12.3 @ 109 possible on street tires?

well last sunday at the test and tune night i pull up in line next to a guy with a red 99 z28 that looks and sounds stock...it was an auto like mine..we were both running Eagle F1 street tires..when we lined up in our lanes i had a near perfect reaction time and he pulled about 3 CARS on me from the go and his car sounded stock and he was on street tires and ran a 12.3 @ 109 to my 12.8 @ 109....how is that possible i know there isnt much improvement in my driving....could it maybe be a stall? i know for sure he didnt have a cam because his car was way to quite

Stall and gears. Could he have been running nitrous?

most likely running the juice

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Originally Posted by Zboner

most likely running the juice

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yea but if he was on the juice he would have trapped much higher right?

i would assume, that would be a great time with a stall and gears though

He got a good launch (60 ft....forget the reaction time). You didn't. Thus the difference in ET.

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Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

He got a good launch (60 ft....forget the reaction time). You didn't. Thus the difference in ET.

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my 60" was 1.9 with a little spin..he didnt spin at all he was off immediatley..:zoom:

he had DR's

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Originally Posted by Zboner

he had DR's

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+ 1

Welcome to the world of getting beat by the bottle!!!!:itsok:

The trap speed doesn't have to be there he could of easily pedaled on the big end after he saw you in the rearview mirror......

i ran [email protected] on my stock goodyear eagles... with a m6. its all in seat time... thats what i found out. My et was 1.8something…

my time is 12.9 @109 with 2.73 gears 1.998 60

Higher the trap time means bad traction, the lower trap time mean better traction. Kinda nuts that he ran that much better then you with the same tires. No offense to you, but maybe you need practice on your launch. What was your 60ft?

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Originally Posted by NiteRiderWs6

my 60" was 1.9 with a little spin..he didnt spin at all he was off immediatley..:zoom:

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Maybe he was new, and let off a little to early. I am kind of stumped man. That is really messed up.

it was a nitrous car no doubt.. if he had gears and a high stall then he wouldnt have left you like he did right off the bat. not on street tires. I used to spin the hell outta nitto DRs with my stall and 373s at the track.

i have one of our first races on video...i ran a 13.2 spinning and he ran a 12.3 constantly...in the video it says 32.3 because the board was messed up but it was a 12.3 ill post it up.

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Originally Posted by lvlustang

Higher the trap time means bad traction, the lower trap time mean better traction. Kinda nuts that he ran that much better then you with the same tires. No offense to you, but maybe you need practice on your launch. What was your 60ft?

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i said trap SPEED! 109 to 109 trust me i am known here for my extremley good reaction times and launches...

I'm pretty sure he meant to say trap "speed", not trap "time". That said, a bit of spinning isn't going to make much of a difference. The bottom line is it is impossible to know what really happened and why without having actually been there and watching both run. Those that are absolutely sure that he had this, that, or the other simply don't know what they're talking about. They can't - they weren't there.

I do have a question - where is it that you are known for your "extremley good reaction times and launches"? With a stock converter, with an A4 car, you just stab the gas and steer. And reaction time would have had zero to do with the discrepancy in MPH.

The guy could also have been letting out of it on top due to track safety restrictions of running better than a 12.xx, which is probably most likely what happened

Neither NHRA & IHRA don't require extra safety equipment until you hit 11.49. He's way off of that.

He could easily be close to that if he had to let off.

ok so he was at the track this weekend. i asked him what all he had. he has a 4000 stall, kook headers and y-pipe, no passenger or rear seats, and a tune.

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Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

I'm pretty sure he meant to say trap "speed", not trap "time". That said, a bit of spinning isn't going to make much of a difference. The bottom line is it is impossible to know what really happened and why without having actually been there and watching both run. Those that are absolutely sure that he had this, that, or the other simply don't know what they're talking about. They can't - they weren't there.

I do have a question - where is it that you are known for your "extremley good reaction times and launches"? With a stock converter, with an A4 car, you just stab the gas and steer. And reaction time would have had zero to do with the discrepancy in MPH.

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no i dont just stab the gas i manually shift my car. and this is known because i can pull constant .006-.002 constantly

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Originally Posted by stevegrizzle

He could easily be close to that if he had to let off.

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Disagree. Letting off early will have a HUGE affect on MPH, but a very small affect on ET. Unless, of course, he let off at the 1/8th mile...but then the MPH would have been way, way lower.

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Originally Posted by NiteRiderWs6

no i dont just stab the gas i manually shift my car. and this is known because i can pull constant .006-.002 constantly

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Ok. You stab the gas and click the shifter forward twice at the exact same time. You got me.

yeah it sounds like he just got creamed on the 60'

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Originally Posted by NiteRiderWs6

well last sunday at the test and tune night i pull up in line next to a guy with a red 99 z28 that looks and sounds stock...it was an auto like mine..we were both running Eagle F1 street tires..when we lined up in our lanes i had a near perfect reaction time and he pulled about 3 CARS on me from the go and his car sounded stock and he was on street tires and ran a 12.3 @ 109 to my 12.8 @ 109....how is that possible i know there isnt much improvement in my driving....could it maybe be a stall? i know for sure he didnt have a cam because his car was way to quite

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Originally Posted by NiteRiderWs6

ok so he was at the track this weekend. i asked him what all he had. he has a 4000 stall, kook headers and y-pipe, no passenger or rear seats, and a tune.

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You stated that it sounded stock in your first description. If he has a stock cam and a 4000 convertor and NO bottle........ Sorry but he is not going to be running 12.30's on Eagle radials.:hellno:

And on him taking out the seats..... A 100 pounds of weight is ONLY worth .10 of a second

Next week when you see him call his BS card cause he handed it to you this weekend.

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Originally Posted by LS2Tuner

You stated that it sounded stock in your first description. If he has a stock cam and a 4000 convertor and NO bottle........ Sorry but he is not going to be running 12.30's on Eagle radials.:hellno:

And on him taking out the seats..... A 100 pounds of weight is ONLY worth .10 of a second

Next week when you see him call his BS card cause he handed it to you this weekend.

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yea his car sounds pretty stock ill have one of our first runs out of the 3 that we had on video....

Cool.... I'm ready to hear how loose his "4000 convertor" really is.

Also look under his car next time and see if there is subframe connectors and adjustable upper control arms.

Let me know.

heres a video of our second run..

i had some spin due to adding more tire pressure. so i ran 13.2 to his 12.3 sorry that video isnt that good and the site cut off the video before the end so u cant see our times.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/509873...s_stalled_z28/

KCIR....have good memories of that place...even if it was just one race. :)

He had you from the get-go, but as you said, the video quality just isn't good enough to tell much else.

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Originally Posted by NiteRiderWs6

heres a video of our second run..

i had some spin due to adding more tire pressure. so i ran 13.2 to his 12.3 sorry that video isnt that good and the site cut off the video before the end so u cant see our times.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/509873...s_stalled_z28/

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God I would be mad as hell at who ever was TRYING to record that pass!!:newbie: I hope that was the first time they filmed a pass at the track. Sorry I couldn't tell much of anything with that video.

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Originally Posted by LS2Tuner

God I would be mad as hell at who ever was TRYING to record that pass!!:newbie: I hope that was the first time they filmed a pass at the track. Sorry I couldn't tell much of anything with that video.

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lol it was my 13 year old brother....he goes well i didnt know if you wanted me to show you loosing lol:yup:

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Originally Posted by NiteRiderWs6

lol it was my 13 year old brother....he goes well i didnt know if you wanted me to show you loosing lol:yup:

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LOL..... :haha: ,:lmao: ,:chuckles:

Give him a tip and STAY AWAY FROM THE ZOOM!!
If you go into the menu on your camera turn the digital zoom off whenever you have :newbie:'s filming...... Your end up with MUCH better videos.

My son has a 2001 WS6. It has a Lid, headers/exhaust, Yank 4000, and a tune, with DRs. He runs 12.18 @ 109 with 1.60 60'. He did have to put another TQ arm on it. The other one bent. But its a stock one with a different bushing. Other than that he is stock. With a 125 shot he runs 11.20. You can go to www.need2speed.com go to wheelie picture on motor, and you can see the front tire off, on launch. He is 01_Ram-Air. So his times don't surprise me at all, being stock with only a converter. I am trying to keep up with my son in my GTO, but I think I'll have to use a little spray. What do you think? Gunny

You make similar power stock (pretty close to identical power). He should have a weight advantage, but with your mods, you have more power, so it should be a goor run....assuming equal traction.

Good luck! :)

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Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

Neither NHRA & IHRA don't require extra safety equipment until you hit 11.49. He's way off of that.

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Maybe he didn't know NHRA changed the rules from 11:99 or faster Roll Bar mandatory in '04 or '05 (can't find my rule books for those years) to 11:49.
I KNOW in 2003 it was 11:99. Regardless you really don't know what someone is running unless you know them or they are very honest. We have had 'debates' on here before about what some consider 'stock'. Some don't consider "legal stock" as "stock".

the 11.49 for a roll bar issue is for NA cars only, last i read. nitrous makes you go back to the 11.99 rule. convertibles are 12.99

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Originally Posted by Gunny's Goat

My son has a 2001 WS6. It has a Lid, headers/exhaust, Yank 4000, and a tune, with DRs. He runs 12.18 @ 109 with 1.60 60'. He did have to put another TQ arm on it. The other one bent. But its a stock one with a different bushing. Other than that he is stock. With a 125 shot he runs 11.20. You can go to www.need2speed.com go to wheelie picture on motor, and you can see the front tire off, on launch. He is 01_Ram-Air. So his times don't surprise me at all, being stock with only a converter. I am trying to keep up with my son in my GTO, but I think I'll have to use a little spray. What do you think? Gunny

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yeah, i know him. makes me jealous. less nitrous than me and close times. granted he has headers and higher stall tham me, but still. lucky boy of yours. i frequent need2speed as well.

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Originally Posted by GA Country Boy

Maybe he didn't know NHRA changed the rules from 11:99 or faster Roll Bar mandatory in '04 or '05 (can't find my rule books for those years) to 11:49.

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I suppose anything is possible (no matter how unlikely). However, based on my experience, his MPH/ET package doesn't reflect lifting.

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I KNOW in 2003 it was 11:99.

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Ok. That was 4 years ago.

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Regardless you really don't know what someone is running unless you know them or they are very honest. We have had 'debates' on here before about what some consider 'stock'. Some don't consider "legal stock" as "stock".

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Ok.

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Originally Posted by mrr23

the 11.49 for a roll bar issue is for NA cars only, last i read. nitrous makes you go back to the 11.99 rule. convertibles are 12.99

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I have never seen that in the NHRA rulebook. Please provide reference page and paragraph number.

I agree with traction. Your 60 ft time is were it is at. I ran 13.1@111 mph with a 2.2 60ft on street tires. Our track in Commerce is know for having horrible traction issues.

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Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
the 11.49 for a roll bar issue is for NA cars only, last i read. nitrous makes you go back to the 11.99 rule. convertibles are 12.99
Blkcloud: I have never seen that in the NHRA rulebook. Please provide reference page and paragraph number.

Actually about the only NHRA classes that allow Nitrous are ProMod, Funny Car
and Top Fuel and they ALL require Roll Cages regardless of ET and/or speed.
Nitrous is not legal in the usual 'street' car classes.

My friend, go to any NHRA track on any given street night and you will see MANY street cars running Nitrous. A whole bunch of them will be running 12s, 13s, even 14s without a bar - legally. Those that run 11.49 or faster are required to have a rollbar (in addition to other things, such as a jacket, 5 pt harness, etc). The NHRA has certain safety requirements for N2O (such as where and how the bottle is installed) - but nothing dealing with rollbars until you hit a certain ET (11.49 for hardtop cars) or a certain mph (130 or 135...can't remember which).

FYI, rollbars aren't the same as "roll cages". 5 pt rollbars are good to 10.00. A certified cage is required at 9.99. Going quicker than 7.50 (which is where Funny Car and Top Fuel would fall) requires even more.

BTW, this applies only to hardtop cars. Convertibles require a bar at a slower ET.

Nitrous is absolutely NOT allowed in Funny Car or Top Fuel.

Other than that, I agree with your entire post.

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Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

My friend, go to any NHRA track on any given street night and you will see MANY street cars running Nitrous. A whole bunch of them will be running 12s, 13s, even 14s without a bar - legally.

Nitrous is allowed in E.T. classes and A/PM ONLY. BUT many run a lot of stuff they probably shouldn't at "Test 'n Tune" nights.

Those that run 11.49 or faster are required to have a rollbar (in addition to other things, such as a jacket, 5 pt harness, etc). The NHRA has certain safety requirements for N2O (such as where and how the bottle is installed) - but nothing dealing with rollbars until you hit a certain ET (11.49 for hardtop cars) or a certain mph (130 or 135...can't remember which).

135mph

FYI, rollbars aren't the same as "roll cages". 5 pt rollbars are good to 10.00. A certified cage is required at 9.99. Going quicker than 7.50 (which is where Funny Car and Top Fuel would fall) requires even more.

BTW, this applies only to hardtop cars. Convertibles require a bar at a slower ET.

Roll Bars are mandatory in cars running 11:00 to 11:49
" " " " " Verts " 11:00 to 13:49
Roll Cages " " " cars " 10:99 or quicker (incl verts)
BUT there is an exception for full bodied cars with unaltered firewall, floor and body (from firewall rearward, wheeltubs permitted) running between 10:00 and 10:99 roll bar permitted in place of roll cage.

Nitrous is absolutely NOT allowed in Funny Car or Top Fuel.

I should have said: "Nitromethane and Methanol ONLY allowed" in those classes. Nitrous Oxide (N2O) is not the same as Nitromethane (CH3NO2).

Other than that, I agree with your entire post.

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Thanks for the corrections. It's always a little risky making blanket statements about so many classes and I should point out that my posting
ONLY refers to NHRA rules since I have no involvement with any other drag racing organization.

Just to clarify, "Test n Tune nights" do not fall under any 'class'. The safety rules thus fall into the ET range the car is running. There simply is no rule that states if you run N2O, you must have a rollbar.

Of course, whether or not a track aggresively enforces NHRA safety rules is a whole nuther topic all together. Many don't - and people get away with running a lot of...."junk".