eagle talon-- how fast are they

ok ill make this to the point. My brother has a talon and of course wanted to race. As far as he tells me he now has 25 psi and a 3" downpipe. Now i know your not going to just up the boost(dont even think the stock turbo could go more than 15psi) without all the other supporting mods like injectors,fuel pump,tuning and a few other things.. As far as i know it just has higher boost and a bigger downpipe. I know he didn't take it anywhere to have mods done ie bigger turbo and st, he just says he's got 25 psi and a bigger down pipe..


With that info what do you think he would run. As far as stock numbers for a talon they seem to be mid/upper 14's and i know they can be made quick as piss, but like every time i raced him in the past with his various cars he never had a chance and all he seen were my tail lights and i would like to keep it that way..:yup:

he 100000% cant be running 25 psi on stock everything with just a downpipe... i had a 90 tsi awd and i never went past 18 psi on 93, and i had a built motor and all the supporting mods (full exhaust, injectors, piggyback afc, bigger turbo etc) ... i think stock they are set at 11 and anything past 14 is dangerous

They are pretty quick. Is it awd? That will make a diff the first 60 ft. I dont think you will have a prob

plus, its a DSM so there is an apx 23% chance SOMETHING will break on all not so reliable 4g63 while racing :lol:

funny you say that, smoked the trans 2 weeks ago

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Originally Posted by LS1WS6

funny you say that, smoked the trans 2 weeks ago

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not so much funny as, a fact, those things are good engines, but they break down all the freakin time!

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Originally Posted by LS1WS6

ok ill make this to the point. My brother has a talon and of course wanted to race. As far as he tells me he now has 25 psi and a 3" downpipe. Now i know your not going to just up the boost(dont even think the stock turbo could go more than 15psi) without all the other supporting mods like injectors,fuel pump,tuning and a few other things.. As far as i know it just has higher boost and a bigger downpipe. I know he didn't take it anywhere to have mods done ie bigger turbo and st, he just says he's got 25 psi and a bigger down pipe..


With that info what do you think he would run. As far as stock numbers for a talon they seem to be mid/upper 14's and i know they can be made quick as piss, but like every time i raced him in the past with his various cars he never had a chance and all he seen were my tail lights and i would like to keep it that way..:yup:

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wow. a bigger down pipe. doesnt mean shit.

they will hit fuel cut at 16 psi on the stock setup. the fuel pump sucks and the injectors are small. plus the internally gated turbo's they came with are pretty darn small. you'd see 14 psi out of the stock turbo, 16 out of a 16g.

you will slaughter him. i would be suprised if he broke 13s, and i would be even more suprised if nothing broke on his way to 13s.

with 25psi he would have to be running a 20g or a 50 trim or somthing, there is no way that he would be running that with a 14b or t25 or even a 16g. He would also need an afc, injectors, fuel pump, and full exhaust. He would have to be extreamly ballsy if he is running that on a stock turbo.

And to the people who say they are unrelyable, they are that way because people buy them cheap beat the hell out of them and sell them. If taken care of and doing the normal matinance I have seen them go 150k with no real problems.

DSM POS will blow up before you even get the chance to run em.

there was a kid in my town who had a "400awhp tsi" that would smoke anything, he had it for two days and blew it up, the things are junk imo

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Originally Posted by riceslayer302

DSM POS will blow up before you even get the chance to run em.

there was a kid in my town who had a "400awhp tsi" that would smoke anything, he had it for two days and blew it up, the things are junk imo

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Have you ever herd of a guy named john shepard? He has a 7sec. daily driven TSI and he does what you are supposed to do and doesnt have any relibility problems with it.

The people who buy them, have them because they are cheap and fast, they dont care what happens to them because it only cost them 3000 bucks to have a 13 second car. thats my point.

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Originally Posted by andrew rs

with 25psi he would have to be running a 20g or a 50 trim or somthing, there is no way that he would be running that with a 14b or t25 or even a 16g. He would also need an afc, injectors, fuel pump, and full exhaust. He would have to be extreamly ballsy if he is running that on a stock turbo.

And to the people who say they are unrelyable, they are that way because people buy them cheap beat the hell out of them and sell them. If taken care of and doing the normal matinance I have seen them go 150k with no real problems.

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you can pull 20 pounds of boost out of a 16g with an accomodating fuel system.

i dont know what you have "seen" but i can only assume its been someone's car that you actually have seen or you read this, but they dont just go 150k with no problems. dsm vehicles are not quality. i had 130k on mine and it was plagued with problems. so unless you had one and know something i dont, i would have to disagree with that statement. you cant help a failing transfer case or crankwalk, and nothing you do would matter.

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Originally Posted by andrew rs

Have you ever herd of a guy named john shepard? He has a 7sec. daily driven TSI and he does what you are supposed to do and doesnt have any relibility problems with it.

The people who buy them, have them because they are cheap and fast, they dont care what happens to them because it only cost them 3000 bucks to have a 13 second car. thats my point.

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im sorry if i come off as a dick but john shepherd doesnt daily drive that car. infact he has a few track cars that do low low quarter miles but to say he drives a 7 second talon around is stretching it. maybe it CAN drive down the street but i doubt he does it. and that isnt even a valid point when you consider that he started with a shell and every piece of the car has been done over and replaced. he has only forged parts internally and the absolute strongest drivetrain and suspension components. your making it sound like he has a p.o.s that runs 7s.

here again people always cite the absolute best example of what a car runs. john shepherd is the definite exception, as not many have even come close to running those times as consistently as he has. talons dont do too much better than 12s and thats with a shit load of work put into them. the ones that run the 11s have a completely rebuild block and head, and usually are stroker motors with huge turbo systems. the overwhelming majority of talons one comes across on the street are breaking 13s.

here again people always cite the absolute best example of what a car runs. john shepherd is the definite exception, as not many have even come close to running those times as consistently as he has. talons dont do too much better than 12s and thats with a shit load of work put into them. the ones that run the 11s have a completely rebuild block and head, and usually are stroker motors with huge turbo systems. the overwhelming majority of talons one comes across on the street are breaking 13s.[/QUOTE]

this is what i want to hear. I didn't look at his car(it was 2am) but from him talking about 25psi and a new 3" downpipe i was :spit: but then again i was :ughlaugh: cause i wanted to be sure i would whip his ass to take the smirk off his face yet again. My dad and i are the gearheads, he works on cars too but he doesn't know enough to know what he is talking about

In theory he could turn the boost up to 25psi but on a stock turbo hes just going to be blowing hot air. The trick is more CFM not Psi. Also you can run more than 16psi without hitting fuel cut, it's just not going to be benificial to the car. Any more than 15psi on a 14B is a waste. If he is actually running all the extra boost the car is probably slower than it was before.

I had a 90 TSi AWD with a Big 16G @ 17psi, Full exhaust, upper intercooler piping, Walbro 255, a ported O2 housing and manifold. With that set up I could pull on LS1 powered cars in 2nd and 3rd gears.

I say the brother doesn't stand a chance.

Yes John Shepard does drive it to and from his shop 3or more days a week. He probibly is an exception but its true.

As for the relibility, I have a friend whos dad bought a 1991 talon tsi front wheel drive, he had it till josh was 16 then gave it to him, josh just sold it with 145k on the clock and he said he never had any major mechanical problems.

As for crank walk, that was only a huge problem for the late(95-99) SEVEN bolt motors, no Six bolt motor has that problem and most of the early seven bolts dont either.

You guys are probibly right, Im just stating facts that I personally know to be absolutely true

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Originally Posted by INeedLS1

In theory he could turn the boost up to 25psi but on a stock turbo hes just going to be blowing hot air. The trick is more CFM not Psi. Also you can run more than 16psi without hitting fuel cut, it's just not going to be benificial to the car. Any more than 15psi on a 14B is a waste. If he is actually running all the extra boost the car is probably slower than it was before.

I had a 90 TSi AWD with a Big 16G @ 17psi, Full exhaust, upper intercooler piping, Walbro 255, a ported O2 housing and manifold. With that set up I could pull on LS1 powered cars in 2nd and 3rd gears.

I say the brother doesn't stand a chance.

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actually on the stock setup you cannot run more than 16 psi before hitting fuel cut. when you hit fuel cut you hear a loud boom and the engine almost seems like it stalls for a second when their is way more air and not enough fuel and spark.

i too had a 90 but with a 16g and a walbro 190 and i only ran 17 psi on a rebuilt top end and a side intercooler. not very effecient but i ran low low 13s. i had no suspension and a stock clutch.

i got wore out by an intake/exhaust z28 when i had my eclipse and it was after that i decided to go back to my roots with muscle cars.

youre right about the waste of boost on the stock 14b though. thats for sure. i agree, they can be fast but they are shitboxes and alot of work is necessary. good reasoning.

http://us2.pixagogo.com/S5L5Ug!deI1H...Furious_18.jpg

"i live my life 10 seconds at a time..."

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Originally Posted by andrew rs

Yes John Shepard does drive it to and from his shop 3or more days a week. He probibly is an exception but its true.

As for the relibility, I have a friend whos dad bought a 1991 talon tsi front wheel drive, he had it till josh was 16 then gave it to him, josh just sold it with 145k on the clock and he said he never had any major mechanical problems.

As for crank walk, that was only a huge problem for the late(95-99) SEVEN bolt motors, no Six bolt motor has that problem and most of the early seven bolts dont either.

You guys are probibly right, Im just stating facts that I personally know to be absolutely true

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hey man, i know the difference between the 6 and 7 bolt cranks, i actually owned a dsm. they are junk.

also your buddies dad doesnt sound like he drove it into the ground nor did any modifications to it. like i said, mine had 130k on the clock but it was a tracked car while i had it and was always being modded and driven hard by me and the previous two owners.

as for john shepherd driving it to and from his shop, as i said earlier, that is very limited driving. i wouldnt consider that daily driven as it pertains to most every dd car.

case in point, a downpipe isnt supplementation for more boost, so even if 25 psi registers on the gauge it isnt really boosting 25 pounds of cooled and efficient boosted air. if the guy doesnt have a front mount intercooler it will be even worse to run that much boost with a basically stock car.

the ls1 will take this one im afraid.

I didnt say that the LS1 wouldnt win, nor am I taking the side of the talon. Im just trying to put out there those cars arent the shit boxes they are made out to be if you just take care of them and dont beat on them every time you get behind the wheel. As for the 3in down pipe it really doent even help him with the lack of a cat back, you need a turbo back to be efficent in that area.

And I agree about the 25psi, If you are boosting that much with a side mount you have to be mildly retarded. You need a FMIC if you are running that much boost on any car, not just a DSM.

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Originally Posted by andrew rs

I didnt say that the LS1 wouldnt win, nor am I taking the side of the talon. Im just trying to put out there those cars arent the shit boxes they are made out to be if you just take care of them and dont beat on them every time you get behind the wheel. As for the 3in down pipe it really doent even help him with the lack of a cat back, you need a turbo back to be efficent in that area.

And I agree about the 25psi, If you are boosting that much with a side mount you have to be mildly retarded. You need a FMIC if you are running that much boost on any car, not just a DSM.

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not saying you were bro, just putting things in perspective.:yay:

I just didnt want people to have the wrong perspective. Which most people do any way, but hey, I dont care. Other than the fact I might be getting one. But they are cheap to make quick, and if taken care of can be reliable.

i loved my dsm.... sooo much more fun than my ta... (dont worry i still love my TA more than anything)

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Originally Posted by derrinx

i loved my dsm.... sooo much more fun than my ta... (dont worry i still love my TA more than anything)

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shut up you fucking corner carver....:woot2:

My Talon had creep issues with my 14B after intalling my turboback and would start making up to 20psi during 3rd gear pulls without any fuel cut. I know what fuel cut is/feels like, anyone with a modded DSM is all too familar with it. Maybe my 255 helpped, but on cold nights my car would keep making boost until I let off. I eventually got a ported O2 housing with a dump and solved my creep problems.

My WS6 is way more fun to drive than my Talon. Nothing beats loads of low end torque and RWD. DSM's are fun cars though, but I hated how I had to have an unrealible, noisy, uncomforable pain in the ass car just to get it up to 350hp.

My buddy had a talon and it was hooked up enought to run right next to my Z, until his motor threw a rod.

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Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

shut up you fucking corner carver....:woot2:

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:typer: :burnout:

i miss those days

what a beautiful heap... just look at that manifold :love:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eagle...47220622QQrdZ1

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Originally Posted by Spaz

"i live my life 10 seconds at a time..."

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if it be by a inch or a mile :D

the best thing about the fast and the furious was how that eclipse in the begining was a non turbo, fake caliper covered drum braked, equipped 5spd that somehow shifted into 7th gear when he was giving the spurs to her at the beginging! :lol:

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Originally Posted by derrinx

what a beautiful heap... just look at that manifold :love:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eagle...47220622QQrdZ1

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hmmm.... the manifold... looks like Burn's mom sat on it and bent it all up...

derrinix what kind did you have? mods and what did it run?

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Originally Posted by LS1WS6

ok ill make this to the point. My brother has a talon and of course wanted to race. As far as he tells me he now has 25 psi and a 3" downpipe. Now i know your not going to just up the boost(dont even think the stock turbo could go more than 15psi) without all the other supporting mods like injectors,fuel pump,tuning and a few other things.. As far as i know it just has higher boost and a bigger downpipe. I know he didn't take it anywhere to have mods done ie bigger turbo and st, he just says he's got 25 psi and a bigger down pipe..


With that info what do you think he would run. As far as stock numbers for a talon they seem to be mid/upper 14's and i know they can be made quick as piss, but like every time i raced him in the past with his various cars he never had a chance and all he seen were my tail lights and i would like to keep it that way..:yup:

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My first race in an F-bod at the track was my 94 Z28 A4 (stock) vs a Talon AWD running 22 lbs of boost. I ran a 14.00 at 99 and he ran a 12.4 at 114 mph.

he lives in another state so i won't be seeing him any time soon but i know its going to come up again about racing. He's not saying he will kick my ass but has that "i'll take you" smirk. As far as other mods i doubt he has any and didn't mention anything other than he is running 25psi and had a 3" downpipe installed. Like i said before i think his intention of making a car fast is good but the ways he has gone about it in the past makes me think he is someone that just raised up the boost (don't know how he did it--biger turbo?-turbo timer--just don't know) added a bigger downpipe and now he thinks his car is fast when infact its probably slower cause he is maxing everything out with out supporting mods.

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Originally Posted by andrew rs

derrinix what kind did you have? mods and what did it run?

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1990 white tsi awd with 4 bolt rear. at the peak it had the following.. rebuilt motor bored 30 over with ross pistons and eagle rods, act 2600 clutch, full 3 inch exhaust, ported 2g manifold, 50 trim, cheap ebay fmic with full 2.5 inch piping, piggyback aem afc, 600 cc injectors, dsm link, 2g maf sensor, and a few others that i cant think of.. it was my friends and mine car (his legally but we both put money into it and worked on it together, and i drove it whenever i wanted to haha) never got it timed on the 50 trim or tuned for racegas but with the 16g it had for a few months it went a 12.4 (i think that was around 20 psi)... we couldnt get it to run right with the 50 trim though and eventually after every drivetrain component broke and had to be replaced (rear axles, xfer case 2 times, tranny was going downhill fast) we decided to part it out...
rip :)

Im thinking of buying a 1993 with a 6bolt swap and the 4bolt rear. Planning on a FMIC, 16g, 550 injectors, 2gmaf ported, full 3 inch turbo back(with cutout right afterdownpipe), and Apexi safc II or the new neo.

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Originally Posted by andrew rs

Im thinking of buying a 1993 with a 6bolt swap and the 4bolt rear. Planning on a FMIC, 16g, 550 injectors, 2gmaf ported, full 3 inch turbo back(with cutout right afterdownpipe), and Apexi safc II or the new neo.

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first thing id do with that setup is rebuild the transfer case and then the engine. do rods and pistons mainly. 16g is a great turbo for daily driveablity (funny when your tlaking about a DSM haha) and wont blow your block apart like an improperly tuned 60 trim. i really recommend dsm link... it was great keeps you aware of whats going on in your motor every second. never got into standalone afc but i hear for the moeny theyre the best thing you can do for the car... get a piggyback from aem, those are decent enough

ohh yeah obv an act clutch too..a 2600 is prolly all you'll need

just throwing this in for what its worth, I am good friends with a guy here that bought a 95 or so talon awd. put a 2.3 stroker kit bigger turbo full exhaust stand alone engine management and all the other supporting mods ( including a two story wing on the back lol) and the best he could do is 12.23 in the quarter. i say run him and see but you shouldn't have any problem.

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Originally Posted by dlmeadows

just throwing this in for what its worth, I am good friends with a guy here that bought a 95 or so talon awd. put a 2.3 stroker kit bigger turbo full exhaust stand alone engine management and all the other supporting mods ( including a two story wing on the back lol) and the best he could do is 12.23 in the quarter. i say run him and see but you shouldn't have any problem.

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That fool cant drive.

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Originally Posted by andrew rs

That fool cant drive.

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+1... or mod or tune...seriously...a built stroker he could be putting out over 400 at the crank easy

nah the guy has blew it up like 5 times. this time he did it right and only has it set to about 10psi or so. says he spent too damn much on it to fuck it up again lol

i dont know much about talons and eclipses, and i didnt read thru this thread...

to the original poster: im sure u got alot of help already, but heres just another .02:
my friend has an older supra runnin about 15psi and said if he ups the boost his fuel pump isnt able to work with it. hes at about 300hp (with some other work, actually about $4k in mods), and claims taht once he gets a new fuel pump he should be in the 400s, maybe 450hp at like 20-25 psi.

(i made the approximations cuz i forgot what he said exactly lol. those numbers are very close tho)