The battle continues....

....to our benefit. :D

Ford Unleashes a 200 MPH Mustang
Published November 15, 2011
| FoxNews.com

When Chevrolet unveiled the 580 hp 2012 Camaro ZL1 and its high-tech magnetically-adjustable suspension, ostensibly claiming the title of king of the pony cars, the folks from Ford were oddly unfazed.

“Don’t worry,” they said, “wait until you see what we have in the works.”

They weren’t kidding.

The 2013 Shelby GT500 will come packing a 650 hp supercharged engine that Ford says is the most powerful production V8 in the world. The 5.8-liter mill sends its 600 lb-ft of torque to the rear wheels via a carbon fiber driveshaft.

Read more: Ford Unleashes A 200 MPH Mustang | Fox News

nice...

Wow and probably cheaper than the zl1

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Your move GM.... LS9 in the Maro? up the boost a tad to push it ahead of the GT500? I really like where this is going. 200mph pony cars. sub 4 sec 0-60 times. what's a lambo owner to do!?? :lol:

Just wait till the aftermarket gets their hands on these. there's going to be a lot of 800-1k hp stangs and maros floating around.... "street legal" at that.

That thing will be 60k+, the ZL1 is in the mid 50s. For that price a Z06 would sit in my garage. F^ck both of those pony cars.....I want a real horse. :)

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Originally Posted by LSCyaL8R

Your move GM.... LS9 in the Maro? up the boost a tad to push it ahead of the GT500? I really like where this is going. 200mph pony cars. sub 4 sec 0-60 times. what's a lambo owner to do!?? :lol:

Just wait till the aftermarket gets their hands on these. there's going to be a lot of 800-1k hp stangs and maros floating around.... "street legal" at that.

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The ZL1 does NOT have the same internals of the ZR1. It is an LSx but not an LS9 and doesnt have the forged goodies. I believe the Ford does.

...and now we hit the traction wall. I bet big money that this GT500 still gets edged out by a ZL1 or even Z06 in a straight line. The 550hp GT500 was traction limited...what is another 100hp going to do? I just wonder...are Ford and GM going to just keep piling on the power even when it does NOTHING? They should really get to work on weight reduction and traction, and forget the power. All these cars need is 500hp and 300-400 less lbs...they'd probably be FASTER.

All that said, I will be picking up a 2011 GT500 AND 2012 ZL1 around the 2014ish timeframe. I love both of these cars, but i'm not paying V-series money for them. Blue with Grey stripes/wheels for the GT500, and Orange with black stripes for the ZL1. Would love to add a Black Challenger SRT8 392 to that stable, but that's getting a bit ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by TLS_Addict

That thing will be 60k+, the ZL1 is in the mid 50s. For that price a Z06 would sit in my garage. F^ck both of those pony cars.....I want a real horse. :)

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Agreed I would choose the z06 over both, both those pony cars are fat pigs

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Originally Posted by TLS_Addict

The ZL1 does NOT have the same internals of the ZR1. It is an LSx but not an LS9 and doesnt have the forged goodies. I believe the Ford does.

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No I was suggesting they PUT the LS9 in the Maro.

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Originally Posted by Blakbird24

...and now we hit the traction wall. I bet big money that this GT500 still gets edged out by a ZL1 or even Z06 in a straight line. The 550hp GT500 was traction limited...what is another 100hp going to do? I just wonder...are Ford and GM going to just keep piling on the power even when it does NOTHING? They should really get to work on weight reduction and traction, and forget the power. All these cars need is 500hp and 300-400 less lbs...they'd probably be FASTER.

All that said, I will be picking up a 2011 GT500 AND 2012 ZL1 around the 2014ish timeframe. I love both of these cars, but i'm not paying V-series money for them. Blue with Grey stripes/wheels for the GT500, and Orange with black stripes for the ZL1. Would love to add a Black Challenger SRT8 392 to that stable, but that's getting a bit ridiculous.

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Next year Dodge is supposed to offer a factory back super charger for the SRT8 Challenger. :)

The Mustang is on a diet, supposed to be around 3800 lbs. Thats only 200 more than some F-Body cars out there and it has 300 more HP. lol

As you say, traction is key and these cars dont have it.

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Originally Posted by LSCyaL8R

No I was suggesting they PUT the LS9 in the Maro.

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You my friend are on the right track. :)

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Originally Posted by TLS_Addict

That thing will be 60k+, the ZL1 is in the mid 50s. For that price a Z06 would sit in my garage. F^ck both of those pony cars.....I want a real horse. :)

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This!

IMO if I had 60k to spend I'd be finding a used c6z06 for 50k and spend the extra 10k on the 660 lingenfelter package. I know its not really the same conversation as it's not a brand new car but that would be my choice.

I'd buy a classic muscle car and drive something that doesn't looks like everything else on the road/dealer lot :dunno:

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Originally Posted by GTP231

I'd buy a classic muscle car and drive something that doesn't looks like everything else on the road/dealer lot :dunno:

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This to. 60k would allow to do pretty much anything you wanted with a classic or even with a 4th gen.

Ls9 gen 5=Hennessey as far as I know.

You still have Nickey Chicago, Yenko, and Baldwin Motion coming out of retirement to bastardize the gen 5 Camaros.

Then there is Unrestricted Motorsports with their Frankenmaros.

And let's not forget LMR. They are CRAZY!!

The NHTSA says the 'brick' is very safe.

Chevrolet Camaro Aces Crash Test | Fox News

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Originally Posted by Blakbird24

I just wonder...are Ford and GM going to just keep piling on the power even when it does NOTHING?

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Yes. Just like the trucks, 99% of the owners never use the "HD" trucks to their maximum capacities, 99% of sports car buyers don't have the skill to maximize the performance available to them, no matter what power levels or how light the car weighs.

Winning the HP war, if only for one model year = sales.

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Originally Posted by cammed goat

Ls9 gen 5=Hennessey as far as I know.

You still have Nickey Chicago, Yenko, and Baldwin Motion coming out of retirement to bastardize the gen 5 Camaros.

Then there is Unrestricted Motorsports with their Frankenmaros.

And let's not forget LMR. They are CRAZY!!

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No factory 100k warraties that way

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Originally Posted by GTP231

No factory 100k warraties that way

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Like that would stop a GM owner from modding their car to go against a GT500? Some folks don't care about warranties if they build their engine right.

thing thing that always amazes me about this whole thing is how ford is able to keep a tight lid on its plans until the very last minute...basically as it unveils it to the public. gm on the other hand always seems to let things leak a little here...a little there over a long period of time. it took a few years from concept camaro to production camaro. the whole time we were teased with the car...specs, designs, production ideas, etc. ford puts up on its website that in 30 days the "new" mustang would be unveiled...granted that it was little more than a freshening up of the design but still. years vs weeks. and now we have it again. leak upon leak upon leak on the ZL1 over the last year...year and a half. and the whole time ford knew everything about it which gave them the one up advantage of being able to wait until a couple months before the car is slated to go on sale and say "hey...check it out...more power."

just kinda tweaked about it i guess. if gm wants to stay on top of their game they need to be more secretive about their plans.

If GM wants to move back to the top they need to stop being such a shitty company.

GM needs more performance vehicles. So far, there is the Vette, gen 5 Camaro, CTS-V.

I just remembered the gen 5 Camaros ordered with motors built by Livernois. 1000RWHP from the dealership lot.

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Originally Posted by cammed goat

Like that would stop a GM owner from modding their car to go against a GT500? Some folks don't care about warranties if they build their engine right.

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Yes but that Shelby is the beast that it is with the Ford 5 year 60K warranty. Some people care about that

True. Ford is making good on their past issues. If GM has anything in store, time to show what they have.

GM could be waiting to see if the new Shelby actually has the advertised numbers :hasquint:

That's IF the Shelby has sticky tires on it. I remember when Motor Trend took the Hennessey Camaro against the Super Snake and Speed Factory Challenger SRT-8 a few years ago. The Camaro won only due to the poor tires/lack of traction of the Shelby.

What WOULD be nice is if GM relaunched the arrowhead or made a street-legal COPO Camaro with similar warranty.

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How does the GT500 manage its traction problem?
Of course, when dealing with 650 horsepower and 600 lb-ft of torque, traction management becomes a serious concern, to which Ford answered with more than just new gearing. A new, defeatable launch control system has been developed that allows drivers unprecedented levels of control, allowing for specific rpm launch points to be chosen based on elevation, tire and street temperature and other variables. This system is fully unique to the SVT lineup in that it is incorporated into both the engine control and traction control systems.

There is also a Torsen limited-slip differential that comes with the optional Performance Package, something Ford says helps even further to deliver maximum power output to the ground. Rounding out the driving dynamic upgrades are tweaks to the AdvanceTrac system, which now features appropriately adjusted steering assist levels based on the changes to the car.

“We took a completely different approach with this car so drivers can choose their settings instead of a computer making the selection,” Jamal Hameedi, SVT chief engineer, said. “Nearly every system the driver interacts with can be tailored to his or her situation including the Bilstein electronic adjustable suspension, launch control, AdvanceTrac and steering assist levels.”

Of course, with all this power comes the need to slow this 3,850lb beast to a stop, to which Ford, Shelby and SVT answered with a new Brembo brake system that utilizes new six-piston calipers in the front, along with larger front and rear rotors. Ford says it also developed new brake pads which are even more performance-oriented, intended to performance better under high-speed heavy deceleration.

Also part of the stopping equation are wheels and tires, to which the 2013 Shelby GT500 offers two new sets of forged-aluminum wheels including a unique wheel for cars with the optional packages. The 19-inch front and 20-inch rear wheels are coupled with Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar G: 2 tires on all vehicle configurations.

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LA Live: Ford’s 200+MPH, 650HP 2013 Ford Shelby GT500

You have to keep in mind that the ZL1 doesn't need any more power. These cars have reached the point where more power is useless. The GT500 hit that point in between 500-540hp...the 540-550hp GT500's are virtually no faster than the 500hp GT500 with the track pack. 650hp is going to change very little...the suspension work will help, but even the 2013 GT500 is not going to run with the ZL1 on the circuit, and it's not going to put any distance on the ZL1 until damn near it's 200mph top speed. No amount of power is going to fix this...you could give both cars 800hp, or you could give both cars 500hp and the results would be identical. We have reached the point where weight and suspension are officially completely more important than power output.

I'm just interested to see where it goes from here. I won't be surprised if Ford just continues to up the power...i'm HOPING GM will take the smarter route and concentrate on weight and suspension...500-550hp is more than enough for the ZL1 into the next generation if they keep the magneheteorogical damping and work on weight reduction. I'm very interested in these cars right now, but I will lose interest fast if they end up being 800hp, 4500lb blocks.

Well...here's the thing. SLP already has their ZL-1 out on the streets currently. What GM COULD do with their ZL-1 is go the same route as with the Commemorative Corvettes. Lighter wheels as well as lighter body panels...if the ZL-1 doesn't already have lighter body components.