was doing some lowering springs and shocks on a 99 TA. figured i'd take some pics.
http://tredalign.com/shockreplacement.htm
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was doing some lowering springs and shocks on a 99 TA. figured i'd take some pics.
http://tredalign.com/shockreplacement.htm
Nice...
Uh, isnt that the same thing...?? I think you meant to say "lift the body from the suspension"...?Quote:
lift the car from the body
And in your last statment:
You might want to warn your readers; To me this was the worst part of the install, it took me like 2 hours per side to dremel the nuts off each shaft, :eeek: piece of cake after that...(you may want to mention how to get the nuts off too...?)Quote:
"With all 4th gen cars, this happens. Water gets up into the upper mount pocket and rusts the nuts to the shock stud."
good write up, other than those two suggestions...
uh, no. if you lift it from the suspension, the rear axle won't lower down. you put whatever you are going to use to lift the car, just as you would if you were changing a tire, on the body, not the suspension.
i'll have to look into that.
Great job Mrr23. What shocks/springs did you put on her? Is the ride alot harsher/firmer? (I ask because I am trying to decide what shocks/springs to go with)
Thanks
I wasnt saying your methodology of performing the task was incorrect, I was just saying the way your worded it sounds a lil off, to me anyway....but its kewl.
Ran into the rust issue VERY badly today.
So bad, we had to order a new strut boot for the car. The boot and strut were fused together.
I still have to see if I can save the strut...it has parts of the boot still on it. Should be able to cut it off with the dremel though and remove the rubber with heat.
i don't know of anyone it doesn't happen to. well maybe cars that never see inclimate weather.
i've had to use a torch and melt the nut then split it.
I have the nut off.
There is part of the entire strut boot fused to the strut.
http://www.arbybean.com/ar/images/strut1.JPG
http://www.arbybean.com/ar/images/strut2.JPG
http://www.arbybean.com/ar/images/strut3.JPG
is there a tourque setting for the rear shocks??
I go to solidly snug.
thanks, i think i could tackle this install myself, save some money,
thanks
greatwhitez28 come do mine after you do yours hahahaha!!!
^ hahahaha That was my plan! MUAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
that a boy LOL
All the fbody torque values you will never need...http://cofba.org/users/orion98/fbody.pdf
wooow grat to know, just saved tht list
thanks
Thanks ... Nice write-up link.
I'll be doing this real soon.
This will help save me a little grief.
I have purchased the SLP springs and Bilstein shocks for my 99 SS. Now the front shocks/struts do not come with the spring seats, and I have had an SLP rep tell me to transfer the originals from the DeCarbons I will be removing. Has anyone done this, and what tools/procedures do I need to use to get this done. Any info is greatly appreciated.
This is a sticky link from LS1.com
http://fla-thirdgen.org/shockreplacement.htm
You will be removing the front strut mounts and rubber isolaters.
I replaced my front strut mounts on both sides.
And for the rears you shouldn't need to take the rear interior apart.
There are places in the material where you will have flaps to access
the rear shock mount bolts.
Just lower the rear seat and you should see serrations in the carpet where
you can cut the material. You will see contoured molded foam underneath
the carpet. It will be covered by the back seats so you wont see the flaps.
This is useful for those that have adjustable shocks.
Thanks, and I appreciate the reply, but I have gone over this and other sites, and nothing describes removing the original spring seats from the front struts and mounting them on the new Bilsteins. I am talking about the seats or lower spring mount on the strut itself where the bottom of the front spring sets.
I see what you mean.
You need a spring compressor to compress the spring.
Once you have it compressed, you loosen the top shock nut.
That's what holds everything together. ( Remember those springs are under alot of tension. )
i intentionally left out how to remove the spring.
also, i showed how to remove the carpet for those not wanting to cut their carpet.
mrr23,
I didn't mean any disrepect.
I found the sticky very helpful.
I have adjustable shocks so the flaps work good for me.
Not to get off subject but are you the guy that did they
write-up on the Vinci and Crane programmer ?
.
So sounds like its common to have the upper boot get stuck on the stock strut. No one has figured out a good way to get it loose?
I am able to get the nut off, but the strut doesn't release the boot/mount...
Is there anywhere safe to heat the darn thing without melting any important rubber?
-Eagle
It seems a good amount of F body owners have issues with the
rusted nut syndrom.
I ended up replacing the upper strut mounts eventhough I was able
to get the nut off.
If my nut was rusted, I would have used a sawsall to cut the old
shock rod. While doing that, I would have used a good spring compressor.
Remember: rusted nuts lead to busted nuts.
I know this is a pretty old thread, but does anyone still have that torque .pdf? The link is dead now.
Thanks,
Matt
Yes, I'd like to get the torque specs too.
Do you need to compress front springs to get front shocks in?
No spring, just want to replace shock. So I do need to compress it? Grrrrrrr!
just so I am clear.
like it was discussed, i think, early, you lift the car so the weight is not on the suspension while doing this. I mean it makes since.
It sounds like the only place you use the spring compressor is the front? I'm not swapping springs, just replacing shocks/struts.
Ok, so where is the best place to get a new nut? I have a 99 w/ 101k on it, that nut will be beyond rusted, fused. Something you can find at Auto store, Hardware store?
does any one think this is really a 4.6 hour job, 3.2 front, 1.4 rear? Ok, don't count the time you spend on the rusted front nuts.
thanks
kool-aide
I'm going to do the front struts in a couple of weeks.
Where could i pick up replacement nuts for the rusted ones? Size? Grade? Etc?
thanks.
The car was in FL? Can't be that bad, you wanna talk about rust got to New England! The salt will corrode, rust and deform everything. Nuts may be ok(sounds perverted). No need to compress back, just front coil over. Don't forget alignment after!
yeah we do 3 year alignment package on our cars.
well if Mrr23's customer had rusted nuts, then guaranteed mine are two.
I figure why not buy a couple before I get started. At least this way I'm ready for the unknown.
Let us know how it goes!
okie dokie.
my projects are like most, 10 trips to the parts store in the middle of the night, :>.
correct.
correct.
when you buy new shocks, you get the nuts as well.
the rear should take less than 30 minutes. the front should take no more than 2 hours, unless the rusted nut becomes an issue.
yes. the front shock and spring are assembled together, just like a strut. here's a pic of them together
http://fla-thirdgen.org/images/shock...shockincar.JPG
ThanX
yeah i read the Haynes last night. Wow that is a lot of work. Mrr23 may say 2 hours cuz he's a pro. Me, 3.2 no way, i see 6 hours in my future and a lot of swearing.
Mrr23, thanks for the info on the nuts. Now all i need are the rental tools, woo whoo.
or pick a day to bring it by my shop.
Hopefully someone can help me. This is starting to get aggravating. What do I need to do to remove the upper control arm from the spindle. I have everything else off but I cannot get it to separate. Should I have the Lower control arm under a jack so that it has some of the tension relieved or just hanging. I've tried everything short of the tool listed in the chiltons guide which is a $200+ dollar rental. Any help is appreciated.
http://fla-thirdgen.org/images/shock...shockincar.JPG
i use a 10lb hammer and strike the upper control arm upward until the upper ball joint seperates from the spindle. a $10.00 ball joint seperator tool and a 10lb hammer works as well.
do not need the lower control arm supported.
haha.... I came back on to reply. I went and hit it with a hammer and it came right off. Now all I got to do is figure out which springs go on the front and which are for the rear. I got four new BMR's and two are quite a bit larger than the others.
Thanks!!!!
that's the easy part. the larger diameter go in the rear.
One more question while I got you mrr23. Should I worry about having any kind of gasket where the shock and spring meet? The old stuff has a rubber lining. On the new shock/spring it's going to be metal/metal and it has me concerned.
EDIT: NM... Once again the hammer shows me the way. Is there anything you can't do with the hammer ;)
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...69/Shocks3.jpg
Don't you love shiny new parts!
on the old shock, you'll see that hard plastic insert sitting in the perch. take it out and put it in the new one.
I definitely do. Taped up the new springs so I won't scratch em up, and the piece of shit Oreilly spring compressor is already broken. The design of it caused it to torque under the pressure and I couldn't loosen it. Needless to say it's ruined three hours after purchasing it...
Well, got the fronts all put back together. After screwing with that spring compressor for 30 min I took it to our local garage and 5 min later that had both the new fronts reassembled.
Only prob I had is on the passenger side top shock mounts the bolt won't go into the hole in the engine bay. I tried moving the other back so I know its not the bolt. I have 7 of the eight all torque'd down to spec, just can't get the one to fit into the hole. My next door neighbor told me to go get a tap and dye and it should be an easy fix. We'll see. Front stance looks damn good. Can't wait til the rear is done.
Well, just got it all wrapped up. Thanks to Mrr23 and Ntimid8er for all the advice. You guys are fantastic.
Before:
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...9/PICT0045.jpg
After with 1" drop: (It's filthy)
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...9/Lowered2.jpg
Nice!
dude one hot car, lucky you...
how it went, wow, let's just say i could never do this for real money.
I did the rear shocks in about, 2-2.5 hours. I took my time and moved like a snail for some reason. The rear is very easy, i was impressed how simple it is.
the front, goodness, slow doesn't describe my pace. I think I spent 14 or so hours. I would say 10 of those was just one side, with one pit stop for new end links.
I thought I was making good time by how the tear down went. Then I hit the rusted nuts. I think I spent close to four hours with a dremel on those freakin things. And about 1 hour on the first shock trying to figure out how to get the top mount off.
So i decided to do something you shouldn't, lol.. I slowly let the spring compressor out until the top went shooting out of the garage, lol... I followed the directions, never put your face in front or over the top, lol... Scared the crap out of my wife, lol... The first one didn't pop too much, didn't even leave the garage. The second one though. I almost dented my wifes car in the drive way, oops.
My tips for this install, have a good work bench and vice because a garage floor is uncomfortable and slow. Have better cutting tools because while a dremel is great, it is very slow. and don't start the project at 1 or 2 in the afternoon if your as slow as me, :).
And be prepared to break stuff. The nuts on my end links were rusted just as bad as the shocks. I may be in FL but we get lots of rain, and I go to the beach a few times a year. It may not be snow and salt, but it can still cause a ton of rust. I think every bolt or nut I have turned on my car so far has been a rusty nightmare. PB Blaster is good, but I bet A torch would work better, wish I had one or knew how to use one.
other than that, it was fun, way better than changing motor mounts, lol...
BTW, this is a great thread and sticky, thanks mrr23 and the rest of the guys.
Congrats on getting it done. Your method sounds a little scary, but no injuries so it's all good.
scary, lol...just holding a tool in my garage is scary.
Well, The dremel tool in that tight area can only do so much. I kept cutting and grinding until it was almost gone. I tried pounding it with a punch and hammer but it wouldn't budge.
So I figure what great force than the spring. I knew it would pop it off. I figured as long as the spring compressor was on it would on pop with the force of the shock. Well the last one I think popped with some spring force too considering it went half way down the drive way.
I tried the split the nut idea that mrr23 had, but i had so much damage I could get the nut to split. Every thing was just so fused that while cutting i swear it was welding itself together.
well, next time will be this weekend. I just found out late this afternoon one of the shock mounts broke. The inside tube spacer thing that keeps it from going to far down the shaft on the shock ripped out. So I have one bad mount and one questionable mount. I hope I am faster next time, lol...
The good news is no cutting or grinding this time. And I shouldn't have too much trouble getting the springs compressed and the old mounts off. The next help should be the end links. I noticed the guy at the shop got the shock off with out taking the end links off, damn Haynes manual.
I'm shooting for twice the shop manual time, so that puts me at 6.4 hours which crosses lunch so like 7 hours, 8 to get the tool rental. I'm hoping to do one on Friday and the other on Saturday, yeah right, lol...
oh no!!!:sillyme:
yep, and what really kills me. I'm not buying any more parts, so I don't get the benefit of new upper arms or anything while I'm in there. It's like another practice round, lol...
Well I have begun! Wish me luck :)
good luck. I think air tools would have made it go way faster. using regular hand tools to compress the spring is very slow, and gets tough on the fore arms.
Uncompressing the spring at the final leg on the car wasn't too bad. You just have to be aware you don't get much room. its, the lower bolts to the lower a-arm that always frustrate me.
Making a video of it. Just loosened tire lugs and all top mounting bolts. Jacking the car up in a few minutes. Then going on a road trip, so I'll be doing more tomorrow.
good luck, hope all goes well for you.
Got home early and pulled off pass side shock/spring assembly. Got it in spring compressor. I see what you all meant about the rust. Mine is not as bad, but it's still gonna be a pain to get that damper nut off. Are these the right torq specs; front shock: 2 bottom bolts/nuts @ 48 ft-lbs, 2 top bolts @ 37 ft-lbs, 2 top nuts @ 32 ft-lbs...sway bar/stabilizer bolt @ 17 ft-lbs...damper bolt 'snug' with thread loc...upper control arm castle nut @ 72 ft-lbs?
OK, got damper bolt off and shock will still not seperate from spring? Loosened spring compressor, no luck?
Ok, first, put the spring compressor back on.
The shock is fused to the shock mount. If you have that nut off from the top, there's about 1500lbs of pressure stored in that spring. If it just happens to let go... that shock mount assy is going to be one helluva projectile.
I had to cut my shocks off my springs. Sawzalled the shocks as I couldn't get them to seperate at all.
Please put the compressors back on there until the mount is removed... hate to see you injured.
-Eagle
you may want to examine that shock mount real good. My failed and I didn't know it. Then I had to buy new ones and replace a busted shock.
Funny, my shock mount popped off when I let the tension out. almost went all the way into the street on one, so yes, a lot of force in that spring.
I had to compress the spring really far, until I had like over an inch of the lower spring wobbling around. I lubed up the shock mount and just sat there twisting the night away until it was separated from the spring.
you may have to cut it off. that may be safer than what i didn't, letting it pop off, not a good idea at all.
OMG....What a fucking disaster! Got a sawzall to cut shock, but couldn't cut it at a safe point because the awful spring compressor was in the way and not able to compress enough. So I cut into the shock lower and got a spray full of oil in the face and all over. I was trying to save the shock mount and I knew it was coming so I had safety glasses and gloves etc... I never had such a fucking hard time even replacing struts on other cars. I think the county maintanance really did crap maintenance on this B4C. I've got a list of screw ups I found. Keep reading... Took 2 blades but I had to cut the top shock mount apart. I can't believe how fused the metal and plastic were, I think they used epoxy on it, this is unbelievable. I need to replace it. How long did it take to get from dealer? Also I need the plastic insert on the perch as there wasn't one! What a fucking day. Shock is apart though, BFD. I'm just disgusted. At this rate I'll have the record Koole-aid, and most unsafe work environment. Fuck this.
Damn bro, just take it to a shop next time. I tried messing with that shit, but a good spring compressor costs a fortune. After dicking around with it for an hour and having the first spring compressor fail, I took it to our local shop and it cost me $15 and less than 10 min for them to take both fronts apart and replace with new, shocks/springs. + I knew it was torq'd down right.
lol...Oh yeah, those things have inert gas under pressure in them, lol.. Look on the bright side, it can now safely be thrown away.
Man, I can feel your pain. If you re-use your OEM dust boots be sure to do every thing at once. There is nothing worse than messing with that darn spring compressor. And trust me don't re-use the shock mounts unless you are positive that are in good shape. Sounds like you won't be.
Yeah, the shop i go to has a big fancy wall mount spring compressor. Takes like two minute and looks like breeze on off, boom done deal.
no plastic perch mount thing, ouch that sucks. I don't even know where you get those, junk yard I guess.
my wife asked me last night if i felt my car appreciated all the work i put into it, lol...
I can safely say the two of us in the same shop would be an insurance nightmare, lol...
LOL. Autozone lent me the dam spring compressor for free. That's how good it is. I think I will be ok on the other side now that I know what to do...maybe :) I'm kinda glad I did it here because I need the shock mount, it is JUNK, and the perch insert was MIA. I know how they feel drilling for black gold. LOL. I know it is recommended to do 1 side at a time, but I might as well do the 2 at the same time while I wait for parts. And I need to check the other side for the parts. My car does not appreciate me, but it goes fast. Sometimes. No amount of insurance would be enuf!
Next time it will go to the shop Chuckie669, just need to make sure all the parts are there. Scary thing; 80% of shops I have taken it too have done damage or screwed things up. :(
The plot thickens.... spent over $300 on 2 shock mounts and other front suspension parts that won't be here till Monday! WTF!
wow what did you buy? I don't know about all of our sponsors but Summit is not too bad on somethings. I guess I'm lucky because my stuff comes from GA and takes 3 days at the most.
ever get that feeling some one high jacked this thread, :whistle:
lol....
OMG again! Can't get the spring compressor to work, tried everything! So I asked a friend of mine taking automotive classes to compress the shock & spring and put the nut on. The school spring compressor is broken. I go to Firestone and they would do it but there spring compressor is broken. They tell me Exxon next door has one. I go next door and they put it on the spring compressor and tell me they can't do it the nut will not go down on the threads. I call KYB and they tell me the nut has to go all the way down on the threads. I try it and they are right, it won't go far enough. Now the threads may be stripped or cross threaded? I doubt it, but maybe. I go to the Chevy dealership and drop it off. The service guy is telling me they might not be able to do it! The dealership! WTF! Has everyone in town gotten a call warning them that I am coming and don't help him? LOL! Finally one of the mechanics says he can do it to leave it with him and the service guy tells me to give him a few bucks, OK! Let's see what happens. I still have to do the other side! I think this is the end of the line for me and this car. Not because of the car, but because of the lack of competent shops. I'm in a friggin' wheel chair and I still have replaced brakes, rear shock, bolted on SFCs, plugs, radiator hoses, bellows, lid, MAF, exhaust work, fuel tank repair, etc... WTF!!!
wow, who did you piss off to have such bad luck. What spring compressor did you get from the parts store? Mine was the typically McPherson strut style. You can rent/buy from any parts store for like 55 bucks. It takes a long time to crank it down by hand, and the more compression the more it moves around. One thing I noticed on the instructions was to keep the bolts oiled. Considering how many times I used the tool, I can't imagine why you are having such a hard time. It will build pop eye arms, lol...
All I did was stick the shock in the vise, and work on it with a 3/4 socket and box wrench. I compressed until I could clearly see an inch or more of the spring left off that perch. After I had it loose from the shock mount. I would move it up and down making sure it bottomed out on the shock like it is supposed to without touching the perch, hence the inch or more gap between the perch and bottom spring.
I couldn't tell you how far the nut goes down, but I figure if all you hear is the dust boot smacking the top of the shock, that's as far as it goes, without breaking something, :).
good luck, sounds like you need a bunch, lol...
The spring compressor is a 2-piece; like two vises on each side of the spring. You have to tighten 2 bolts on each side. The 'hooks' that mount on the springs would not fit very high and the length of the rods on the spring compressor interfere with the perch or top shock mount. KYB said that nut HAS to go down to the bottom of the thread or the top of the shock will bend and the unit will fail over time. The aviation style nut will not go that far down, I am trying it on the other KYB shock I have. Something is NOT right. I wish I could post some pics!
yep, those are the kind. You have to crank them down a little at a time and keep alternating or you will hit the perch, and bend the crap out of the rods.
I did like 5-10 turns, switch, go back, etc. You eventually go from having like barely an inch of threaded rod sticking out the bottom to like half the thing going way past the perch. I wasn't kidding when I said it can take me like a hour and a half to compress and uncompress. My arms were killing me...
pics would be cool. The nut has to go all the way down, huh. The shock mount is a layer and that sucker will only go as far down as physically possible. Then what do you do with that funny piece that sits in the shock mount? That would certainly add a layer of not going all the way down.
Maybe mrr23 or some one will chime in. I don't see how the KYB shocks are any different than any other brand, including the ole De Carbons. I installed mine just like I took the factory ones off.
Now you got me worried as shit.... The shop I go to didn't say anything about them being in wrong either.
Sounds like we need an expert here, before i take out a passing car with a KYB shock shooting out the side, lol...
ok...after looking at the other shock and KYB shock next to each other - #1 the KYB IS shorter(got pics!), #2 the KYB guy was WRONG, there is no way to tighten over all the threads, even the damper nut on the stock shock was NOT all the way down. Amazing. Can't trust anyone. So what to do? Leave the nut where it is at, or tighten more? I think I will bring both shocks to dealership. Just when I thought I've seen the worst of it, there's more.
like I said, I tightened mine as best i could without stripping it. I don't see how any one else could do a better job. I would think an air tool would only damage the threads. I still have my old KYB. I'll take a pic of the damaged threads, and it wasn't me that did it.
I always hand tight nuts up and down to make sure there is good clean turn on the threads before torquing down.
If you think about the force in that spring versus the size of that nut. You will realize it is amazing it stays on at all. I hope it works out for you.
The shocks are at the dealership, hope they can figure it out. The damper nut on my shocks has a self-locking plastic insert, so you can't hand tighten it down the threads. I always heard they were called 'aviation nuts'. Thanks for listening to me rant! :) Wait till we attempt to put my torque converter in! :ughlaugh:
:threadjacked:
yeah, i vaguely remember the nut having the nylon stuff inside it. Yeah, normal nuts you flick them down like a kid. On the KYB I just did what I thought was right. The directions didn't call for anything special, heck, didn't say anything at all, lol....
They guy that tried to help me out until I could get replacements just said make sure the shock mount goes all the way down. And stops on the shaft like it is supposed to. I don't think it is as bad is you think. The gas discharge was, but I think you had the nut right on your own.
I guess I'm just the kind of guy that has never had good exp with dealerships of any brand. I've owned lots of different kinds of cars and come across a lot of slackers, both stealership and franchise shops. I have also met a few guys that seem to really care about cars and do a good job, funny those seem to be the guys that stay in one place for years, hmmm...
sorry, but i am still giggling over that gas discharge you had. Scary, but I'm just a giggler by nature, gets me in all sorts of trouble too.