side, but not the passenger :rant:Quote:
Originally Posted by ccasper69
You guy's care to add your door panel pics to my collection, just post them here and I'll upload them. Maybe I'll send them to GM when I have enough lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by 99WS6RAMAIR
Yeah, me too. Came with the car when it only had 20K on the clock, haha. O well, there are fixes for it, im not worried.Quote:
Originally Posted by noxside
Here's my write up that I did years ago:
With a lot of people dealing with this problem I thought I should post the writeup I did for collectorfbody.com. Its very straightforward and basic, geared toward the novice. I myself had never done any sort of repair like this on the car myself, but I was damned if I was going to let it get worse, haha.
Late in 05 I noticed that my Driverside Door panel was getting the infamous crack in it that so many get. Here I thought I would post how I went about fixing it.
First thing is you have to get a few supplies:
One being a Plastic adhesive. I got this one at Walmart for like $3.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairA.JPG
You're also going to need a touch up kit for the panel itself. Depending on the severity of the crack, results will vary. I got this kit for about $8, again from Walmart.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairB.JPG
First step in the removal is to take off the Switch Panel. The Panel is held on by tension clips(the black steel clip at the top of the panel). All you have to do is pull up on it and it will come free. Be sure not to pull too hard, though as you don't want to stress the wire harnesses.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairC.JPG
Next, just disconnect the wiring harnesses from the Switch Panel and set the Panel aside in a safe place
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairD.JPG
Now for the removal of the screws holding the panel in place. The first is the one in the center of the door handle coverpiece. Do not remove cover yet.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairE.JPG
Now, before you try to remove the cover you have to take off the lock switch knob. You have to pull the end out toward you for the tip to come off the wire. It may take some strenght to pull it off but it will be fine.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairF.JPG
Here you can see how the wire is and what the plastic piece actually sits on.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairG.JPG
Carefully pull the cover piece off from around the door handle. Do so slowly as there is a bulb attached to the pice that must be unplugged. Just unclip it and set aside the cover in a safe place.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairH.JPG
The next screw to remove is down in the map pocket of the door.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairI.JPG
Next, remove the screw from the very Front underside of the armrest, near where the switch panel is.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairJ.JPG
Remove the screw that is located near the now exposed area of the door handle.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairK.JPG
Remove the cover for the Side mirror access. This will allow easier removal of the door panel. place the cover in a safe place after removal.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairL.JPG
The next Screw can't be seen easily in the photo but it is in the exact center. There is a hole where the armrest meets the map pocket and inside is the screw you need to remove.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairM.JPG
Now for the removal of the panel. I wasn't able to take pics of this process due to the fact that I need both hands to remove the panel. Now, the only thing holding the panel onto the door is a bunch of plastic downward facing hooks. Remove the panel by gently pulling it up and towards you at a slight angle from the door. While removing the panel it may seem to get stuck, just pay attention to the area that the hook are in as the toughest ones are near the front of the door by the speaker.
Be careful pullin on it due to the fact that the front speakers are still connected to the panel. Once you have the panel semi removed you can disconnect the tweeter and speaker.
Once the panel is off you will be able to see the problem.
The crack is caused by a structural flaw in the plastic combined with the use of industrial staples to hold the window trim to the panel. The crack is cause by changing weather temperatures which make the plastic panel expand and contract. The window trim has a metal insert which does not allow for any kind of expansion or contraction. and since the plastic is mated to the strip with thick metal staples...it doesn't allow for the panel to stretch are release naturally and causes the panel to pull itself apart.'
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairN.JPG
What you need to do is remove the staple in front of the crack area and all the ones behind the crack area.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairO.JPG
I used a flat head screwdriver and needle nose pliers to remove the staples. Bend the teeth straight and then just push back through the plastic to get them out.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairP.JPG
Once the staples are removed the panel will come back together naturally. Depending on the size of the crack you might need some pressure to really hold it together. scuff up the area of the crack nicely for the adhesive to bond to.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairQ.JPG
Next follow the directions to mix the Plastic Welder and while the crack is nicely snug, apply a generous amount of the welder to the area you sanded. The adhesive should dry according to the directions and once that is done you want to replace the staples. I used some copper wire that was a bit smaller in diameter than the staples. This will allow the panel to move a bit against the window trim. I just put the wire through each hole as a direct replacement of each staple and it worked fine.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairR.JPG
I used Interior Vinyl/Leather Repair Kit that can also be bought at Wal-Mart for very little money. Comes with many colors to use to mix to match your interior. If you have a color other than black, I would suggest mixing the color per directions on the package and then testing it agains the BACKSIDE of the panel. Let it dry and see how close it comes to the panel color.
The exterior of my panel only needed a dab of black touch up paint. The crack repair is in the exact center of this photo.
http://www.legendoffire.com/collect/...oorrepairS.JPG
Now with your newly repaired panel...just reverse the deconstruction process from above and replace the panel. Be sure to hook up all speaker and lamp wires while doing so.
Now, my passenger side had no crack. As a preventive measure, I took it off too and reinforced the "crack sensitive" area the same way I did the driverside. When I took the panel off I could tell that there was stress being put on the section of the panel that cracks, but had yet to actually crack.
If you don't have any cracks...I still suggest reinforcing this area. Its better to be safe than sorry.
Hope this will help out anyone looking to do the repair themselves. It is really not that hard as long as you take the time to do it slow and careful.
man I was wondering what those damn cracks were on both my doors, It happened after I took it out of storage from the winter, I noticed I have two very small cenimeter cracks starting, thanks for posting the fixes guys...
Yes deffentialy thanks for the good info, I have a crack in my drver side pannel and now I know why it happend and how to fix it.
Yes but there must be a reason we don't all have it. I know of a few '99's here in our city that haven't had a problem including mine???Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 RedHot TransAm
I'm sure allot of it has to do with where you live where the car it kept and time. I have a 99 and I have 1 crack in my driver side.
Thanks so much for the info, mine wasn't cracked yet but I did the mod to prevent it from happening. I woundered why all the TA's I looked before I found mine had cracks. Thanks again!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jujofields
BOTH MY DOORS HAVE THIS CRACK AND I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE GETTING THIS! I THOUGHT IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE WEATHER!
GOOD STICKY! :woo:
99 T A here with only 15,450 miles !!! Mine started cracking last year always in garage & stored winters !! I heard its a defect in plastic but just like GM only fixed if under warranty !!! No recalls !!! problem for 98-02 !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st TA
I looked at mine up close today and even tho I couldnt see any cracking, I could feel that the plastic was not even. There are two "humps" about 2-4 inches apart from each other on my drivers side panel (99 WS6, 22K miles)
I got a 99 Trans Am WS6 with 60,000 miles and it has cracks on both sides. It was like that when I bought it acutally
Quote:
Originally Posted by trans am man 99
There should be a recall! Check out these examples:
http://rides.webshots.com/album/562650026XVVrXC
and then they should include the crappy power window motors and headlamp motors as well!
Recalls are for are almost always for safety issues so you won't see one for a cracked door panel problem:whistle:
I don't agree as I just received a recall notice for a leaking pinion seal which I wouldn't consider being safety related.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutlass
If it the GM recall I'm thinking of, then yes its concidered a saftey issue. Here how that recall reads:
Quote:
General Motors has decided that a defect, which relates to motor vehicle safety, exists in certain 2005-2007 model year Cadillac CTS, CTS-V, SRX, STS; 2006-2007 model year Cadillac STS-V; 2007 model year Daewoo G2X and Opel GT; 2006-2007 model year Pontiac Solstice; and 2007 model year Saturn SKY vehicles. The drive axle differential seal (two on all-wheel drive vehicles) may leak because it does not meet GM's specifications. If a seal is leaking, there will be fluid on the ground where the vehicle is parked. If enough fluid leaks, the differential will become noisier because of reduced lubrication. After about two-thirds of the differential fluid is lost, the bearings may no longer be lubricated and may start to overheat. Damage to the bearings and other differential components could then occur. Damaged bearings will create noise that may be heard by the vehicle occupants. If the vehicle is not repaired and damage progresses, three conditions can occur: (1) When the vehicle is stopped and shifted to reverse, the differential may jam and prevent vehicle movement; (2) the damage can cause drag that will feel like the brake is applied; or (3) the differential could jam and lock the drive wheels while the vehicle is in motion. If (3) occurs, the driver may not be able to control the vehicle and a crash could occur without warning.
that's not the only place our door panels crack. i have one one on each door in the same spot that everyone else does. I also have a crack starting further up towards the side mirror on my drivers door. and still, if you look at your door panel where the leather is and it's located on the part of the panel that would be closer to the back seat. not up where it normally cracks, but about half way down the door panel where the panel meets the leather. I have cracks there on both doors as well. This is only part of the problems I'm having with my car. engine is great, but car is falling apart around it. shoulda bought a mustang and dropped the ls1 in it...lol
weather isnt the factor on the cracks its stress caused from the staples holding the window molding on...i did the preventative mod on mine last summer, WORTH IT FOR SURE...any car show im usually the only one with out those cracks...if u dont have the the cracks..U WILL, unless u do this mod.. it is A+++
Had to change the window motor in the drivers door so this mod is done on one door at this point.
Same here. I put my 02 T/A away every winter, but this Spring when I brought it out of hibernation I found a crack on the Drivers side Panel about mid way near the windowQuote:
Originally Posted by noxside
i need to fix mine too.
Bugger. I had no idea this was such an epidemic. I thought it was just me. My passenger side door just cracked in the last year or so - I blamed it on my wife. The driver's side is still good. I'm glad I found this - I'll be fixing the passenger side and performing the preventative on the driver's side soon.
Yes do it soon!
Hmmm, I must be doing something right as my '99 still has no sign of cracking whatsoever and I am somewhat reluctant to do the mod as my virgin door panels have never been removed!:yup:
Mine hasn't cracked either. 2001 with 30K on the clock but it sits in a garage. I made the mod to the driver side in November and will likely do the passenger side soon just as a preventive measure. The stress was slightly visible on dr side and the modification relieved it. The choice to make the chage is yours but I know I'd be upset if it cracked and I hadn't done anything about it knowing that it might happen.
My '01 vert w/68K is just starting to show a hairline crack in the drivers side door. I am ever so careful about closing that door until I can get to the repairs. Pass door panel seems ok at this time. I do appreciate the detailed steps outlined earlier, thank you.
BTW: The car is parked in the garage thus usually doesn't experience the extreme temperature changes.
Mine has no cracks on either side but a slight hump. I'll be removing those staples soon. The 1st write up here recommended using a nut and bolt instead while the 2nd write up just said remove the staples. Are the nuts and bolts necesary?
If you just remove the staples, ..., How will it be held on?!?
Your answer to this question, will answer your question.
Unless you have some other manner of 'holding it together'.
Beats me, I've never had the panel off to even look at it.
Not only do I have the cracks, but I have some fading of the grey colored plastic to a lighter grey (Just below the felt, about an inch or so tall and as wide as the entire door panel). Do they have some kind of GM plastic paint for the panels as well?
This is a problem on all trans am's, including mine. Some camaros have cloth covering these spots.
This kind of stuff never happened on my 1995 Trans Am. Why did they change things for the worse?
I just think it is wierd that almost all of the newer T/A's have them.
I just got off the phone with a Camaro and Trans Am specialist here in Florida. They run a junk yard just for these 2 cars only and sell new & used parts. In late 98, they changed the plastic formula and it is lighter (probably to save money) and all 98+ models have it. 97 models are the most sought after for their door panels. Releaving the stress from the back of the panels help, but it is the heating up and cooling down that gets em' eventually. I am curious to try the epoxy fix, but I still have fading and would like someone to suggest a dye and a process if they are familiar with it.
This looks like it should work for the door panels. Anyone have experience with this stuff?
http://www.afterthoughtsauto.com/vht-vinyl-dye.html
Has anyone been able to find Devcon Plastic Welder locally ?
Walmart stopped selling it.
Thanks
epoxy/gorrilla glue works just as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Blue2KTA
Gorrilla glue is good for gluing 2 pieces together but i don't think it will work well in this situation. It also expands alot after it drys, may come through the crack.
I got it at Autozone.. Did my driver door a couple weeks ago. Planning on doing the passenger door today. Took a little longer to set up than the label said, but it may have been the slightly colder weather. Worked good though, just make sure you sand the surface a little. I also recommend using drilling new holes in the weather strip and using wire/ twist ties as opposed to nuts and bolts.. The nuts and bolts kind of seems like a step backwards for me as this wont allow the panels to flex either :shrug: maybe I'm wrong though. just my .02Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue2KTA
I'll go to Autozone today, hopefully they will have it. I have to do both doors. Thanks for the twist ties tip too !Quote:
Originally Posted by nichoLaS1
I used thin (22 gage) wire but same idea..Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue2KTA
btw removing the staples is by far the hardest part of the fix..
well I tired my hardest today to fix the passenger side panel that was completely cracked.. Actually came out a little better than I expected. I think with some dye/ vinyl repair kit, it could almost look perfect..
Before...
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...1017001531.jpg
After...
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...1017001755.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/...017001755a.jpg
That does look better.
Mmmm.. Initially an idea that does not make sense...but i did this repair very successfully and i drilled and used 3mm nylock nuts where needed which means you can fasten them up until they just start to hold things adequately and then stop as the nylon will hold them securely and still allow the necessary "slight movement" :o)Quote:
Originally Posted by nichoLaS1
Trev... :o)
Good idea.. Yeah I was just heistant to use the metal hardware that I some people (HP pontiac magazine etc.) used.. Glad it worked out for you though :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyWS6
I have a small crack on my pass door, and nothing on my driver's door. I'm going to try this over the winter.
Don't wait too long, especially with the season change coming up.. Doesnt take much time, and trust me, you'll sleep better at night knowing the crack won't continue to get bigger (or start on the drivers door) lolQuote:
Originally Posted by qwk93ta
Mine cracked during the winter, just sitting in the garage...don't wait too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by qwk93ta
Yes, don't wait. Glad I fixed mine when they were first showing some stress, I recommend anyone with a 4th gen bird do it, even if they look ok. Unless you want to fix it after it cracks....
Man so I just took off my drivers side door panel. No crack yet but a little line starting to form you can only see from the backside. Man these staples are a bitch to get out! I need a smaller cutting wheel. I'm starting to wonder if this will realy stop this.
It will stop it.. and yes taking the staples is the biggest PITA of the whole project. Also make sure you try to straighten out the weather stripping as best you can before reattaching, or else it will be wavy (kind of common sense I know, but I didnt spend enough time on my passenger side, so it kinda bothers me)... I applied the epoxy to each of the notches that are cut out for the window stabilizer as these are the areas of highest stress concentation (i.e first to crack), not just the crack near the end of the door. In fact, the front notch- above the door handle-cracked worse than the typical crack spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by INMY01TA
Hmm, I was gonna ask if you guys are removing all the staples all the way across or just the rearwards ones. I've never seen them cracked towards the front. I need to get some better pliers and a smaller cutting wheel and I guess I'll take them all out.
Take 'em all out. do it once, do it right.. you'll sleep better knowing that it wont happen to the fron ones because TRUST me, each of my doors has 2 cracks (one in the typical spot and one near the door handle, where as mentioned the notch is cut out for the front window stabilizer)Quote:
Originally Posted by INMY01TA
...an ice pick works good for getting under the staples teeth, and then straighten and pull out with pliers
Well I got to work on my door panel again for the 1st time since I started. Had 4 staples left and got them out much easier. Once you figure out what works, what doesn't, it gets easier. I then scuffed the back of the panel where my 1st crack was starting and applied some loctite epoxy I got from Walmart. While that's drying I then took a 5/64 drill bit and drilled out all the existing staple holes a li bigger on the panel and the felt strip. Stole nichoLaS1's idea and ran some 24 gauge thin galvanized wire I got from Lowes thru the holes and after the epoxy is all dry I'll tighten/tie them up and re-install the panel. If it cracks at all now at least I know I did what I could to stop it. Not looking forward to doing the other side although I got all winter.
Since mine were cracked on both sides already, I just removed the staples until the tension was relieved enough to have the gap(s) disappear.
I also used my dikes to remove the staples, made it pretty easy, but use that tool almost everyday at work.
got my panel off and used some plastic epoxy i got at wally world.......it did not hold and cracked again a few days later....before i had put the panel back on TG......gunna use some 3M plastic glue i got and hopefully that will work
How the hell are you guys getting the door lock knobs back on from underneath the plastic trim piece? I tried for like an hour, my fingers were all beat to shit. Maybe my hands are too big being 6'6 and all. Anyways I said f*ck it and took the dremel to the plastic trim piece and enlarged the opening just enough so the door lock knob could pass thru the opening after clipping it to the lock rod 1st. You cannot tell I modified the trim at all once it's all back together. Anyways I already pulled the other side off, removed all the staples, drilled the holes a little, and scuffed/epoxied it. After a day of drying I'll wire it up and reinstall. Not even gonna mess around with the door lock this time, gonna do the same thing to this side. Getting good at this.
One more question. Does the black rubber piece in the upper corner (side near the door opening) fold inside and want to go down with the window when you roll the window down? I looked and the other side does this too but I had the glass replaced once and maybe the guy messed that side up as well. I never noticed this.
Hopefully. Honestly if mine were cracked bad I'd just replace em and remove the staples beforehand. I see the panels on Ebay for like $200. Not chump change but half or so of what GM wants for a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by sjsingle1
I don't have any cracks on my door panels yet, so what can I put on the inside of the panel?
Hi....
o24mula..... If you have no cracks at all, then you are in the lucky minority, but prevention is beter then cure as they say!
You asked what to put on... It's more like what you can DO, and the link here
http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...air/index.html will detail everything.
When my panels were off i went the tiny nuts and bolts route rather than lesser gauge wire and the like, and after many months it/they are still fine.
A lot of guys here are using epoxy glues which is fine and they may well stick well and do the job well, but i used a black polyurethane automotive sealant and it worked great, but i had experience of good results in the past on other jobs with this which is why i went with something familiar and known to work!
What i will suggest is that whatever adhesive you use you MUST very agressively scratch and score the area to be bonded and i would heavily suggest a bridging piece of material to "splint" the area rather than just glueing over the top of the split with a puddle of glue. To bridge i used a heat curved rectangle of ABS which is the same material as the door panel.
Just follow the link well and you'll do fine:yay:
Trev..... :o)
Sorry, the link dosen't work SpeedyWS6, but I plan on agressively scratch and score and then clean the area and after it dryes, apply "Permatex Perma Poxy" (General Purpose Epoxy).Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyWS6
Copy & paste doesn't always work if you borrow from another post, ...
http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...air/index.html
That's odd....
After posting i tried the link and it worked fine??
No matter, thanks for the observation and new link
Pontiacfan :o)
As far as epoxy goes... as by it's very nature it dries
hard and can crack. Personally speaking if using it i
would HAVE to back the crack with a bracing piece.
Just makes more sense to me for a stronger result!
good luck
Trev :o)
Yes, I was thinking the same thing about epoxy. That it would just delay cracking. I was thinking about "General Sealant" it will be flexiable but it won't give you strenght. So I was thinking about applying the epoxy (let it dry for a day or two) then put "General Sealant" on top of the epoxy. :confused:
What do you think?
024mula.......
If i am really honest i cannot see that being a direction i would go.
I am not sure when you say "General Sealant" whether this is a brand i am not familiar with or it is a multi purpose sealant widely available, but it is obviously not epoxy.
I have just re-read the repair process in the link and they do indeed just "smear on" a big puddle of epoxy on the back area! I just cannot see this as the best possible option. To my mind the crack can just re-appear as there is no backing to really splint and strengthen the area?! You only have to do this the once so i really would go the extra mile and do it properly.
I have been thinking whilst typing and a good solution to what to use on the back of the crack would be one of those bondo/plastic filler spreaders which you get a couple of with a large tin?! Maybe try and put some shape into it by some creases or something and bond to the back with the adhesive i suggest! (although it is called a "sealant, it is a tenacious adhesive also)
Trust me..... it'll work.... Once and properly!! This is of course also doing the staple pry out and make good process also !!
Trev... :o) Keep me posted!!!!!
Good advice speedyWS6, I will keep you posted on what I do.
Right now, I just removed all the screws I could find from the door panel (thinking that might relieve any harmful pressure) I'm affaid its too cold out in the garage (about 38 degrees) to start manhandling the plastic panel around. I'm working on locating a heater.
I would use a wire mesh or something similar. Lay down some epoxy, press the mesh into it, and then smooth it over with more epoxy. That would be your strongest repair as long as you achieve a good bond.
THATS a good ideal, Thank You!Quote:
Originally Posted by pajeff02
Jeff....
This an excellent idea and you would get good penetration and bonding with a mesh!!!
But..... I will have to say i wouldn't use epoxy. I DO realise it is an excellent glue, i really do, but our door panels (like any form of plastic) are not porous in any way and i still maintain a good polyurethane sealant ( as an adhesive) would be superior in this application, after a damn good scratch/abrade of the surfaces to be be bonded. By it's very nature it will cure with a very slight flexibility to it whereas epoxy dries hard and brittle
I have experience of both, plus loads of others in my work as a college lecturer in design and technology and my panel is still as good as the day i did the repair! The product i used was Sikkaflex 221 and this link will go a way to explaining!! http://www.sikaindustry.com/tds-ipd-sf221-ind-us.pdf It is rather a long winded PDF file but basically apply,spread,and bring together the two layers.
Please believe me that a well roughed up surface and a good layer of this product or a very similar type will be spot on ( maybe lightly clamped whilst curing, also)...
I am an old git now, well... not that old.... and have seen it all in my work over the years!! Keep me posred
Trev... :o)
Trev - thanks for the info. I have heard of Sika before and believe it is available in our area. I agree that you have to match the bonding agent to the material for it to work. I haven't posted this yet, but our driver door does have a crack so I will be performing the recommended repair and relieving the pressure on the passenger side panel as well.
I put the epoxy I got from Walmart on my panel on Sunday and it's still tacky. I don't think it will ever dry/harden.
Hi Trev,Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyWS6
So you think/know Sikkaflex 221 is better than epoxy?
The reason I am asking is, I just taken my door panels off and there laying on my kitchen floor warming up.
As you know my doors panels do not have a single crack. So I'm trying to decide on what kind of bonding agant to put on the inside of the panel to streangthen it.
How cold is it where you live?Quote:
Originally Posted by INMY01TA
The directions reads that it will cure in 4 hours at 72 degrees.
:wtf:
Door panel's in my living room at 70'. I'm thinking it's just cause it came from Walmart..??Quote:
Originally Posted by 024mula
Maybe all epoxy's are not equal?Quote:
Originally Posted by INMY01TA
I got some epoxy from Walmart also and its called "Permatex Perma Poxy" General Purpose Epoxy. I was going to put it on tomorrow, but now I'm going to wait and hear what everbody else on hear has to say on the matter?
If you used the wrong kind on yours, can you scrape it off with a stiff putty knife?
Phew....
A lot of things going on here!!
INMY01TA..... I would imagine your epoxy product was a 50/50 mix and a good stir? I can only imagine the mix (whatever the advised ratio) was not completely followed or as you intimate further on down that it was an inferior brand? If you have the pieces at 70 degrees then that is more than enough to promote curing. better brand needed i guess but as you know i would not suggest epoxy at all!!!
So, 024mula..... you are pretty lucky to have no cracks, thats's for sure and acting now should forever prevent them! My passenger door had no crack but i still did all of this as a preventative measure. So long as you do ALL of the staple removal in the HighperformancePontiac link followed by your choice of re-do (Little nuts/bolts or lesser gauge wire), and also taking delight in the panel breathing a sigh of relief at this point, then the mesh as Jeff suggested ( great idea ) or a further patch of ABS or some other sheet plastic bonded in place with a polyurethane adhesive ( please, please!!) then all would be great!! When you do it i would very much suggest a good amount thoroughly spread on EACH ( VERY scratched and roughd up )surface and then to bring the two "wetted" surfaces together, which is better than one dry surface being brought to one spread surface.
I might add that there are other brands of polyurethane sealant out there which are pretty much the same make up and would do fine. "Tiger seal" is one and i would wager they are all aimed at the automotive market as you can find many forums where the members are talking about their use and how to bond things like panels together..... have a quick look here http://snipurl.com/1qjxd9, as it was the result of a quick google and sounds like proof( but i must stress i AM NOT A RICER!!!!) Also... this is not a "make a cup of coffee and it's done" adhesive!! It will need all night in a warm spot to cure right through ( with a light clamping, perhaps). It "skins over in a couple of hours but not right through so don't be tempted..... :dodge:
As far as the "not set" epoxy goes, INMY01TA, then yes it may scrape off with a putty knife... but properly set epoxy will be pretty brittle and will almost "ping" off in chunks if dug at!!
024mula.... ,you are dead right in saying that not all epoxies are equal! Any good brand like a Loctite product or "Araldite" ( you guys may not have this?) will do a good bond, but NOT on non porous ABS ! I have just had a look at the permatex site and there are 1/3/30 minute general purpose epoxies!! Not familiar with this brand and who knows... but i will say it cites "hard plastics" and yes ... maybe our panels are hard but not in the sense of , say, a thick square of Acrylic, Plexiglas... call it what you will.
Changing direction slightly, shavings of ABS with acetone applied in a cup to make a "sludge" could also work as it "becomes one" with the ABS of the panel when used as the "paste" for glueing but i did trials and it was just a bit too hit and miss to be reliable:thinkin:
Hope this is all of merit.... and keep me posted!
Trev... :o)
Lets re-cap:
Heres what I plan on doing: First of all, I have no cracks in my panels.
1. Clean the entire lenght of the inside of the panel with Acetone (nail polish remover) let it dry thoughly.
2. Apply a coat of epoxy along the entire lenght of the inside of the panel.
3. Place a long strip of screen (window screen) on top of the epoxy.
4. Apply another coat of epoxy on top of the screen.
5. Let it dry for 12 hours before putting the panel back on the car.
Is there anything else I should do?
uhh, remove the staples...Quote:
Originally Posted by 024mula
Oooohh....
024mula.... Please re-read my whole last post! I am after you doing this right the first time.
If i read you right you plan on laying down epoxy along the WHOLE length of the panel, on the inside... NOT NEEDED! As INMY01TA highlights... you MUST remove the staples. If not all, then in the immediate area of the crack ( i know you have none), but i bet there is a small sign of the panel doing it's "thing" right where they WILL occur if you don't follow the Highperformance link very accurately. Here are three pics of mine ....
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/a...409/crack3.jpg
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/a...409/crack2.jpg
http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/a...y409/crack.jpg
They just show the before and after attainable, and yes the middle pic is after the repair and virtually invisible. Also note the big angry staple holding it all together... these are the culprits! You don't even have any yet!!!!
Going back to your acetone suggestion for a clean...nuthin' wrong with that at all.... but you MUST, MUST heavily scratch and roughen up the panel in the glueing area for a good bond as my first pic shows a smooth surface which is not very good for adherance!
having said all of this about the glues and prep work... you have no cracks, so the first thing is GET THEM STAPLES OUT, and let the panel "relax". I just re-read one of your earlier posts and you ask about "strengthening" your panel. This is not strictly speaking what were doing here with no cracks. We are "preventing" and so GET THEM STAPLES OUT and re-affix with lighter gauge wire or the little nuts and bolts... both allowing a very small degree of movement and thus no panel stress!!
keep me posted
Trev... :o)
Heres what I did, but first let me tell you that I thought my door panels were crack free - I was wrong, there is a small crack on the drivers door panel (I thought it was a spring thread at first).............
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/100_1160.jpg
the back (inside)............................kinda blurry but its there......
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/100_1161.jpg
These about nine staples they put in the door and they are REALLY tight............
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/100_1167.jpg
The tools I used to remove the staples........................
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/100_1172.jpg
I didn't remove all the staples but I did loosen (by bending them so they are loose) the staples I did leave in were the staples on either end and two in the middle, so they all are spaced eqauly but not so one of the staples is at a weak point in the door..............................(if you look close you can see them)............
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/100_1177.jpg
Then I cleaned the area to be epoxyed with a cleaner...............(rubbing alcohol)..........
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/100_1181.jpg
Then I put the epoxy glue on.............................(first I scuffed it up with a wire brush)..............
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/100_1179.jpg
This is how I had the panels proped and ready for epoxy.............................
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/100_1174.jpg
After applying the epoxy now I wait until I think its dry enough.
I hope this helps.
Mmmmm....
I do to, and you have done a good job towards not having the crack go any further but i have to be honest and say i would have followed pajeff's idea of a mesh of some kind to help re-inforce the area concerned.
Not to take away any from your efforts though..... they are good, and this job can be a right pain in the butt:cuss: If you are doing both panels i would have a good look, and at least do the staple removal and your choice of "fix" on the passenger door panel as i said earlier... prevention is going to be better than a cure! The staple removal and subsequent re-do with lighter wire or nuts/bolts aspect of this job cannot be stressed highly enough. You actually have said the staples are "REALLY tight............" Proof enough as to why the weatherstripping and panel cannot get along together without this intervention:(
I hope it all comes good for you!!
Trev... :o)
I could probaly put a screen on top of the glue thats on there on (its only been one hour) and then add more epoxy?
I allready put two small lengths of allumium window screen untop of the epoxy on the passenger door panel that already set up. And a full length of screen on the drivers door panel.
Looks good.
P.S. Happy New Year!
Nice work!!
I reckon that will be a good addition to the repair!!!!!
And happy new year to you too :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay:
Trev.... :o)
And i might add.... a very happy new year to one and all on this great site!!
:happy::happy::happy: