Hello,
After some advice on what I should replace/ upgrade to build a stronger 4L60E
to handle 500rwhp.
Cheers
Les
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Hello,
After some advice on what I should replace/ upgrade to build a stronger 4L60E
to handle 500rwhp.
Cheers
Les
checkout jasperengines.com
i bought my tranny from them, but if you wanna go over what they did id suggest to just copy their modifications, bcuz they give a warranty and itll be voided if you open up your trans.
I have to replace mine also. I've been hearing talk about a lot of high horsepower cars switching to the Turbo 400. Supposedly cheaper, a lot stronger, and it pretty much just bolts right in. What do you think?
my car shifts like it is its job, like it should! High performance motor-why not a high performance transmission? It only makes sense. Here's the basic modifications done to it (although mine is a class 1 and has high alto clutches, increased line pressure, and better servos and pins than the corvettes...i think theres more to it but w/e)
4L60E Product Updates
SHIFT CONCERN UPDATES
1) New boost valve and sleeve are installed in the transmission pump
to prevent slippage under heavy throttle and delayed reverse
engagement.
2) To also help prevent slow reverse engagement the low/reverse
checkball is removed since this part is prone to wear leading to
reverse engagement issues.
3) Modified pump slide with spacer are used to apply more consistent
pressure which in turn prevents gear slippage.
4) All individual valve body circuits are tested for accuracy and
pressure. This testing ensures that proper pressure is achieved to
prevent slipped clutches, 2-4 band failure and soft lock up which can
be caused by inproper pressures.
5) The TCC Control Valve, TCC Regulator valve and the Actuator Feed
Limit are replaced and the bores are reamed because these high wear
areas can lead to shifting problems as well as soft or no lock up
conditions.
6) The forward and reverse abuse plugs in the valve body are replaced
to prevent cross leaks that can lead to delayed reverse engagement,
3-2 shift tie up and 3-4 clutch failure.
7) New Pressure Switch Manifold is installed because this part cannot
be properly cleaned. This part ensure no wrong gear starts, and
delayed engagements.
8) New Pressure Contol Selonoids are used to prevent high or low
pressure issues which can lead to harsh or soft shifts.
QUALITY & DURABILITY UPDATES
1) The latest design sun shell is installed. This design is more
durable than the original design which could sometimes break and lead
to no reverse or loss of 2nd or 4th gear.
2) The return springs in the 3-4 clutch are removed and the exhaust
port in the separator plate is enlarged which helps prevent 3-4 clutch
failure.
3) The torque converter is remanufactured using a state-of-the-art
converter aligner/welder which holds converter runout to even tighter
tolerances than OE. This prevents pump bushing wear and front seal
leaks caused by converter vibration.
4) High energy 2-4 band is used which absorbs more heat and has
greater durability than a standard band.
5) High energy 3-4 clutch pack and increased lined clutch and steel
plates (from 6 to 7) are used for increased torque capacity which
prevents premature clutch failure.
6) Aluminum 1-2 accumulator pistons are used instead of the OE
plastic pistons which were prone to breaking. This stronger piston
prevents piston breaking which can cause low fluid pressure and burnt
clutches.
7) All new pump and case bushings are used which helps prevent loss
of fluid pressure and in turn clutch failure.
my car shifts like it is its job, like it should! High performance motor-why not a high performance transmission? It only makes sense. Here's the basic modifications done to it (although mine is a class 1 and has high alto clutches, increased line pressure, and better servos and pins than the corvettes...i think theres more to it but w/e)
4L60E Product Updates
SHIFT CONCERN UPDATES
1) New boost valve and sleeve are installed in the transmission pump
to prevent slippage under heavy throttle and delayed reverse
engagement.
2) To also help prevent slow reverse engagement the low/reverse
checkball is removed since this part is prone to wear leading to
reverse engagement issues.
3) Modified pump slide with spacer are used to apply more consistent
pressure which in turn prevents gear slippage.
4) All individual valve body circuits are tested for accuracy and
pressure. This testing ensures that proper pressure is achieved to
prevent slipped clutches, 2-4 band failure and soft lock up which can
be caused by inproper pressures.
5) The TCC Control Valve, TCC Regulator valve and the Actuator Feed
Limit are replaced and the bores are reamed because these high wear
areas can lead to shifting problems as well as soft or no lock up
conditions.
6) The forward and reverse abuse plugs in the valve body are replaced
to prevent cross leaks that can lead to delayed reverse engagement,
3-2 shift tie up and 3-4 clutch failure.
7) New Pressure Switch Manifold is installed because this part cannot
be properly cleaned. This part ensure no wrong gear starts, and
delayed engagements.
8) New Pressure Contol Selonoids are used to prevent high or low
pressure issues which can lead to harsh or soft shifts.
QUALITY & DURABILITY UPDATES
1) The latest design sun shell is installed. This design is more
durable than the original design which could sometimes break and lead
to no reverse or loss of 2nd or 4th gear.
2) The return springs in the 3-4 clutch are removed and the exhaust
port in the separator plate is enlarged which helps prevent 3-4 clutch
failure.
3) The torque converter is remanufactured using a state-of-the-art
converter aligner/welder which holds converter runout to even tighter
tolerances than OE. This prevents pump bushing wear and front seal
leaks caused by converter vibration.
4) High energy 2-4 band is used which absorbs more heat and has
greater durability than a standard band.
5) High energy 3-4 clutch pack and increased lined clutch and steel
plates (from 6 to 7) are used for increased torque capacity which
prevents premature clutch failure.
6) Aluminum 1-2 accumulator pistons are used instead of the OE
plastic pistons which were prone to breaking. This stronger piston
prevents piston breaking which can cause low fluid pressure and burnt
clutches.
7) All new pump and case bushings are used which helps prevent loss
of fluid pressure and in turn clutch failure.
keep in mind this is after it is remanufactured-NOT rebuilt
damn it i always do that
Mine basically has all the same stuff, but with near 500 hp at the wheels, it tore ALL apart!! I put a factory tranny w/ a shift kit in it this past weekend and factory stall:( just to cruise around on weekends, but I need something different for sure! I priced how much it would cost to get the 4L60 up to par, and it was $2000 just for parts. That's supposedly bullet-proof, but I have yet to see a race car at the track with a 4l60, which tells me something. It was a good tranny for a medium modded car though!
The 400 is dam near bullet proof but gearing is alot different. also all the electronics would be different. and 400 you would have no overdrive gas where i live hitting $3.00 a gallon.
theres a good sun shell called the "beast" for 4l60e also can use the 4l65e five gear plantnets i would also beat a check ball into 3-4 accumulater feed hole and if going to take the check ball out of low reverse feed i would drill a .030 hole in rear piston.... rpms over 5000 you may want to drill small hole in 3-4 drum so it doesnt centrifically<-?? push 3-4 piston burning up 3-4 cluthes.
So far my FLP Level IV tranny has been holding up.
I recently got my trans rebuilt, and I had the "beast" reaction shell and a five gear planetery. Looking at the stock vs these pieces you can definately tell a difference in strenght. Also, a couple pieces were welded together and alot of the holes were drilled out for increase flow.Quote:
Originally Posted by chadsawask
A really good website that explains a lot of stuff about what the parts do and how much they cost is :
www.eatmyshifts.com
They appear to sell some really strong parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBowtie
I don't doubt you blew your tranny but I saw your car at humperdinks, 500rwhp out of a N/A LT1 without nitrous I call :bs:
Eh...its somewhat expensive but I personally think its well worth it and it comes with just about everything you need.
http://speed-eng.com/store/product_i...oducts_id=7772
JASPERENGINES.COM
3 YEAR Warranty/36000 miles
Get the class 1 performance trans ordered and you'll love it, only thing is you cannot modify or open it or else you void the warranty. Doesn't come with a high-stall TC either because they claim they damage things easily.
Thanks myk02k
screw it man, just built mine again for a 400 hp car for the third time in a year, get a 6 speed and be done with it
So I'm a liar, huh? You got a big mouth! Just b/c you don't know how to build a car right, doesn't mean it can't be done. I didn't have my nitrous on the car the night you saw it, but I never said I didn't have one. I'll be at Red Line Raceway this weekend - bring cash!! By the way, 400hp on the 355 c.i. motor at the wheels, and I just put my nitrous kit back on. I'll race you off the juice, and so it's not as embarrassing for ya, I'll tie a rope from the back of my car to the front of yours and drag you down the track. There should also be an LT there has well over 500hp at the wheels N/A, his car spanks my daily driver set-up!! High school boys talk about dyno sheets, men talk about timeslips.Quote:
Originally Posted by urinal mint
ok lets talk time slips, lets see scans of yours. And don't go saying I don't have one or the only one I have was when my car was stock...Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBowtie
Scan a driveslip - whatever! Let's see how this goes, I post one, then you say it's fake, blah blah blah. What time do you want it to say, I have photoshop like everybody else. Again, I'm at the track just about every weekend, so come whenever and then we'll talk timeslips. I must say though, being that you have 2 posts and they have both been to talk trash to me, I feel special!Quote:
Originally Posted by urinal mint
I was at redline this weekend, I didn't see your car :thinkin:Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBowtie
damn urinal mint, you have 3 posts on this board, with all three in this very thread.
if it where me i would ditch the 4l60e for a 700r4 if you want the od or 400 if you dont need od and if youall are going thru tranys left and right you might think about not going cheap and just spending the cash lots of trany shops say they rebuild them but in reality they just slam bam $400 kit later and charge you $600 and they dont know shit about why it went out. food for thought
1- torque drive hardened input shaft and drum
2- beast sun shell comes with above
3-machined reverse input drum
4- wide redlined not kevlar band with reinforced band pin area
5-raybestos z pack for the 3-4 clutch far superior to the 9 friction
6-4 which is stock or five pinion planets either works as well the planets didnt break where the gears were anyway they generally all die from lack of lube and in 20 years of building performance 700r4 and 4l60e trannys i have only seen three break at the bottom where output shaft come through and the 4 and 5 pinons are exactly the same there, in anycase the sun gears should be notched for better lube
7-high energy raybestos frictions in the forward clutch
8 -other clucth parts are stock
9-replace the low roller clutch with new
10-replace the input sprag with a 29 element unit
11- large 500 boost valve in pump and lube mod
12-10 vane pump interior provideds higher volume than the 13 v
13-fairbanks super servo for second
14 -sonax super servo for 4th
15- turn preasure control center torx bit 3/8 inch to increase line ,
16 - shift kit , but do not use any kit that disables the accumulators you do not want slamming shifts at all times rather progressivly harder shifts as the throttle is increased, actually increasing the size of certain feed holes is more than adequate from all i have seen with the super servos and z pack it kicks pretty hard under throttle more than some people want or like .
17-proper programing for the tc and rear ratio you are running
560 rwhp is based on a supercharged impala ss on a chasis dyno . transmission has been in service for aprox a year so far with regular visits to the track , chasis dyno is about as rough as you can get on a tranny .
just my two cents
megamax
I Agree With Zboner Just Put A Six Speed In And Be Done With It They're More Fun And They're Tuffer, Unless You Like An Auto , The Only Prob Is It Costs More To Get A Good Tuff Auto Into A Car Like A Camaro Or Anything For That Matter Think!
You just end up trading one problem for another. Ya, the six speed will last longer, because the clutch and the rear end take all the abuse. I've been that road, and it ends up costing more, especially after the conversion cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000b4c
Yep...
An LS2 flywheel, an LS7 clutch and plate, a clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder ... all GM parts ( hydraulics cause the line was laying on the rear header tube) can get over $1500.00 after labor. I have done a few this year.
It is not hard at all to blow out a clutch and plate if you do not know how to manage the power getting to 'em.
Rear axles get hammered regardless of auto or manual.
People do not like the 4l60e because there are really only a few builders who do them well and second everyones allways looking for a deal , and really to build a 4l60e right isnt cheap , they are a very tough trans i have seen them run at the strip and on a chasis dyno at 700hp and thats the worse abuse you really can do and never miss a lick , now if your talking like most your local tranny shop they put in a 45 dollar kit and a 7 dollar band and filter and your right though for everyday driving that would be fine put real power and a different story, of note ever wonder why the stock tranny mader it 60 70 thousand and more miles and yet the stock rebuild lasted three months , its simple youir engine is presently even with no mods making between 30 and 50 percent more hp and torque than it did the day it was brand new , you want a good auto 4l60e then get one and oput it in your self there are pleanty of vendors out there who can help you out and not disapoint ,
can you get it in a couple days like your local shop PROBABLY NOT ! but its worth the wait to get a real performance 4l60e
megamax
Couldn't have said it better Megamax... the engine boys we are working wirh have set out to modify the tune in the unit we installed for them recently... they love the car again! We made a few adjustments to our new 60 after installing it and running it for a few days... after that I cut them loose to lean on it. I came in Monday and the driver was smiling ear to ear.
They were very dissapointed in the last 3 units built by a transmission builder who campaigns his own car... (since Jan. this year) and were begging for a 400. We talked them into letting us have a go at it.The most recent "performance" trans out of this very mildF body roasted 4th. It was less than 1 month old. We dissasembled it and found that it had the obligatory Beast shell, a shift kit that we could not identify, a double cage sprag, high energy clutches and thats about it. This was very identical to what we see out there... sloppy fits on the bushings, no real noticeable change in the pump and other than the v/b kit, no hydraulic system massage best we could tell.
I agree totally... it is a good unit in the hands of a seasoned professional who "gets it".
it about time that someone makes sence with trannys i try to tell people that all the time but they want a $500 trany thats going to hold 700 ponys i dint think so. so you can spend the money right now and do it right or you can spend $500 2 or 3 times and could have bought the good for what you have into them 3.
Yep, but it only takes one jackass valet/ or any other moron who gets to drive your car about an hr to ruin your clutch in a manual tranny, vs the auto's are harder to tear up with their punching it and so on.........unless they decide to put it in reverse or low gear while doin' 80mph.Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBowtie
If you want an overdrive get a 4L80 and be done with it. Its in essense a 400 with overdrive anyhow. A 700 is just a non electronic 4L60 so stay away from it too. I agree with most of what Megamax said especially with the planetaries. I've seen more broken input shafts (supposedly hardened) and cracked drums than I have planetaries due to power. Some get lucky with their 4L60's but no matter what all parts you put in it the input drum assembly is still going to be a big weak spot. Theres a band-aid steel pressed on ring that helps some but it's still a band-aid. Get the 4L80 that stock can take more than many "built" 4L60's. With as many as I have seen destroyed I have no faith in them. I got all the parts in mine equivalent to a Raptor, level 4, or other "600+" rated 4L60E's transmissions and then some but when I get to that magical 500+ RWP its comming out especially when I start spraying 200 or more.