Front End Pedders Install (Pics)

on how to "fix" our strut rub/lazy ass steering response etc. I have concluded to my satisfaction anyway....that all one needs is this....
ProductsBaseFinal
GTO EPC27 Front Sway Bar Bushings
GTO EP3451 Sway Bar Front Link Urethane Bushing
GTO EP9166 GTO Caster Adjustable Radius Rod Front Bushings

You do not need $2000 dollars worth of "stuff" regardless what the internet experts say. If your struts arent leaking...basically this is it....$300 bucks worth of "stuff"......and a 4 wheel alignment.....
I'll do a picture supported step by step.....this will tighten up things considerable....improve handling/steering and braking.....Yes you can get the same stuff from Noltec cheaper.....but I could not get the sum bitch to call me back and Pedders warehouse is just up the road. So I'll do a pic/step/instructions for any and all "gotcha's".......then a truthfull butt dyno writeup.....seems on some forums any discussion on the suspension turns into a Pedders "war"....fuck that....Before and after pics to follow....I'll measure slack etc. also so we all can compare...these suspension mods are good for 04/06/06 GTO's. I did the rear a couple of years ago.....so this is just the front....

Looking forward to your results. With my 06 I want the several grand road, and it made it way to stiff.
Id like to see what you come up with. Oh what do you have for the rear? As you mentioned you have already done it.

Well on my GTO the rear end is built and has been for awhile. Pedders Springs/Koni's/Sway Bar/Bushings etc. took care of launches.
The front end is the focus today. The GTO comes from the factory with "lazy steering" IMHO.....Braking is soft at best. Even with the BAER upgrades I have. She stops but has never been "crisp". She rolls in turns when hauling ass. I find myself constantly correcting my line when driving down the highway. Not pulling one way or the other but sorta drifting.....and of course strut rub which I temporarily fixed with 235's versus 245's and some alignment adjustments. I read on various forums till my eyeballs fell out. I got lots of info on "how to" and read through lots of replacement stories but not a single one of the 52,483 threads I read talked about the basic issues nor what it was they were trying to fix. Just lots of "Suspension Days" and lots of selling a shitload of parts :) Screw that.

So I focused on three things I wanted to accomplish.
1. Make the steering responsive and solid.
2. Increase the braking performance and experience.
3. Reduce or eliminate "roll".
Now suspension is not an area I am any good in. I am like all the other knuckleheads who just buy "packages" and hope for the best. Not this time. I am very fortunate to have some suspension experts right here in my little town. Greg Spreen is a very successful race engine builder...his Dad was a SCCA National Champion and he is no slouch in late model NASCAR....but he builds his son, Dillon, race car and this kid is a up and coming star. You will see him in a few years on TV. Greg knows all about suspensions and how to do it obviously as many contribute his sons success with his Dad’s ability to set up his car..... http://txsz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16163 ....Ray Goodman is a top NHRA altered class stud. His Dad was a nationally known Funny Car builder in the 60's and 70's. They still build and race some mean/wild dragsters and know their stuff. They both are my pals and live right here...so I ask them and spent time discussing the GTO. Damn....these guys know how to diagnose and fix anything related to suspensions......so I just wanted to make sure anybody reading this knows I am not the guy....I give all the credit to Greg and Ray for walking me through all of this and what to do.......
OK....so the consensus was this...the GTO engine is about 6 inches past the centerline where it should be. We are nose heavy guys. This puts significant stress on all the front end components. Not the struts or springs but the swaybar/radius rod bushings and end links. The radius rod bushings control the forward and backward forces to keep the wheel stable. Braking and the radius rods want to go through the front fender along with your wheel. The bushings keep this from happening….or is suppose to…the factory bushings are a layered soft POS and allow the wheel to move forward when braking. Guess what?..…this also contributes to strut rub…something we proved in Rays shop…..when you are braking the wheel moves forward a tad and allows the tire to rub. The factory bushings do not keep the wheel in place. It does move. The end links are adequate….and are built to stabilizes the strut under load…..problem again is the bushings are flimsy POS and allow the end link to stress thus allowing the strut to walk on you……even just driving down the road I can clearly see where the radius rod bushings and the end links would allow the car to “drift” around and the steering to be “soft” at best…and clearly you are giving up braking power because the fricking wheel moves forward under breaking. The sway bar comes from the factory a 28MM and more than adequate to keep both wheels on the ground….and prevent roll…but once again it cannot do it’s job when mounted with flimsy rubber POS bushings to hold it in place.

So now focused…I went off to find replacement Radius Rod Bushings/End Link Bushings and SwayBar Bushings to tighten this thing up. And I must say…..on some forums clearly the majority of debate/conversation is the Strut Mount….we looked at 3 GTO’s…my 04 and two 05’s. All three were in perfect shape. One of the 05’s had over 45,000 miles on it. Also the guys dismissed the strut mount as a major contributor to the real problems anyway. So I didn’t go there…..so….there seems to be two companies involved in performance suspension parts for our GTO’s. Pedders and Noltec. Pedders dominates the forum sponsorship of GTO boards…..so you will find most folks have upgraded with Pedders….Noltec has a cult following and the GTO guys that upgraded utilizing their stuff swear by it. So I have no doubt both Pedders and Noltec have superior bushings over what we have stock. Here are links to these companies….
http://www.peddersusa.com/
http://www.noltecsuspension.com/

I paid $314 bucks from Pedders for the end links/radius rod bushings and swaybar bushings. I did price the same thing out with Noltec and they came to roughly $245.
I went with Pedders for two reasons. The Texas Pedders guy lives here in my little town and their warehouse is less than 20 minutes up the road in Kerrville. He brought me the parts :) You make up your own mind who to buy from. I am probably reaching the “word limiter” so I’ll get into the install next page……

First things first. All these bushings are easy to access and change out. Couple of notes from my installation I'll share so you don't have to learn new cusswords.
1. I pulled the GTO up on my ramps and took the old radius rod bushings out. When I went to put the new ones in the fricking rod was sticking out about two inches too far. I had to jack the wheel up off the ramp to get the Radius Rod to relax and go back so I could put the new bushings in. So I suggest jack stands so you don't have to do this.
2. When your pulling the end link off.....you will have to also jack up the control arm a tad to get the sway bar to relax to get the end link out....this also will allow you to release the sway bar and get the sway bar bushing out...so your killing two birds with one stone.
3. Pontiac will tell you the 24mm radius rod bushing nut is a one time thing and you must buy a new one. Do what you want....but I used blue locktite on all the nuts. Hell at 109lbs of torque and blue LockTite I think I'm good.....
4. Lots of debate on caster....caster is where your tire is in relation to the center of the wheel well. Too much forward and you rub the inner wheel well....too much negative caster on the tire goes back and rides rougher.....so I went standard and the sports setting on the outer bracket...I'll show you what I mean later.
5. Clean the shit out of everything before installing the new bushings. Grease is supplied with the parts...
6. Get a 4 wheel alignment after the install. Cost me $125 bucks. I'll supply the alignment specs later...the specs are not stock Pontiac but work damn well and make much more sense to the experts than the stock specs. I'll attest the proof is in the pudding later.

here are all the parts.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/sgtgeek/FE1.jpg
The drivers side Radius Rod Bushing....I have dual remote oil filters so you guys are seeing them here....dont try and figure out what in the hell those things are :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0883Medium.jpg

Take off the 24mm nut in the center first. Sum bitch is on there so grow a set and get it broke loose. The remaining 4 13mm nuts come right off no problemo and the bushing will slide out. Grease the inside of the new bushing and the face and rear face. Slide the metal bushing into the new bushing center hole. Now comes the settings. Here is Pedders little "sheet" you get with the parts.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...k/RRBspecs.jpg
The consensus around the shop was the 8mm and 2mm in the rear and the 4 as the spare in front. Also the sports setting for the front bracket/washer...so that is what I did. There is a washer on the very back of the radius rod. So put your two size washers up against that. Then slide on the big washer from Pedders. Then your bushing. Then the bracket/washer. Then the spare sizing washer ( in my case the 4mm) Then the 24mm nut. I cleaned it all good and used locktite. The manual calls for 35lbs torque on the 4 13mm bolts and 109lbs on the 24mm. I hand snugged everything down and bounced the car a few times to settle it all in good...then torqued em all down. Repeat the process on the passenger side. This is the new bushing in before I put the 24mm nut on.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0884Medium.jpg

Utilizing highly scientific measurement tools and methodologies I had measure two points of interest to me....1. The distance between the edge of the tire and the inner wheel well. 2. Distance between the tire and the strut (remember I have 235's)...after I installed the radius rod bushings I pulled out my precesion measuremnt tools and compared. Before the wheel was two and one half fingers and after it was a full three fingers.This is old man forefingers by the way. Before the strut was barely a pinkey finger away from the tire. After it was a full forefinger away. So "standard" settings did move the wheel back (negative) a tad.....thus changing the wheel orentaition all around. I was a little concerned on the impact of this but we will get to that later. Simple install guys. I only learned on the 24mm nut. Dont try and use a deep socket as you will not have room for your ratchet....I used a regular short 24mm socket....in case any of you need to go buy one:)
Radius Rod Bushing Installation
Tools needed
13mm socket
24mm socket
torque wrench
LockTite or new nuts.
Time start to finish about 1 hour and I had 2 smoke breaks and talked on the phone once :) Easy job here guys.
Finished passenger side Radius Rod Bushing...(that is the transmission fluid filter before it goes up to the cooler there)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0891Medium.jpg

On to the swaybar bushings and the end link bushings.
Pic of OEM swaybar bushings and the new pedders.....you can see the black factory bushing is a joke. Flimsy POS. The new Pedders is solid. By the way they are sitting on top of the POS factory Radius Rod bushing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0892Medium.jpg
Here is what we are after....these pics are from the passenger side by the way....
Here is the swaybar bushing....see the copper bracket holding it in....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0886Medium.jpg
Now I started to take it off using a open end wrench....but that got old...so I opened the hood and you can get right to both of the nuts ...look down and there they are. I used a couple of extension and got after them. Came right off. Once you get the bushing bracket off...you need to break the swaybar loose.....break the end link from the swaybar here....You may need to jack up the control arm about an inch or two to let the swaybar come loose.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0888Medium.jpg
Go ahead and pull the old swaybar bushing out...clean it up good....grease the inside of your new bushing and set it in there....retighten the bracket and nuts. I torqued them to 35lbs. Here is the new one installed....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0894Medium.jpg
Now remove the end link for its new bushings. You need a 16mm wrench for the top nut and a 14mm wrench to hold it while your taking the nut off. I measured the distance between the first washer and the end of the bolt so I could put it back the same distance.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/sgtgeek/FE3.jpg

Pay attention to the order of things coming off and put everything back in the same order. Pull the POS fatory bushings out and install the Pedders ( or Noltec whatever) and reinstall in reverse order. Here is a comparison which do not do the Pedders bushings justice. The OEM bushings are rubber POS. I dont see how anybody ever felt they would provide any stability at all. The new ones sure as hell will.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0893Medium.jpg

No grease for the endlink bushings guys. Here they are installed. You cant see the top one......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...0895Medium.jpg

That is pretty much it.....do the drivers side.......swaybar and endlink bushings...on to the alignment.

Here are the alignment specs we used. Use whatever blows your skirt up. We used these though.
http://www.peddersusa.com/images/PDF...nt%20Specs.pdf

No special tools are needed for any of this. Couple of jackstands and a good old floor jack. Figure about 4 hours for everything.

The Results.
Well I will try and keep from sounding like a 13 year old girl at a Hannah Montana concert here....but I may not be able to......
Before I even got to the road...I noticed the brakes. Stout and crisp. I felt the sum bitches for the first time since I had the car. Hallelujah! I got stout brakes finally.
Heading to the highway I did not notice any difference in the ride quality. It isn't stiff or hard (blow me goes out in advance to the smartasses)......The steering wheel definitely has more "feel of firmness"....she tracks straight as an arrow at all speeds. No more "wandering"......I did go into a couple of turns fairly hard and she stuck...I felt zero roll......
All in all....I met my goals on all three accounts. I just cannot verbalize how much better the old black bitch drives. She feels like she should have coming from the factory for the first time in 3 years. If I would have known these simple inexpensive
"mods" would have made this much difference...I would have done this first before even a CAI or dyno tune......it really makes that much of a positive difference.
$400 bucks and 4 hours...a damn good deal for you and your GTO.

Very nice write up Sarge, and very informative.......NOW come on up here and give me a had with mine....LOL:yup:

Bring that black bitch to me.....I'll fix her ass.
Man I just went out on my Sunday morning terror run. I just cannot get over how much better this car drives. I wish I had done this day one.....

Thanks Sarge,

So you like Hannah Montana??

She is the bomb.

I'm ordering the rear radius Rod bushings right now....I dont know what in the hell I was thinking not doing them last week with everything else.......oh well....

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Originally Posted by Sarge

I'm ordering the rear radius Rod bushings right now....I dont know what in the hell I was thinking not doing them last week with everything else.......oh well....

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Yeah, that's how it starts, get a little taste, want more to get the fix, then next thing you know you're a full blown user.

I need to align the front cradle.......hurry up with Lesters....few of us are waiting.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarge

I need to align the front cradle.......hurry up with Lesters....few of us are waiting.....

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We are on it... Brandon is on the road. I need to get down to Texas.

Folks you probably noticed the GTO forum is now sponsored by PeddersUSA and ol JusticePete runs that outfit. So welcome JusticePete to LS1.COM. We check our tampons at the door here unlike "some forums".
I'm glad you could join us...folks Pedders is the new GTO Forum sponsors here and I am very excited to have them as part of the forum. Welcome Pedders.

Nice very well written install guide Sarge, great job!

:sarge: = :thumbup:

Thanks bro....

Great write up, man.

Got a link to the work you did to the rear?

I'll do a pic write up....but man that rear end is not stock. We got the blow torches out a few times :)

Sarge - do you have a comprehensive list of all the suspension parts that you installed to fix the lazy steering (front & rear). Also, I don't see any of the pic's of your install. Thanks!

I see all the pics. Check your browser settings. I dunno....
Sure....in the front I replaced/upgraded the raidus rod bushings front and back, end link bushings, sway bar bushings and of course the strut bushings and bearings.
In the rear is the Harop Cover,Koni adjustables, all poly bushings,Pedders drag springs and this weekend I will be installing the Pedders Cross Member bushings. We have gone back to the "stock rear end" as the Ford rear end was a PITA and we just could not make it stay put. POS.....

Good write up. Take it from me you will like the cross member bushings. They take the slack out of the drive line and make the car flatter in the corners. Do the subframe connectors too. After mine were welded in, I wished I had done it before!!

Also, did you do the Ford 88 conversion, and did I hear you say it was a bad setup?? Please shed some light on that issue.

Sure man....should have said "gave up" is more accurate. The brackets and a pumpkin out of a 93 Cougar in the junk yard....then it turned into a cluster fuck over the CV/stubs. After awhile I just said fuck it....I'll let somebody else "discover" the complete kit.....the other problem I had was the brackets just never did fit right...or should I say I wasn't comfortable with them....I hear there are some 10 sec GTO's out there running the 8.8....but I haven't tracked them down to ask the questions...what do you know or have heard?
Yeah I got the cross member bushings changed out....your not going to believe this....for three years I have been running around with no top bushing from the factory....they didn't install the top part of the bushing.....so hell yes the new Pedders bushings made a huge difference....

I have not heard anything or read anything yet about 88 conversion performance whether via do it yourself or DSS kit. I read certain guys tried the conversion, but they have not posted any results. It certainly provides a variety of diffs and pinion sets that could improve ETs.

Get this, it has been said that the GTO OEM axle stubs fit into the 88 diff. Meaning they are of the same diameter and spline. The rub occurs when you attempt to bolt up the CV Shafts and find them too long because the 88 is wider than the OEM. I think the shafts could be shortened and rewelded correctly and with strength by a good DS shop. Thereafter, cryocvac the shaft for additional strength.

My thoughts are to purchase the hanger from DSS to avoid doing the engineering, and then install the GTO stubs and size up the shafts for trimming. I would of course take a stub to the yard or other scource for the 88 carrier, and check the fit before committing to the project. If the stubs fit, then it maybe a cheaper solution. Also, the shortened CV shaft will be stronger than stock if welded correctly.

I've seen a company in Australia working on a 9" pumpkin that uses 9" ford pinion/ring gears and posi/spool units. I'm sure that would be pretty stout.

Harrop has some quality bits in place for this application. There are good, but they are expensive....

http://www.harrop.com.au/root_folder..._irs_diff.html

I assuminmg this is on a 04 car,my 05 has none of these mods,factroy shit aint wore out ,not yet.I have drove a few 04 cars brakes sucked.nice write up.

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Originally Posted by qwkgto

I assuminmg this is on a 04 car,my 05 has none of these mods,factroy shit aint wore out ,not yet.I have drove a few 04 cars brakes sucked.nice write up.

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Same suspension. Dont have to be "wore out"....this is a great modification.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarge

Take off the 24mm nut in the center first. Sum bitch is on there so grow a set and get it broke loose. The remaining 4 13mm nuts come right off no problemo and the bushing will slide out. Grease the inside of the new bushing and the face and rear face. Slide the metal bushing into the new bushing center hole. Now comes the settings. Here is Pedders little "sheet" you get with the parts.

The consensus around the shop was the 8mm and 2mm in the rear and the 4 as the spare in front. Also the sports setting for the front bracket/washer...so that is what I did. There is a washer on the very back of the radius rod. So put your two size washers up against that. Then slide on the big washer from Pedders. Then your bushing. Then the bracket/washer. Then the spare sizing washer ( in my case the 4mm) Then the 24mm nut. I cleaned it all good and used locktite. The manual calls for 35lbs torque on the 4 13mm bolts and 109lbs on the 24mm. I hand snugged everything down and bounced the car a few times to settle it all in good...then torqued em all down. Repeat the process on the passenger side. This is the new bushing in before I put the 24mm nut on.....

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Hey Sarge, Great write-up. It helped me understand how to install these parts but I have one question. I keep reading this part over and over but can you make it simple which washers to install in what order?
Thanks

Sure...your spacer washers go behind ( towards the rear of the car) the big washer in the rear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarge

Sure...your spacer washers go behind ( towards the rear of the car) the big washer in the rear.

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Thanks :yourock: The big washer toward the rear or front of the car?

Ill subscribed to this for one day I WILL have a goat:) Great write up even tho ive had it bookmarked before..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WS6ICK

Thanks :yourock: The big washer toward the rear or front of the car?

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OK...when you remove your original bushing you will have the radius rod sticking through a big hole in the frame. You put your big washer on first.Then your spacer (8mm/4mm etc) on. Then the bushing. Then the outer metal "brace" ( I use the sports setting).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarge

OK...when you remove your original bushing you will have the radius rod sticking through a big hole in the frame. You put your big washer on first.Then your spacer (8mm/4mm etc) on. Then the bushing. Then the outer metal "brace" ( I use the sports setting).

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OK got it, Thanks Sarge.

Hey Sarge i got an issue. I have the sway bar and RR bushings. When i was changing my tire the other day i noticed the end link on the driver side was completely off!! It was just hangin there. So im assuming the nut backed out for whatever reason. Well i got a nut and tried to reinstall it and the threaded stud at the knuckle is just free spinning. Im guessing my best bet is to go ahead and buy the complete end links from Pedders huh?

I would.....not expensive at all.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarge

I see all the pics. Check your browser settings. I dunno....
Sure....in the front I replaced/upgraded the raidus rod bushings front and back, end link bushings, sway bar bushings and of course the strut bushings and bearings.
In the rear is the Harop Cover,Koni adjustables, all poly bushings,Pedders drag springs and this weekend I will be installing the Pedders Cross Member bushings. We have gone back to the "stock rear end" as the Ford rear end was a PITA and we just could not make it stay put. POS.....

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can you send me the part # to them konis? do they help that much..thanks..
ford rear..lol i agree hell i know alot to ford guys who break em and they have no where near the power we have,ill go fab nine or 12 bolt moser and mini tub the bitch.personally ill stick to the IRS cause gforce is riping 9s with his,im sure i can as well.

herhttp://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...15/GTOrear.jpge u go this should fix it lol

Konis put it to the pavement for sure....I think the biggest factor in our launches is the Konis......I got mine from CincyPerformance...

Nice! thats probably one of the first things i'll do when i get back to the real world, i'll probably print this out and use it as my guide.

Sarge, what bushings did you replace in the rear? Anything particular that you recommend for the rear suspension set-up?

My plan is to get the suspension right this summer and collect engine parts so when winter comes I won't mind having her completely apart haha.

Rear sway bar link bushings
Rear Sub Frame Bushings
Rear sway bar to frame bushings
Rear Springs
Rear Shocks ( Koni Adjustables)
Diff Cover ( Harrop)

Is it neccessary to do both front and rear RR bushings? Thinking of buying all the parts a little at a time and just knock it out all at once.

Thanks Sarge!

Going to get a quote for the Whiteline Plus series from an authorized dealer down the road.....they specialize in subies but are willing to get parts for my GOAT which is cool.

By the way I was unable to find ANY domestic dealers for the Whiteline Plus components. Everyone that is an authorized dealer for them in the states specialize in Subie/Mitsi/Porshe.

I am going to find out what components are available to obtain through the US warehouses and will let everyone know how it goes. I'll keep y'all posted!

I used all Pedders. I never heard of WhiteLine Plus. Pedders been doing Holden's forever
and have the right stuff for our cars. Proper fit and load design is critical. Not just some poly bushing. But like I said I know jack shit about WhiteLine. I would make damn sure they have success with Holden's before I bought anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CamaroFan71

Is it neccessary to do both front and rear RR bushings? Thinking of buying all the parts a little at a time and just knock it out all at once.

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The fronts can be done with out doing the rears. The front RR bushes will give you a firmer brake feel. Many notice it immediately. The rears aka outer lower control arm bushes can be done later. If you do the outers, take a look at doing the inner LCA's while you're in there. Not necessarily needed, but it will take care of the LCA at one time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PartsGedder

The fronts can be done with out doing the rears. The front RR bushes will give you a firmer brake feel. Many notice it immediately. The rears aka outer lower control arm bushes can be done later. If you do the outers, take a look at doing the inner LCA's while you're in there. Not necessarily needed, but it will take care of the LCA at one time.

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Thanks for the reply. Im guessing I'll do a complete front end bushing re-do, then do the rear later. Since Im not doing the struts anytime soon, can you shoot me a parts list with prices for the front in a PM please?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CamaroFan71

Thanks for the reply. Im guessing I'll do a complete front end bushing re-do, then do the rear later. Since Im not doing the struts anytime soon, can you shoot me a parts list with prices for the front in a PM please?

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Thank You, PM sent.

Sarge plz..
how to contact u i need ur help would send me ur contact number.. i am from Oman GCC)Gulf Country)

Come back without some murdering coward as a user name and we can freely talk.

plz i need ur help on Pedders.. i am tirted i contact them since 1-2 months no one answered me the real answer..
i want to know is the price of the G8EXETREM Package is ok (2.9XX.00 $)
and i want to fix that one on my Lumina ss 2008 (commodore ss ve 2008).. i would like to be in-contact with u would u plz send me ur e-mail or Mobile No.
i am from Gulf (Oman) far away from u and no one helping us here i have a lot of my friends here and they asking about a lot of things>>Navigator, DVD Player... and so so many thing.
waiting thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maidi3000

plz i need ur help on Pedders.. i am tirted i contact them since 1-2 months no one answered me the real answer..
i want to know is the price of the G8EXETREM Package is ok (2.9XX.00 $)
and i want to fix that one on my Lumina ss 2008 (commodore ss ve 2008).. i would like to be in-contact with u would u plz send me ur e-mail or Mobile No.
i am from Gulf (Oman) far away from u and no one helping us here i have a lot of my friends here and they asking about a lot of things>>Navigator, DVD Player... and so so many thing.
waiting thanks

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Ok thanks for changing your user name. Hope you understand. It would be like me walking through Oman with a Star of David across my back. Probably piss a few people off and not very smart of me being so insensitive to others.
Back to your car.
What is it you are trying to do? Are you after a road racing application? What do you do with your car?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarge

I used all Pedders. I never heard of WhiteLine Plus. Pedders been doing Holden's forever
and have the right stuff for our cars. Proper fit and load design is critical. Not just some poly bushing. But like I said I know jack shit about WhiteLine. I would make damn sure they have success with Holden's before I bought anything.

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Sarge the Whiteline Plus components are the Noltec Suspensions link you provided in the beginning of this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarge

Come back without some murdering coward as a user name and we can freely talk.

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Hahahahahaha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 6.0LiterImportEater

Sarge the Whiteline Plus components are the Noltec Suspensions link you provided in the beginning of this thread.

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OK....

http://www.noltecsuspension.com/ link redirects you to http://www.whiteline.com.au/Plus/. This is the real company that is competing with Pedders in Australia. Noltec may have been their name but no more.

Okay so when i get back from the sandbox i want to replace my bushings. I was wondering if pedders will ship to APO? and what parts for the rear?
GTO EPC27 Front Sway Bar Bushings
GTO EP3451 Sway Bar Front Link Urethane Bushing
GTO EP9166 GTO Caster Adjustable Radius Rod Front Bushings

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EasyEp

Okay so when i get back from the sandbox i want to replace my bushings. I was wondering if pedders will ship to APO? and what parts for the rear?
GTO EPC27 Front Sway Bar Bushings
GTO EP3451 Sway Bar Front Link Urethane Bushing
GTO EP9166 GTO Caster Adjustable Radius Rod Front Bushings

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Thanks for asking about Pedders. As far as the rear, the EP1145 rear subframe bushes and and the EP1157 rear diff insert will firm up the rear of the car by getting rid of the oe rubber mounts and replacing them with urethane. After that the rear LCA's, sway bar end links and sway bar d bushes.

Look at getting the GTO Street I ($449.99), it's a great bang for the buck. You can also add the EP3451 ($25.89) and EPC 27 ($17.95).

If you have any more questions, you can contact me direct at [email protected]. When are you due back?

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Originally Posted by PartsGedder

Thanks for asking about Pedders. As far as the rear, the EP1145 rear subframe bushes and and the EP1157 rear diff insert will firm up the rear of the car by getting rid of the oe rubber mounts and replacing them with urethane. After that the rear LCA's, sway bar end links and sway bar d bushes.

Look at getting the GTO Street I ($449.99), it's a great bang for the buck. You can also add the EP3451 ($25.89) and EPC 27 ($17.95).

If you have any more questions, you can contact me direct at [email protected]. When are you due back?

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I should be back around the middle or end of july, i'm stationed in germany so thats why i was wondering about shipping to APO cause some places wont. Sounds good, i'll look into that street I. Kinda going crazy with all this stuff i want to do and not being able to touch my car.

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Originally Posted by EasyEp

I should be back around the middle or end of july, i'm stationed in germany so thats why i was wondering about shipping to APO cause some places wont. Sounds good, i'll look into that street I. Kinda going crazy with all this stuff i want to do and not being able to touch my car.

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I can work with an APO address, no problem. Let's work out what you need and want for the car and get the shipping worked out then. Is the car stateside or in Germany?

Shoot me an e-mail or PM so we can get into more detail and that way we're not taking Sarges thread too off track.

Cheers,
Dan
[email protected]

Hell I dont care...help the guy out man! :)

Thanks Sarge!

Dan,
the car is in germany at the moment. I would like to set the car up so i dont have to worry about anything. I want it to perform well and have a nice ride. I think i will get the Street I package and the other parts for the rear when i can. Thanks for taking time and helping out.

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Originally Posted by EasyEp

Dan,
the car is in germany at the moment. I would like to set the car up so i dont have to worry about anything. I want it to perform well and have a nice ride. I think i will get the Street I package and the other parts for the rear when i can. Thanks for taking time and helping out.

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No problem.

i tried to send an email to u Dan but... something wrong i would like to ask some Qs about Pedders coz i baught some parts of them and i want to make sure if i am in need for more parts to performe my car (stability on roads and take off)
Thanks

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Originally Posted by maidi3000

i tried to send an email to u Dan but... something wrong i would like to ask some Qs about Pedders coz i baught some parts of them and i want to make sure if i am in need for more parts to performe my car (stability on roads and take off)
Thanks

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[email protected]
Try this email. Which parts did you buy and what do you want the car to do? Have you done any other mods to the car?

i send u two emails from [email protected] check them plz
Thanks

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Originally Posted by maidi3000

i send u two emails from [email protected] check them plz
Thanks

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I'll check when I get into the office on Monday.
Dan

Ok I have a question here... I just bought a jack and some jack stands, and am waiting for some cash to flow in before I can order the RR Bushings. I can order the end link and sway bar bushings with what I have left, and was wondering if I should just wait till I have all the parts to throw it up in the air and toss 'em on. Basically what Im asking is, is there any kind of break in for these parts? I would imagine the RR bushings would be most likely to need adjustment, since the other parts dont have as many variables.
Thanks for the help! And any religious folk feel free to say a prayer to help my car from falling on me...

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Originally Posted by PatrizioD

Ok I have a question here... I just bought a jack and some jack stands, and am waiting for some cash to flow in before I can order the RR Bushings. I can order the end link and sway bar bushings with what I have left, and was wondering if I should just wait till I have all the parts to throw it up in the air and toss 'em on. Basically what Im asking is, is there any kind of break in for these parts? I would imagine the RR bushings would be most likely to need adjustment, since the other parts dont have as many variables.
Thanks for the help! And any religious folk feel free to say a prayer to help my car from falling on me...

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No Not at all, and as for the radius rod bushings there easy to install...Frank

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Originally Posted by PatrizioD

Ok I have a question here... I just bought a jack and some jack stands, and am waiting for some cash to flow in before I can order the RR Bushings. I can order the end link and sway bar bushings with what I have left, and was wondering if I should just wait till I have all the parts to throw it up in the air and toss 'em on. Basically what Im asking is, is there any kind of break in for these parts? I would imagine the RR bushings would be most likely to need adjustment, since the other parts dont have as many variables.
Thanks for the help! And any religious folk feel free to say a prayer to help my car from falling on me...

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The endlink and the sway bar bushes can be done before the RR bushes. The RR bushes are pretty straight forward, 5 nuts off, pull the old bush off, add the new washer, new bush on, remaining washers, 5 nuts on. No break in for any of the bits, just an alignemnt after the RR bushes are replaced is suggested.

BTW - prayer said for safety and extreme lack of gravity while you are under your car. Just be careful and wear safety glasses while your at it.

Fantastic. Ordering the parts from Wretched Motorsports up in Massachusetts, cant wait to get those POS factory bushings out of there. Also cant wait for my car to hold a !@#!$%#@ alignment for more than 3 days. Thanks again for the help!

Hey Patriziod;

I have been talking w/ Rob Anderson from Wrenched for the install of the next stage of bits for my suspension. HD strut mounts (after the story of yours), Adjustable radius rods for the front, lower arm adjustables for the rear, and some swank nonbushing swaybar links for the front. I am pumped about getting these bits installed. He still has my Harrop rear diff. I ordered from him a month ago, shit busy times. I am going to let him do the bushings and alignments. I will bring home the Harrop for a day project. Haven't been on this site in sometime, shit I took the silverproject out only one time so far this summer...and:dunno: she is tired of sleeping. Thanks Patriziod and Sarge for giving me better insight of our cars suspensions. I am hopeing to get a good shine on, get some pics and add them to the car porn in the showem post

Peace out my GTO hommes

Thanks for all the advice guys. Just got the Swaybar and Endlink bushings in, can tell they're primo-quality. As soon as the sun goes down I'm jacking the Goat up and throwing em in there. I'm gonna ask this now, even though I'll probably get the answer when I take apart the tock endlinks... The new bushings have a raised edge around the hole on each side, but one side is larger than the other... which way should these face? Thick rings towards each other, away from each other, both down, both up....

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Originally Posted by PatrizioD

Thanks for all the advice guys. Just got the Swaybar and Endlink bushings in, can tell they're primo-quality. As soon as the sun goes down I'm jacking the Goat up and throwing em in there. I'm gonna ask this now, even though I'll probably get the answer when I take apart the tock endlinks... The new bushings have a raised edge around the hole on each side, but one side is larger than the other... which way should these face? Thick rings towards each other, away from each other, both down, both up....

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Thick rings go towards each other and seat in the strut. Make sure the washers face away from (not cupped towards) the new bushes. No lube on the end link bushes.

Got the endlink bushings put in over the weekend, boy was that fun.:nana: I have to say, the hardest part was getting the car up on the jackstands with a too-short floor jack. That little bolt up top is quite the PITA to unscrew, but I think the worst of the Pedderizing is behind me. Figured Id post up this pic showing the bushings 'in action'. Looking at this picture, Im quite glad I made the upgrade.

Driver's side while parked with steering wheel turned all the way to the left.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...D/SDC11055.jpg

sarge, how did u get the strut bushing out?????

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Originally Posted by Sarge

On to the swaybar bushings and the end link bushings.
Pic of OEM swaybar bushings and the new pedders.....you can see the black factory bushing is a joke. Flimsy POS. The new Pedders is solid. By the way they are sitting on top of the POS factory Radius Rod bushing.

Here is what we are after....these pics are from the passenger side by the way....
Here is the swaybar bushing....see the copper bracket holding it in....

Now I started to take it off using a open end wrench....but that got old...so I opened the hood and you can get right to both of the nuts ...look down and there they are. I used a couple of extension and got after them. Came right off. Once you get the bushing bracket off...you need to break the swaybar loose.....break the end link from the swaybar here....You may need to jack up the control arm about an inch or two to let the swaybar come loose.....

Go ahead and pull the old swaybar bushing out...clean it up good....grease the inside of your new bushing and set it in there....retighten the bracket and nuts. I torqued them to 35lbs. Here is the new one installed....

Now remove the end link for its new bushings. You need a 16mm wrench for the top nut and a 14mm wrench to hold it while your taking the nut off. I measured the distance between the first washer and the end of the bolt so I could put it back the same distance.

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the first pic,:typer: mine is sticking up about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch off the wheel well

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Originally Posted by gagoat

the first pic,:typer: mine is sticking up about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch off the wheel well

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The first pic at the top is the sway bar d bush sitting on top of the OE radius rod bush. I think you mean the strut mount, correct?

Uh oh. I just noticed that my passenger side endlink bushing is missing the top cup-washer. I dont have the washer where I am right now, but I do NOT want that nut having straight contact with the bushing. Will I be alright putting in a regular washer over that until the new piece comes in? I dont plan on driving further than a mile from my house until its all set, but I imagine that any washer would be better than straight nut-to-bushing contact. Also, can I get a replacement at Home Depot or something? I could use the specs for the piece if possible. If not I guess Ill just order a new set.

I feel like such an idiot.

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Originally Posted by PatrizioD

Uh oh. I just noticed that my passenger side endlink bushing is missing the top cup-washer. I dont have the washer where I am right now, but I do NOT want that nut having straight contact with the bushing. Will I be alright putting in a regular washer over that until the new piece comes in? I dont plan on driving further than a mile from my house until its all set, but I imagine that any washer would be better than straight nut-to-bushing contact. Also, can I get a replacement at Home Depot or something? I could use the specs for the piece if possible. If not I guess Ill just order a new set.

I feel like such an idiot.

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ID of the washer is 11mm (7/16") , OD is 32mm (1-1/4") 1.7mm thick (1/16").
Flat washer is better than nothing. Are you missing just the washer?

Yeah, I just tore it down and put the washer in; checked it out and thats the only piece I'm missing. As I remember, I was installing at a friend's house when his father came out and starting talking politics. I must've been so heated that I lost my senses for a few seconds. Yet another reason Obama should stay out of the auto industry....

Thanks a bunch for the specs, is there a curvature degree or something, or should I just base it on visual? If I had another car I'd have taken the washer off the bottom and went to the store. Im waiting for my friend to get home from work to see if he found the piece, but based on his organizational skills its probably long gone.

Once again, thanks a ton for the help. My mind plays out worst-case scenarios, so I have visions of highway carnage burned into my brain.

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Originally Posted by PatrizioD

Yeah, I just tore it down and put the washer in; checked it out and thats the only piece I'm missing. As I remember, I was installing at a friend's house when his father came out and starting talking politics. I must've been so heated that I lost my senses for a few seconds. Yet another reason Obama should stay out of the auto industry....

Thanks a bunch for the specs, is there a curvature degree or something, or should I just base it on visual? If I had another car I'd have taken the washer off the bottom and went to the store. Im waiting for my friend to get home from work to see if he found the piece, but based on his organizational skills its probably long gone.

Once again, thanks a ton for the help. My mind plays out worst-case scenarios, so I have visions of highway carnage burned into my brain.

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pm sent

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Originally Posted by Sarge

OK...when you remove your original bushing you will have the radius rod sticking through a big hole in the frame. You put your big washer on first.Then your spacer (8mm/4mm etc) on. Then the bushing. Then the outer metal "brace" ( I use the sports setting).

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Im about to do this mod and I've been reading this over and over. Towards the beginning of the post you say it goes spacers, then big washer, then bushing (from the rear of the car forward). The above quoted post leads me to believe that the bushing will be smack up against the small spacer washers instead of the BIG washer.
http://wretchedms.com/images/EP9166-Exploded-800.png

I found this online, and I think it would be useful to add to this post.... as long as it's the right way to do it.
Sorry if it seems like I've got an OCD.

Edit: I just realized this is a .png file with a clear background, so if you're using the Black theme, the letters barely show up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PatrizioD

Im about to do this mod and I've been reading this over and over. Towards the beginning of the post you say it goes spacers, then big washer, then bushing (from the rear of the car forward). The above quoted post leads me to believe that the bushing will be smack up against the small spacer washers instead of the BIG washer.


I found this online, and I think it would be useful to add to this post.... as long as it's the right way to do it.
Sorry if it seems like I've got an OCD.

Edit: I just realized this is a .png file with a clear background, so if you're using the Black theme, the letters barely show up.

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That is the correct way. The small spacers (2, 4, or 8mm) go on first, then the bias washer (left side only), then the supplied large washer, bush, then the cupped washer, then any remaining spacers then finally the ny-lock nut and the 4 small nuts to the frame. Lightly grease the faces of the RR bush where the washers contact the bush. Grease the inside of the bush then insert the crush tube, then assemble as above. That's the only places you need the grease.

OCD is a good thing when your working on the suspension.

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Originally Posted by EasyEp

Dan,
the car is in germany at the moment. I would like to set the car up so i dont have to worry about anything. I want it to perform well and have a nice ride. I think i will get the Street I package and the other parts for the rear when i can. Thanks for taking time and helping out.

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Hey Easy, did you get back to Germany ok and how's your Goat coming along? Curious to see how it handles and compares to some of the German machines on the Autobahn. I'm kinda in the same boat as you except self inflicted. Home on vacation for one month but since I just got back to the sandbox I'll have to wait to rework the suspension next year.

I dig your posts Sarge and learning a lot. Was thinking about a Track 2 system but just out to keep her from drifting/darting on the road and in wind conditions. Goal is to at least get to BMW type handling but more is always better. Once I get suspension dialed in and new tires/rims then I'll figure out engine mods with either a twin turbo setup, maybe S/C. I like the turbo approach but would miss the exhaust note. Don't need to have car lifts installed in my shop to do this work but sure would make it much nicer.

Kudos to all of those posting here.

The front of the GTO can be done on jack stands, the sway bar may give you a little bit of work out though. Need to drop the front cradle down to get access to it. The rear is the same. It can be done on stands, but the lower control arms in the rear may pose a bit or trouble getting them back in place. Pry bars and patience will help you with these.

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Originally Posted by PartsGedder

The front of the GTO can be done on jack stands, the sway bar may give you a little bit of work out though. Need to drop the front cradle down to get access to it. The rear is the same. It can be done on stands, but the lower control arms in the rear may pose a bit or trouble getting them back in place. Pry bars and patience will help you with these.

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I'll need to read more about the front cradle but I'm guessing this is the frame that holds the engine to the body? Should already know this I reckon but then this is why I'm lookin'. Think I'll look at getting at least a 2 post for the job but I'll eventually need it anyway to do other work like body/frame seperation. Oh hey, what are the advantages (if any) for a novice to buy the rear alignment cradle? Thx

The front cradle does hold the engine to the body, but also holds the suspension bits as well. front cradle diag This is what I have for now for a diagram, but you'll get an idea what it is.

The rear alignment fixture comes if you are dropping the rear cradle of the car or replacing the subframe bushes or dropping the rear differential. These 3 mounting points are what hold the rear cradle in position. The cradle fixture is seated in the rear subframe / chassis & the rear cradle of the car using 4 locating pins on a jig / fixture. Once these pins are in place, the rear cradle is centered to the chassis. The rear diff bolts and the 2 rear subframe bolts are loosened in order to move the rear cradle in the alignment process. The exhaust is dropped first, then the fixture is worked into position. I've used it during installations to keep everything in line so it all gets bolted back together straight. I've had one car very close, but most required adjustment from the factory. The factory got them with in "spec", but not dead on.

Once the rear cradle is in alignment, move to the transmission. Look at the bolts holding it in place. Make sure they are centered in the flanges. Moving the trans a bit either way to get it centered will get the driveline straight (trans, drive shaft, rear cradle, rear diff).

Would I recommend buying the fixture? No. Do the work to the rear of the car and get it complete, then get a rear cradle alignment done, or try to borrow / rent / bribe the tool from a GM (Pontiac) garage, etc. Check a local Pontiac Dealer to see if they have one in stock in the tool bin. Chances are they do and may not know it. If you are going to be dropping the rear cradle often, then I'd look at one, but for a one time install, no.

Not sure why I didn't immediately reply to your post but thank you for this great info. COOL!

sarge, which co. in your opinion is the best one for heads and cam set-up.first choice patriot performance, second choice is texas speed and performance. same parts patriot is $100.00 cheaper, what do you think? bob v

Man I'll tell you I have gone through some head/cam setups. Gunner at Patriot has always been there and given me free setup/custom heads... access to engineering data...and they stand behind their stuff. Patriot is 2nd to nobody.

question,my 05 has an issue with wearing the inside of the front tires,how do I fix this?car has been lined up,still wore.

Strut rub....strut bushings and the above....use the Pedders alignment specs afterwards...

yeah i got a kit from pedders that is designed just for that tire rub