Induction Upgrades and then a tune?

As I search for bargains on exhaust components, the reality that I may never be able to financially justify headers and a mid pipe sets ever more firmly into my mind. So, even though it will still be a goal of mine to get the exhaust upgraded, I will have to put it off indefinitely. That being said, I was thinking about just finishing up my induction system and then getting a tune.

As I understand it, a tune will maximize the performance of the motor by adjusting the timing/air-fuel ratio etc. Does this actually result in horsepower gains? And will it result in greater horsepower gains if the induction system is optimized?

I received an SLP CAI as a gift, and I just bought the FTP ram air upgrade for it. I am also shopping for throttle bodies right now. After that, I will find the best deal I can on an intake manifold and then get a tune.

Will I see a difference in performance after the tune? If so, how much should I expect? I anticipate that with a full induction system upgrade, I should see about 20-30 whp before the tune (or am I dreaming?). Would the tune improve this number?

ebay headers are cheap and work jsut as well as expensive ones... intake and a tuen will get you maybe 10 - 15 rwhp...

By "intake" do you mean everything from the CAI all the way to the combustion chamber, or do you just mean the intake manifold? It's my understanding that an LS6 alone is worth about 15 rwhp.

From what I've read on previous threads is if you stick with just the stock Cam or go with a modest Cam and heads the LS6 is the best bank for the buck. If you are going to radical with a Cam & Heads then a FAST is the way to go.

LS6 Intake go for about $300 on Ebay and craiglist
FAST go for $800 new $500-$600 used


CAI are a waste of time/money and are really bad for our cars IMHO. reason = Very easy to hydrolock. You get minimal gains.

SLP Airlid, P&P TB, LS6 Intake, LT Headers, ORY, and Magnaflow/Flowmasters etc.. muffler will give you really good gains with a tune.

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Originally Posted by Naaman

By "intake" do you mean everything from the CAI all the way to the combustion chamber, or do you just mean the intake manifold? It's my understanding that an LS6 alone is worth about 15 rwhp.

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maybe a f.a.s.t. would give that much but i doubt a LS6 would... probably more along the lines of 6-8 rwhp...

i've seen cars with 290 rwhp go to 330 with full exhaust, lid and a tune...

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

LS6 Intake go for about $300 on Ebay and craiglist
FAST go for $800 new $500-$600 used

CAI are a waste of time/money and are really bad for our cars IMHO. reason = Very easy to hydrolock. You get minimal gains.

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Well, the SLP is going on for sure, which is why I bought the FTP. It has the block off that can be put on to keep the water out.

If you have not looked at BBK headers take a look before you give up on headers. $370 for chrome headers and y pipe. Comes with gaskets and wire to extend the harnesses for the 02s. If your careful about the harnesses you can even split them up and retape without having to splice anything.

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Originally Posted by Spaz

maybe a f.a.s.t. would give that much but i doubt a LS6 would... probably more along the lines of 6-8 rwhp...

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I will be doing an LS6 swap soon and I am expecting to gain around 5-10. I think the Fast is better for heads/cammed cars over 440rwh.

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Originally Posted by Spaz

i've seen cars with 290 rwhp go to 330 with full exhaust, lid and a tune...

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That seems to be the norm on m6 cars.

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Originally Posted by Z28_Driver

If you have not looked at BBK headers take a look before you give up on headers. $370 for chrome headers and y pipe. Comes with gaskets and wire to extend the harnesses for the 02s. If your careful about the harnesses you can even split them up and retape without having to splice anything.

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$379 for the long tubes... that's pretty sweet. What's the reason for the difference in cost between chrome and ceramic? Is ceramic more durable/longer lasting? That looks like something doable. What about the 2.5" Y-pipe that comes with it? Is a 3" more worth the cost? And would it make a difference if the back end of the headers are not at least 3"?

Ceramic lowers the engine temps and protects longer then painted headers. Chrome looks pretty and and last longer but can raised engine bay temps higher longer because the chroming helps retain the heat from the exhaust.

The chrome looks good. So does the ceramic. Ceramic might get you a hp or 2 more due to lower underhood temps. Not worth the extra $$ if you ask me.

I can't see where the 2.5" y will be a problem on a street driven vehicle. You can always get a bigger y later (or true duals) if you feel you need it.

The headers fit great. The y hugs the floor without any rattle. I have no complaints with the BBK longtubes or the y.

Only wish I could afford a new catback since im still running the stock one.

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Ceramic lowers the engine temps and protects longer then painted headers. Chrome looks pretty and and last longer but can raised engine bay temps higher longer because the chroming helps retain the heat from the exhaust.

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Originally Posted by Z28_Driver

The chrome looks good. So does the ceramic. Ceramic might get you a hp or 2 more due to lower underhood temps. Not worth the extra $$ if you ask me.

I can't see where the 2.5" y will be a problem on a street driven vehicle. You can always get a bigger y later (or true duals) if you feel you need it.

The headers fit great. The y hugs the floor without any rattle. I have no complaints with the BBK longtubes or the y.

Only wish I could afford a new catback since im still running the stock one.

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Based on this input, it would seem that a cold air intake would be more beneficial if I went with the chrome rather than the ceramic. Also, would a 160-thermostat offset the extra heat from chrome (or would the chrome force the thermostat to work harder), or does the thermostat only deal with the temps of the cooling system?

My only problem with CAI of SLP design are that they make it easy to hydro-lock if caught in the rain and you drive through a puddle.

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Originally Posted by Naaman

Based on this input, it would seem that a cold air intake would be more beneficial if I went with the chrome rather than the ceramic. Also, would a 160-thermostat offset the extra heat from chrome (or would the chrome force the thermostat to work harder), or does the thermostat only deal with the temps of the cooling system?

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are you getting a tune done??? with the 160 stat you'll need the fans tuned for that...

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

My only problem with CAI of SLP design are that they make it easy to hydro-lock if caught in the rain and you drive through a puddle.

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Yeah, that's why I ordered the FTP ram-air with block off. It can be put on when it's wet outside to prevent the induction of water.

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Originally Posted by Spaz

are you getting a tune done??? with the 160 stat you'll need the fans tuned for that...

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Yes, I will be getting a tune done. The 160 thermo was a consideration with regards to a chrome vs ceramic header set up.

Quick question: 85mm throttle body... will it fit on an otherwise stock car?

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Originally Posted by Naaman

Yeah, that's why I ordered the FTP ram-air with block off. It can be put on when it's wet outside to prevent the induction of water.



Yes, I will be getting a tune done. The 160 thermo was a consideration with regards to a chrome vs ceramic header set up.

Quick question: 85mm throttle body... will it fit on an otherwise stock car?

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A P&P TB from S2 Performance will give you about the same Hp gains as a 85mm. Now if you are going with a FAST setup I would then step up to the 85mm.

Yes, I was considering going with an intake manifold with an 85mm opening. But, I don't have the money to buy both TB and Manifold together, so I figured I could get the TB now-ish and the manifold sometime down the road. Will the TB bolt up to my stock manifold in the meantime?

The one I mention takes a stock TB and does the P&P (cost about $150) so yes it would. I also know the BBK 85mm (cost about $350) will also fit on LS1/6 and FAST 90/90 Intakes.


You can get a used LS6 intake on craiglist or ebay for about $300

"Yeah, that's why I ordered the FTP ram-air with block off. It can be put on when it's wet outside to prevent the induction of water."

I did the free ram air mod right after I bought my SS in Wa. Never have had a water injestion problem.

My car Dyno'd 330rwhp/342rwtq on a Mustang DYNO after my LT's, exhaust, lid, and tune. That was also through a 9" rear end, which is the least efficient. I'm a M6.

I would think that your intake mods will only go so far before they hit the restrictive exhaust and limiting power. Keep hunting thru the on-line auctions for used parts. Other guys are constantly changing and upgrading. I get all my mods second hand. Chrome or aluminum is better than no coating. Ceramic protects the steel AND keeps heat flowing thru the exhaust. Stainless is better but is high cost. Stainless with ceramic is best (very costly).

What about short or mid-length headers? I know they don't yield as much gain, but certain things about long tubes put me off. I would like to be able to pass emissions and would also like to avoid ground clearance issues, especially since I'm considering lowering my springs about an inch or so.

My last induction mod is coming up soon and then it will be time to move on to exhaust.

Is the only reason to get LTs because they make more power? Are the benefits of short vs. medium vs. long just a tradeoff between performance and price, or is there more to it than that?

shorties and mids are really only good to give you a little better then stock but also allow you to pass emissions in some states.


States like Cali and NY are hard asses when it comes to LTs.

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

shorties and mids are really only good to give you a little better then stock but also allow you to pass emissions in some states.


States like Cali and NY are hard asses when it comes to LTs.

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Yeah... that's something that I would prefer not to have to worry about... I want my car to retain practicality... I haven't written off LTs yet, but I do like to weigh my options.

not to derail thread, but just don't forget about your suspension and drivetrain, as you're adding power your putting more stress on them and some pieces should be upgraded no matter what. Also be sure to check out the "free mods".

GL with your build :)

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Originally Posted by TransAmX2

not to derail thread, but just don't forget about your suspension and drivetrain, as you're adding power your putting more stress on them and some pieces should be upgraded no matter what. Also be sure to check out the "free mods".

GL with your build :)

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Oh, for sure. I have Bilstiens up front, Koni's out back, SFCs, and LCAs so far. In the unforeseeable future I plan to get a STB, K-member, a 12-bolt, a carbon fiber driveshaft, a tunnel brace/DSL and a panhard bar.... STB or tunnel brace will probably be the first of those...

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Originally Posted by Naaman

Oh, for sure. I have Bilstiens up front, Koni's out back, SFCs, and LCAs so far. In the unforeseeable future I plan to get a STB, K-member, a 12-bolt, a carbon fiber driveshaft, a tunnel brace/DSL and a panhard bar.... STB or tunnel brace will probably be the first of those...

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I would get the torque arm before the STB. It might be different for verts (unlikely though), but most people (like 90%+) say that the STB does nothing for improvement, it's more for cosmetics.

Torque arm... same as panhard bar? I understand that the STB is kinda dubious, however, I'm thinking that maybe since I have a vert, it will actually reduce flex that coupes don't experience... :hmm: After all, it sits right over the motor, which is where I would imagine flex is greatest... :dunno:

You mentioned tunnel brace. That to me meant torque arm since the torque arm comes in a tunnel brace fashion or a full-length version.

The tunnel in the car is in the middle going from front to back.

A pan hard bar goes from left to right.

A pan hard bar controls the cars motion from side to side.

A torque arm is a metal arm attached between the rear end axle assembly and the vehicle's frame. It's purpose is to prevent the driving wheels from trying to rotate the axle assembly relative to the vehicle's frame under acceleration, or in the opposite direction under braking. Thus the torque is "neutralized" so far as trying to rotate the drive axles, and the torque is all applied to the job of accelerating the vehicle in a linear direction, or translating braking force to a force that slows the vehicle.

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Originally Posted by planemech2

"Yeah, that's why I ordered the FTP ram-air with block off. It can be put on when it's wet outside to prevent the induction of water."

I did the free ram air mod right after I bought my SS in Wa. Never have had a water injestion problem.

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Im a Insurance adjsuter and have seen many a Hydrolocked cars due to cold are intakes, but I have one and Im not worried about this happening with the slp style cold air intake. Hydrolocking only seems to happen to the idiots who make thier own kits and run them straight down to the ground so hit a puddle and suck up water. :thinking kinda like this icon, if the kit goes underwater then yes it will suck up water and suck for you!

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Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS

You mentioned tunnel brace. That to me meant torque arm since the torque arm comes in a tunnel brace fashion or a full-length version.

The tunnel in the car is in the middle going from front to back.

A pan hard bar goes from left to right.

A pan hard bar controls the cars motion from side to side.

A torque arm is a metal arm attached between the rear end axle assembly and the vehicle's frame. It's purpose is to prevent the driving wheels from trying to rotate the axle assembly relative to the vehicle's frame under acceleration, or in the opposite direction under braking. Thus the torque is "neutralized" so far as trying to rotate the drive axles, and the torque is all applied to the job of accelerating the vehicle in a linear direction, or translating braking force to a force that slows the vehicle.

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Wait... does that mean it helps prevent fishtailing, or that it reduces wheel spin?

I was under the impression that a tunnel brace bolted up across the driveshaft, and has a safety loop.

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Originally Posted by st_cspeer

Im a Insurance adjsuter and have seen many a Hydrolocked cars due to cold are intakes, but I have one and Im not worried about this happening with the slp style cold air intake. Hydrolocking only seems to happen to the idiots who make thier own kits and run them straight down to the ground so hit a puddle and suck up water. :thinking kinda like this icon, if the kit goes underwater then yes it will suck up water and suck for you!

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I was thinking the same. It seems like the SLP cold air intake doesn't even change the path of the air relative to a stock config.

A torque arm will help prevent the rear end (axle assembly) from trying to rotate under hard acceleration, thus keeping the tires planted more firmly against the ground. This in term helps with traction and keep HP where it belongs...at the ground.

Hope that helps clarify.

The torque arm (in stock form) mounts to the rear end assembly and the tailshaft of the transmission. Aftermarket torque arms usually remove the front mounting off the tailshaft and onto the actual frame of the car via cross-member. This reduces the chances of you breaking your tailshaft housing of the transmission (which many have).

Okay, so it mitigates parasitic loss, then? Rather than the rotational forces of the crank twisting the whole car and rattling things around, it directs the force straight (or... perpendicular, as the case may be) to the axle. Right?

Correct. It controls your pinion angle, which is the angle of the rear differential pinion with respect to your drive shaft.

It usually starts off or is set to -2 degrees (pinion is nose down in relation to the drive shaft) and as the car is accelerated, ideally it would be at exactly 0 degrees, or a straight line. This straight driveline transmits the most power to the wheels.