Well lets hear it.
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Well lets hear it.
start with clutch, end with brakes.
well yea i guess ending with the brakes is a givin lol
This may sound like a dumb question, but how does one slow down using their clutch? I'm assuming that you mean downshifting to progressively lower gears, but I'm not 100% clear.
If my assumption is correct, then I always slow using the brakes and don't punch in the clutch until the moment engine starts to be overloaded from whatever gear I'm in.
Just brakes.
its pointless to use your transmission, down shifting does so much harm to your synchros, id be more than happy to take 5 mins and replace my pads then to pull my transmission out and rebuild it
Isnt that bad or somthing?Quote:
Originally Posted by my5thNewUsernameHere
Brakes, they are cheaper and easier to place than my clutch...:yup:
my rational exactly, tho i do know people that downshift i dont know whyQuote:
Originally Posted by SSwt00SS
:yup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Formula
clutch in always, when you're not on the gas, tho dont hold it in that wears on you throw out bearing, just push her in take her out of gear and let er out
cause downshifting actually shortens your over all breaking distance/time. downshifting (using the clutch) helps to use the engine as an additional 'brake' due to deceleration (result of engine, gear ratios/rear end, etc).
plus others out there downshift to hear the sound of their car. not sure why that is though :dunno:
well yea the backpressure sounds nice when you're lettin her out into second then first coming to a red, but i only do that once in a while or when i see another nice car, friends, or chick :)
REV MATCH!!!!! then down shift
Downshifting makes sense on long downhill passages, use the engine to keep the car from accelerating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSwt00SS
If you're not on a racetrack, shortening your braking distance doesn't mean anything.
I am NEVER at the limit of my brakes driving around town.
brakes are soo much cheaper and easier to replace......if im racing i just dont pull back out of gear to slow down.....say im in 4th at 5k rpms.......i just dont take it out of gear till im back down to 70 or so
if you rev match and use your engine to brake, you dont wear anything.
I brake however I feel like braking at the time.
I use both. I downshift when I am slowing quickly.
I tend to drive fast and liek the feeling that I am slowing quicker with the downshift and brakes. Plus, I do not have any kind of traction control or Anti-Skid.
When my dad taught me to drive a manual he told me to use the transmision whenever possible to slow down. He may be wrong, but I have never seen him be so in the past so...
I love the brakes on these cars, you can slow down so fast in these cars.
Reminds me of a story. One time my dad borrowed my car to run to town after parts. After he gets back me goes man that 6 speed is kinda tricky downshiftin huh? and I say well it is till you get used to it why? he says lets just say you ought to stay out of superior for a while. The next weekend we are drivin into town and there is a set of dual 6 foot black marks where the speed limit changes from 55 to 20. My dad just looks at me and goes i missed 4th from 6th and hit 2nd.
i rev match rpms on downshift and then use my brake when i have to... doesn't do shit to the clutch other than normal wear.. uses less breakss but guzzles some gas...
Decel uses no more gas than idling would.
that depends.... if you use a wall to stop your car... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Luos
tell that to the person after you just drove the nose of your car up the ass of their's, and see what their reaction is...:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
like you i am never at the limits of my brakes around town, however i can only speak for myself, not all the other asshats that drive cars. gotta be ready for anything, son...
Should be a third option of both zoso!
BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHA...wow, hope he pays for your rebuildQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel P.
its does not hurt your clutch, it hurts your synchros in the trans
NOT IF YOU REV MATCH, JUNIOR!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zboner
yea it does, learned that in transmission class. down shifting is bad unless you really need to do it
i thought you failed that class? :lmao:
had to quit working full time and going to school full time was to much.
trust me its not a joke
The only time you should need to under normal driving is if you have a heavy load and are going down a long steep hill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zboner
tell your transmission class instructor I banned him for sucking at downshifting if he burns up synchros downshifting
the choices should be
engine braking
or foot braking
Fred Flintstone? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 7camaro7
Probably if you get to a really slow speed. I could be wrong, but I believe that the owner's manual specifies that this is the correct way to stop with a standard tranny. Basically, the idea is to brake until the transmission starts to "fight" back at which point you disengage the gears and stop on brakes alone. In essence, you are using both the tranny and brakes to slow to a point, and then just brakes at a lower speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Formula
IMHO, if you're worried about excessive clutch/tranny wear due to stopping, just shift into neutral and stop using brakes alone. They will take on more wear, but your engine/etc. will ultimately take on less.
yeaQuote:
Originally Posted by my5thNewUsernameHere
You found my car!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by eddierox
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...t=downshifting
Quote:
Originally Posted by transam0486
Do you guys downshift when slowing down? If you do... how? and at what rpm? You cause more wear on the clutch the more you use it, right? When I downshift I tend to ease off the clutch slowly so i slow down more smoothly, but doesn't that cause more wear on the clutch than if you let off it quick? I read that dumping the clutch at a fairly high rpm isn't nearly as bad as "riding" the clutch or easing off it slowly.
Using this logic makes me question why we even downshift. Of course I'm talking about when you're decelerating, not accelerating . By not downshifting you're transferring more of the energy and wear it takes to slow down to the brakes, right? Wouldn't that make more sense?? Since brakes are cheap and easy to replace compared the clutch... Wouldn't this cause less wear and tear on the clutch... and the transmission for that matter?
Geeze some of you Americans have no idea about driving manual cars, lol
No serioiusly riding the clutch is BAD as a rule because it's basically slipping it which will case wear. This is up or down shifting.
HOWEVER the key to good driving is smoothness so dumping the clutch is not the best manoeuvre , plus if you do this when slowing down it can cause a lot of stress on the drivetrain and unsettle the car.
But the biggest thing with a manual is you can do most/much of the braking with the engine. This gives you far more control than an automatic. Hence ALL circuit and rally cars are always manual and never auto
So yes you should use the engine to brake. If you are driving quick cross country the you should use the brakes as little as possible because the engine will do the rest.
Heel and toe is a good technique, but difficult to perfect and in some cars near impossible due to pedal locations. But if you can "blip" the throttle between down shifts to match the revs then it won't unsettle the car, this allows a smoother faster transition and cornering ability.
Doing this will not damage the gearbox at all, it is common every day practice. Lorry drivers use this to great affect also as the brakes on a big rig are easy to over heat (least in years gone by).
4th to 2nd gear block changes are common as you can go from high speed to lower speed with plenty of control and enter a corner in the correct gear to accelarate out.
another bonus is fuel efficency. When an engine is coasting and down revving it won't be using any fuel. So by maximising downshifting and engine braking you can increase your mpg.
In my TR7 doing that on a daily 50 mile round commute to work and back I could increase my over all average MPG by 3mpg (24 to 27) which is a pretty big percentage.
__________________
For any that missed it - YES I'm from England. And YES I have a LS1.
I voted brakes, but I have an A4! :zoom: When I'm in a standard I use both.
I've managed to last so far without doing it... so I must be doing something right.Quote:
Originally Posted by SSwt00SS
Besides, reaction time + tires matter more than downshifting ever will. Once you're at the traction limit... downshifting does zero... zip... nada to help you slow down.
(And my cars can out-stop 90+% of all cars)
the traction limit can be reached at the front tires before it is reached at the rear tires thanks to unequal brake system bias, or the rear tires first in light trucks where a payload is assumed to be carried in the bed of the vehicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
downshifting with transmission layshaft speedup in mind can be useful if...someone... doesnt rely on his fancy slotted and drilled rotors and 4 piston calipers.
heh
Quote:
Originally Posted by third_shift|studios
:lmao:
I usually just use the brakes but I'm lazy.
It's still extremely weak compared to brakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Modulistic
I dunno know which way is better....although I'll usually downshift from 4th to third to get the initial slowing and then after 3rd, I just use breaks......
sometimes though like if I'm in a hurry or whatever I just use breaks :)
I utilize the Toyota Supra I just wasted...dragging them behind me for a few hundred feet...then I apply the brakes in a slow pumping motion for maximum efficiency. I hear Subaru's also drag very well. I dunno.
If it's a fine babe roll'n next to me of course I clutch it and my give it some rrr's as I pull my shades down and eyeball her.
Most of the time this tactic requires me to slam on my brakes before I 86 the mofo in front of me who all of a sudden wants to scam on my game by slowing down.
haha i believe this was started in one of my threads
inspired by http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41530
:)
Wow...
Modern cars don't need to be downshifted as a braking technique. Back in the day I used to downshift, double clutch, and brake in 1950s and 1960s tractors and trucks. You had to do it, especially with air brakes that would fail if you didn't. If you didn't double clutch nothing would go into gear either... But that is simply not necessary on reasonably modern passenger cars and consumer level trucks.
Just use the brakes and if you need to shift to maintain speed or whatever just do it. Brakes are less expensive than clutches.
I do have to downshift in my Camaro as I have a manual valve body automatic. I also have to have enough line pressure so I don't blow it. It is not an easy car to drive on the street.
literally made me LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by eddierox
as the great homer simpson would say... whoo-hoo!Quote:
Originally Posted by ss~zoso~ss
Guess. I had to replace my back brake pads at about 45K and the front ones have 79K and aren't worn out yet. When you live out side of town like I do and have plenty of time and space to plan stops, you almost don't need to use brakes at all. And NO, there isn't any wear on the synchros if you match rpms. I had to learn how to do this when I drove a semi-they don't have any synchros, you know.
I am always looking to go from point A to point B without stopping. So when I am behind someone at a light, I try to never stop, so naturally I am downshifting to keep myself in the right gear and therefor I rarely use the brakes. Your not wasting any gas. Save your brakes for when you really need them. I never ever consider shifting to be a choir. I never get tired of it. Most people that don't downshift are just lazy and they might as well be driving an automatic.
I am always ready to stomp on the gas, so I will always be ahead of you, cause I'm always in the right gear.
You use less gas slowing down then when the car is idling.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Spaz
when i was first starting, i used brakes only. but after being Motor T, and downshifting for the big trucks, it's just became a habit. so i 98% of the time downshift. unless i just get done with Leg day at the gym.
My father taught me to always downshift when braking. He has been a mechanic for over 30 yrs. :Poke:
Instructions
STEP 1: Begin braking with your right foot as you approach the corner. Use the ball of your foot to apply pressure to the brake pedal. This provide the optimal brake pressure since the ball of your foot is aligned with you knee. STEP 2: Placing the ball of your foot in the center of the brake pedal will allow the right side of your foot to hang off the brake pedal and be closer to the gas pedal. This will be important for the next few steps. STEP 3: Press in the clutch pedal with your left foot. STEP 4: While still applying pressure to the brake pedal with your right foot, roll your foot to the right so that you touch the gas pedal. Use the outside edge of your right foot to press and release or “blip” the throttle. This will briefly raise the engine’s RPM to match the speed of the wheels and ensure a smooth shift. Only practice will help you figure out the precise amount of throttle blip required in your car, but you can try between 1,000 to 2,000 RPM to downshift a single gear. STEP 5: Move the shift lever into the gear that you want to select. This is usually one gear lower that the gear you were in prior to braking. STEP 6: Let out the clutch with your left foot. STEP 7: Take your right foot off the brake and turn into the corner. Accelerate smoothly out of the corne
na na na u floor the gas and dump the clutch and drift out of the corner nice and smooth :)
i said rev matching...Quote:
Originally Posted by 9t8z28
Basically your downshifting. After you let the clutch out, you are using less gas!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Spaz
I don't use the clutch to slow me down. Thats a good way to wear it out quickly.
I rev match into each gear as I'm slowing down, and when I want to stop, I apply the brakes. That way the clutch doesn't wear, the engine slows me down, and I don't have to ride the brakes :)
double clutch rev match downshift.
What are you double clutching?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldladykiller
what, should i not DC?Quote:
Originally Posted by 9t8z28
It all depends on what your driving!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldladykiller
mmm i just hear its easier on the synchros and what not. i dont have a manual car right now so i cant be specific on what i am DCing.
Don't double clutch a newer passenger vehicle. It is not required and disengaging/engaging the clutch twice as often is simply not good to do on an ongoing basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldladykiller
If you are an idiot and use the synchros to bring the input shaft/engine up to speed, then yes it does a lot a damage to the synchros. If you double clutch, i.e. clutch in --> neutral---> clutch out ---> rev match ---> clutch in ---> grab gear ---> clutch out then the abuse to the synchros is similar to upshifting. In otherwords minimal. If you just clutch in ---> rev match ---> downshift ---> clutch out at least you are just using the synchros to bring the input shaft up to speed. If you dont rev match at all you deserve to fry your transmission.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zboner
Unless I dont have time (coming into a turn fast) or I am trying to save time (come into a turn faster than i can double clutch) I NEVER rely on the synchros to pick up the slack.
BC
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnthub
How do you figure? that clutch will last a lot longer than stock synchros will in almost any manual transmission you find on the market today. A new clutch is a lot easier and cheaper to replace than synchros are.
Just like brake pads are a lot cheaper and easier to replace than your clutch is.
In other words, despite my above post, its easier on your car to use your brakes. If you are like me and you like to be in gear as you approach a stop in case you need to move, then double clutching is the best way to minimize as much wear on your transmission as you can.
BC
i pretty much always engine brake first and then use the brakes.
Same here, except I have an auto, so after shifting into park at 60mph and leaving my trannys insides on the road behind me, I use the brakes to slow the last bit from 20mph to a stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MileCrash
not completely...Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldladykiller
all you people kill me with your double clutching and downshifting when there is no need for it, therfore i laugh at you :lol: BRAKES ARE CHEAPER THAN CLUTCHES to replace!!!
but hey if you care to replace you clutch many times over and get better at doing so over time (for having to do it so frequently), they by all means go for it. also, why not add to it transmission rebuilds since when you downshift you put added stress and strain on all the moving components on the drivetrain.
also the whole REV MATCH is being talked about because of the un-necessary need to continue to downshift. how many of you downshift all the way to 1st gear in order to stop? do you have any clue how much force and load you are putting on your drivetrain for no reason? it's just plain stupid to do that. :slap:
chances are you are all the same people who sit there at the stop light with the pedal to the floor, causing un-necessary wear on your throwout bearing, clutch disc, and pressure plate. think about it people, the only thing that is keeping your flywheel from continuously wearing down your clutch disc is a FEW THOUSANDTHS OF AN INCH!!!, but an uneven surface, installtion, or whatever will cause the glazing of your clutch disc but im sure all you 'experts' know that...:rock:
Brakes are made to stop the car, (slowing with gears also put alot more heat into the tranny) gears are made to make it go. Unless of course you road race, but then winning is what you are after. Making the components last a long time becomes secondary. Slowing with the clutch can be very hard on U joints and differentials. It aslo can induce ''wheel hop" if done improperly.
:dunno: i rev match... i've noticed no difference in driveline/clutch/syrncro ect ect wear at all... i'm an X truck driver... fuck double clutching... who ever does that that is not atleast 40+ years old has no idea what they are talking about...Quote:
Originally Posted by SSwt00SS
Pretty much what I was going to say. The syncros are there for a reason, rev matching downshifts is fine for the trans/clutch in everyday driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaz
Guys, I think the main point here is that its much easier braking with the engine on a standard car than an automatic one.
:think: who would try that with an auto?Quote:
Originally Posted by 86 IROC-Z
Read post 72Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaz
:eek: if i had auto i'd only use breaks...Quote:
Originally Posted by 86 IROC-Z
:lmao: I post so much bullshit and you guys don''t even notice :rotfl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaz
Sometimes brakes are cheaper than clutches. Plus drilled and slotted rotors stop better yes but the also do alot more damage to the pads when used. So i use downshifting then brakes at the end. I would go through pads every month if i used my brakes all the time. My pads arent thet cheap, my calipers are much larger than stock.
As far as messing up the tranny on down shifting i have had 3 stick cars downshifted all of them. Never had one problem.
i was giong to ask how you went in to park...Quote:
Originally Posted by 86 IROC-Z
Most of my driving is highway, so I get good service out of my brakes on all my cars. My TA has 73000 and has the original brakes and clutch:fire:
i also use a combo of both. but the downshift is highly preferd when radar gives an alert, braking is too obvious in this situation. damn higway patrol on 95...esp in virginia are bunch of bastards.
The clutch and tranny are more than strong enough to handle proper downshifting and still have a very long service life. There's no reason to be replacing brake pads every 50k miles on a manual car.
^agreed
I use my e-brake that way I don't put any wear on my regular brakes or my clutch.
No really tho I use the clutch and the brakes. Why? Cuz I like making noise bitches!
I use both. I think my synchros might be getting worn out though. ?? Its getting kind of hard to downshift into 5th and 2nd. upshifting is just fine though.
If I'm going really fast, then I just push the clutch in and use the brakes. If I'm already going slow like in heavy traffic or down a hill I just stay in low gears but still when I have to stop I just put the clutch in and use the brakes. Brakes are just a tad bit cheaper and easier to replace:yup:
I use the appropriate gear for the conditions. That means upshifting and downshifting, constantly. The car is made to do that.
Should've been a answer for combo........I use both together.
brakes, alot easier to change :yup:
On my bike I use both at the same time.. You just do a quick rev match while down shifting and holding the front brakes. Just a litte trick keith code showed me. :)
What do you guys use to get out of cruise control? Pushing the clutch in the thing revs high for a second wich I hate, so now I just use brakes to kill cruise control. For normal driving I use the brakes.
Something worse than using clutch for brakes, when I go to motocross track, I often hear people using the clutch for the gas! They hold throttle wide open and change speed by feathering the clutch..
Don't push the clutch to the floor, just blip it as lightly as you can. It should still disengage the cruise control, without actually disengaging the clutch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smkn_TA
I do not have cruise control.
If I am approaching traffic and can tell the pace of traffic, I will down shift and only use the brake when I need to slow quicker.
I prefer to pay 100 bucks for new brakes instead of 800 for a tranny rebuild.
I'll grab a higher gear when I need to stop quickly in traffic matching the revs keeping my eye on the guy behind me...
My drive to and from work is expressway - so if I need to, its usually 6 to 4 to 2 if needed. I've never had the ABS kick in.
When in traffic I use the gear box, but I try to time traffic meaning I don't need the clutch to get out of the higher gear and will clutch to get it into the lower gear - usually playing between 2, 3 & 4.
