[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qc4Xb7G1ck[/ame]
Looks like the new 5.0s are going to be a beast!
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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qc4Xb7G1ck[/ame]
Looks like the new 5.0s are going to be a beast!
Yeah I read the motor trend write up on these and was amazed. 12.7 bone ass stock! This one pulled 12.6 but I am having a hard time believing that only drag tires brought it down almost a full sec. Idk, Ive seen stranger things I guess. Still gonna be some major competition though. Cant wait to see what Camaro will do about it. It still amazes me that Ford got so much more power outta just reworkin the 4.bitch
Well for one they didn't rework the old 4.6 the 5.0 is an all new motor. Plus look what BMW did with the M3 and it is only a 4.4 liter V8. I think the new Mustang is one hell of a car with tons of potential once the aftermarket opens up.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2KSS
The new m3 is only a 4.0 liter v8. Its also the lightest production car v8 and makes 420hp and 309trq.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robw_29
hmmm, i could have swore that i read somewhere that they started with the current 4.6 and totally re-did it to get the 5.0, enough to call it "all new". i do know that they share the same bore centers and deck height. And I never said it wasnt bad ass cuz it is believe me... its about time ford pulled their head outta their asses and maned up for a change :chuckles:Quote:
Originally Posted by Robw_29
Stock just as fast as a shelby gt500, I guess they have something else to whine about.
On the video they managed to get 12.6sec stock, then they added a tune, exhaust, and intake to dip into the 11s, still impressive for a 302!
Damnnnnn... Time to start modding I i guess
Just for the record the camaro has done the same thing, gone 11s with bolt ons and drag radials. The ls3 cars make 400-415whp with bolt ons and a tune.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thGenTA
I don't care if it runs 10's stock, those things are ugly as hell.
Like the look on your face when one pulls on youQuote:
Originally Posted by BrntWS6
:monkey:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrntWS6
im with brnt on this one...trans ams are panty droppers ...the GTs are panty wearers :chuckles:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinergy
I have owned a lot of muscle/sports cars and I think the 2011 Mustang GT will be my next one. Might wait until 2012 just to see if they come out with a 302 Boss but not sure I can wait for something that might not happen.
List of old cars
1993 Mustang LX 5.0
1996 Corvette LT4
2000 Trans AM WS6
2001 Mustang GT (Had to do it 0% financing and WS6 was a 600 dollar a month payment)
2004 Dodge SRT-4
2005 Pontiac GTO
Still have the SRT-4 Stage 3 and the fastest out of all the cars listed. Then again it has the most mods.
All of the cars list except the 93 LX 5.0 had a good amount of bolt on mods.
All were fun cars but I get bored easy and change cars more than I should.
I think I would end up keeping the 2011 Mustang for a while but it would not stay stock for long.
I agree, no contest the ls1 T/A is a masterpiece of beauty.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
yeah the TA are sexy!! but i still wouldnt mind the 2011 mustang for my next car!
I don't think they'll have the modding potential due to almost being at their limits. I mean there is not much to be gained in the exhaust department, since Ford went with a nice headers and exhaust setup. They do have some room for improvement in the air intake area, but I don't think they can be expanded as much as we thought at first. They are not able to take a lot of boost apparently (from what I'm hearing/reading about the internals being powder forged etc) and there is a video over on ls1 tech where one gets walked by a stock 02 SS ls1! Same guy owns both cars, and other than leaving traction control on, and it not being broke in it was a fair race as you could expect. Still nice and stout rides though, can't wait to run into one :) I may not win, but just want to hear/see it in action, in person.
:chuckles: did u watch that video oddwraith ?? Once tuners and the aftermarket catch up with the engine...it is going to be nasty....I was a non believer....but I am starting to see the 5.0 is a beast
New competition for the GN!!! Can't wait to run one and embarass them like the 5.0's of old!!
Definitely a nice car.
Ford finally got it right this time around. They could have just as easily bored out the 4.6 to a 5.0 so it had around 350HP and called it a day. People would still be all about that. But instead they did it right - totally new engine from the ground up, 4 valve heads instead of the stupid 3 valves, 6 speed manual, and available Brembo brakes with 19" wheels. That makes all the difference.
I wouldn't mind having one myself. Those track times are very impressive as well, 11's at 118MPH with bolt ons is quite fast.
11's with bolt on's is fast, but these cars can't have too much room for improvement. People think so, but like oddwraith said they come with tuned headers, true duals, and most importantly 11:1 compression. You won't be able to throw too much boost to it or it will blow up. If you try a cam swap you have 4 cams to pay for...
I'm just skeptical
Don't give up already!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddwraith
they come with shorties...nothing new there....there is still room to improve just like shorties vs longtubes here. Also mustangs always come with true duals ...that is why they sound sooo good. on the compression ...who said anything about running boost. Some new pistons and that is taken care of ...which would need to be done anyways. Also 4 cams has always been the case for the mustang since their 4.6.........so that is a moot point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH.WS6
long story short...we are trying desperately to come up with reasons to shortchange this engine because of the big potential it has and coming with a blue oval . The mustang vs camaro etc is back ...i only expect to see the new 5.0 get better through out the years
u sir hit the nail on the head:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
The 5.0 is sweet...but the 5.4 all aluminum from the Ford GT is even sweeter. Watching the 2011 GT500 run at VIR made me drool.
Ford is already prepared and waiting for the Z/28.
What an awesome war to be a part of.....
Get out your wallets boys....Ford is using that $2 billion profit they made the 1st quarter of 2010 to break GM's already broke bank.
while the 5.4 is amazing and was in one of my favorite cars of all time...i cant say i am more impressed with the 5.0.....this is the only reason why ......it is F/I ........dont get me wrong...i love f/i and would like to run f/i down the road.....but 550hp out of a 5.4 f/i is not that impressive............550hp out of a n/a 5.4 or 5.0 is impressive ...i find high output n/a engines more impressive than high output f/i engines personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevnstac
yes, shorties that took their engineers forever to perfect lol.... something about their reverse firing order complicating things and space. Their current design netted 15ft lbs and 6 hp. If they manage to fit LT's in the same space we may see a little more power... but not much improvement. I've read articles were a good shorty can almost be as good as LT's.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
They have always come with true duals... that's why stang cat back's don't net much gain if any.
Yes, exactly factory they aren't a prime candidate for boost. Unless you want to spend another grand for lower compression piston's.
And none of the GT's to this date have had 4 cams... just 2, thanks to SOHC.
Everything on this new car has already been optimized for efficiency... The only thing left is boost... and you can't do that with out spending more money to lower the compression.
This ain't a 03-04 cobra guys.... were the drive train and crank were built with 1000hp applications in mind.
i dont know where you herd shorties get close to LTs .Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH.WS6
are the ls1s prime candidates for boost with our 10.25:1? but yet we respond very well with f/i ....
touche on the GTs i was hasty saying always..however the machs and the cobras are dohc.
go ahead and think the 5.0 is maxed...despite the fact that the intake and heads, and cams ..can and will be worked for more power.
unbelievable
well in my high performance pontiac mags they have tested that a good set of shorties are pretty close to a set of long tubes... this was Edlebrock vs SLP LT's. Net gains with the factory exhaust were about the same. But in a later issue they tested street tires vs DR's and they claim DR's will only give you a tenth at the track. All I'm saying is ford thought long and hard before they went with their "nontraditional" design.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
While our cars do well I wouldn't say they are reliable with fi with out the proper internal mods to compliment them... just as this 11:1 beast would be.
And I have heard of people swapping cams in GT's, but as for the Mach I and Cobra I don't hear too many people modding the Mach Internally or the Cobra because a set of cams for these motors run (sometimes $1200) the cost of a cam and cam swap for our cars. The 03-04 Cobra's typically receive a nice pulley change or a Kenne Bell Blower.
I'm not saying this Mustang is gonna blow balls like the 2v after the 5.0, but I think the vid on youtube proves they aren't the most bad ass thing out there. I don't see the 5.0 GT out gunning or keeping uo with my personal fav stang the GT500 or 03-04 Cobras. @ a 12.7 this GT smokes a Cobra and the 540 horse GT500... this vid says otherwise since just a couple weeks ago I watched a GT500 pone an exhaust/LT's/air lid Camaro. The GT500 had 112 miles on it! it ran a 12.899 @112mph vs 13.5 @104mph.
There's no Coyotes here yet, but if one shoots down the track faster than that... that will be the day I believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinergy
That doesn't bother me at all. If it did I would have thrown a Procharger on 8years ago when I bought it. It's a garage queen that I store in the winter and car show in the summer. And any sane person wouldn't look twice at that stang parked next to mine.:D Just never been a fan of this body style, I still love the looks of the 03/04 Cobra's though.
Sane person? lol, looks are all personal preference and ALOT of people like the look of the stangs over the ws6.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrntWS6
I know dude, hence the smiley
I personally dislike pop-up headlights on ANY car, and therefore find the Mustang no less attractive than the WS6. FWIW. It is interesting to see the base GT playing things so close to the SS; hopefully the pony power war will heat up again because of it :)
Wow, there is someone on this board that actually thinks like I do :chuckles:Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
I'm with ya shady. Anybody can stick a power adder on an engine and make it fast, that's easy.
It takes a well thought out combo to run fast with the 14.7 god gave us ;) I get more satisfaction out of that.
My neighbor just got their new 2011 5.0 mustang. Great running car for a showroom stocker.
very true..but when i see a dialed in setup that is F/I with the right stall and h/c/i combo...it is amazing almost as amazing to me as a dialed in N/a lsx platform that flat out runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
what comes to mind is richard childress's single turbo t/a
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXu6BXT9Q8"]here[/ame]
Well the music about drove me nuts so I didn't watch it all,,,,,but ya the forced induction setups are sweet, and make big power very easily. It just never impressed me that much considering I've seen old VW bugs that fast with turbo's on em' too.
But I'm liking what I see of these new mustangs so far. If I were on the market for a new car it would be one I would take a hard look at.
Wow, nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
if the times posted for this video are real I am very impressed with the new 5.0
[MEDIA][ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_GkNeD_uIM[/ame][/MEDIA]
The comments from the SS driver and person that posted the video
I ran a 13.09 at 109 Long tube headers....Mustang ran 12.88 at 114 stock on that pass..The Mustang ran a best of 12.73 @ 115 and my Camaro 12.79 @111
They both appeared to be automatics too.
I've raced at Sac before, they are only about 50 feet above sea level, so you will see better times there during the cooler parts of the year.
MMFF ran 12.72@112.49 mph and switched to a shorter diameter drag radial (lowering gearing) and ran 12.3 @ 110.7.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2KSS
I think Ford did the car right. It has a 3.55 and 3.73 option on the rear end. The car they ran had the 3.73 option.
But I also think the Camaro looks a little meaner, and I like the bigger engine. Just because I had a 5.0 back in the day doesn't mean I will run out and get it. I am more interested in how nice the car is.
Well I can tell you the new 5.0 and the old 5.0 shouldnt even be compared other than to see the advancements made in streetable performance. The new stang is pretty solid all the way around. I get what your saying about wanting a 6.2 over a 5.0 because of potential but as far as nice goes there pretty close.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaviDyn
I know they have nothing in common, including displacement. The old engine is 4942 cc, or 4.9 litres. You can call it a 5 litre, but you can't call it a 5.0. A 3rd grade math student should be able to tell Ford why.
I do like both. I don't care for the Challenger as much. But that is based on looks alone. The picutres are hideous, but in person it is much better. But I still like the new Camaro and 2010+ Mustang better.
the rounding rule..plus marketing 5.0 >4.9Quote:
Originally Posted by NaviDyn
you know the ls1 which is referred to as a 5.7 or for some of the less educated people on gen IIIs a csb 350
even though we are a 346 which is 5.67 ...so i guess that 3rd grade student should stop by GM after he is done with ford :lol:
Did you know, according to some, you can bore any small block Chevy out to 400 CI? That includes the 305.
Nah, doesn't work that way. If you round to the first decimal place, like EVERYBODY who builds an engine does, 4.94 rounds down to 4.9 and 5.67 rounds up to 5.7. That is what he meant about third grade math. It's nice to see a true 5.0 in a Mustang badged 5.0; personally I think the old cars should have been badged with a 302 anyway, but oh well. The real 5.0 engine in the 80s actually came in GM cars (305ci actually does round to 5.0 :))Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by NaviDyn
I wanna see somebody running one of those :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaviDyn
Actually, GM produced a 400ci small block V8 from 1970 to 1980. It wasn't much of a performance engine, and was generally found in trucks, and cars like the Caprice and Olds 98. As far as I know, that was the largest of the original Chevy small blocks that started out in the mid 1950's as a little 265ci "mouse motor." The LT1 350 was the end of the line, since the LSx motors are a completely different casting.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJWZ28
I was making fun of people that know just enough to be dangerous. I want to see that 305 TPI get overbored to hit 400 cubic inches.Quote:
Originally Posted by TRMach1
The 400 small blocks were their own little animal with siamese bores that measured 4.125 inches stock. Going even more than about .040 over on these is considered the limit without sonic checking. They also had a 3.75 inch stroke crank to reach that cubic inch of 400.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaviDyn
You absolutely cannot bore the other gen 1 small blocks of 350 or smaller up to a 4.125 inch bore. The largest of which were 4 inch bores stock,,,that would require a .125 overbore,,,,not going to happen on a stock production gen 1 small block.
For this reason is what has made the 400 blocks so desirable to aquire. With stroker cranks available now you can take that 400 block out to 434 cubes if you want. Can't do that with a 350 block.
Which is why companies such as Merlin or World have come out with 4.125 inch bore blocks now, because the supply of factory blocks have dried up. You can now purchase these aftermarket 4.125 bore blocks with even more meat than the factory blocks had, and build 454 cubed small blocks easily.
Just for info purposes....
The little 302, 327, and 350's were the only other gen 1 engines that came with what is considered the performace standard 4 inch bore. Usually .060 over and these blocks are done. Only the strokes made the cubic inch differences of........ 3 inch, 3.25 inch, and 3.48 inch respectively.
To get a 307 you had the bore of 3.875 inches (same as the 283) but the 307 had the 3.25 inch stroke crank (same as the 327) So even the little 307's had some performance potential.
The little 283's had the same bore of 3.875 inches but had a 3 inch stroke crank. These can also be made to be little screamers.
The 305 however is a performance slug as far as potential goes. The bore was even smaller at 3.740 inches and arrived at 305 cubes with the 350 stroke crank of 3.48 inches. Horrible combo with alot of piston speed and not enough bore to make any real HP. Simply put they were gas mileage engines with more stroke to try and boost torque levels.
Sorry for the history lesson, but I felt compelled to explain that.
Ya, to reach a 4.125 bore with a 305 bore of 3.740 you would have to go,,,,,,get this,,,,,, .385 overbore :umm:Quote:
Originally Posted by NaviDyn
such as ?Quote:
Originally Posted by NaviDyn
I know that. I was just saying that I wanna see a jackass with a "400ci" overbored 305 at the track. 305s didn't use the same block as a 400, and even if somebody managed to find a freak 305 block that was willing to accept the bore necessary to make it a 400ci, I can't imagine it would last one all-out pass at the track.Quote:
Originally Posted by TRMach1
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJWZ28
That's not going to happen, even filling with hardblock won't get it done. There just isn't enough meat in a 305 to go that far.
Just no way around it without a 400 block. Which is why the aftermarket saw the need to produce them again.
That's what I thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Damn nice car for the money :usa:
:cheers: Even tho I don't agree with the hype, as long as it is American made I don't mind it! I don't mind a challenge :firedevil:Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1What
Fords not telling the whole truth car really has around 435 H P !!!! Couple mags have already put the new 2011 on the machine to find out !!!!! Looks like GM beter dig a lot deeper for some power for their Camaro !!!!!!!!!
??? why alot deeper ?Quote:
Originally Posted by trans am man 99
Car Craft claims they had a brand new one on a chassis dyno and it almost eclipsed 400 RWHP.Quote:
Originally Posted by trans am man 99
Pretty healthy. They said it has a better power to weight ratio than both the new camaro and SRT8 challenger. I think that says it all right there.
and put the damn thing on a diet!Quote:
Originally Posted by trans am man 99
I can think of alot of other things too, like ditching the power sucking IRS, which would not only cut weight, and cut costs, but put more power to the wheels.Quote:
Originally Posted by FasstChevys
Get rid of those big ugly 20 inch wheels or what ever they are. That would not only cut overall weight, but reduce unsprung weight too.
I'd also like to see more rear gear as an option, and get back to a .50 overdrive to compensate. Unfortunately for GM to confide to CAFE standards, that's not going to happen. Honestly I'd like to see the whole platform redesigned.
I could go on but I'll quit picking on it ;)
that is the plan..the 2012 i think is supposed to be on a lighter weight platform ..the alpha platform which is a smaller midsize platform so expect near 4th gen weight and more power. I agree with everything you said old man..minus the IRS ...i think for the camaro to sell well it will need to have the IRS for its handling and ride characteristics. but yeah...have a 18" wheel option with a 10-11 width . offer a performance rear end ratio, and the powerplant wouldnt even need to be touched to exceed the srt8s and the GTs ...and this is something they could implement right now ...add the Alpha chassis and it is all over for the GT and srt8s .....400rwhp in a 3600-3900 platform ...:drool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Does this new planned platform still utilize IRS???Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
I don't know about most, but I don't buy a 4 seater camaro to turn corners, and I have found even the solid axles far exceed my limitations, I'm not Mario Andretti :spit: I'd buy another vette if I were really into that sort of thing.
Seems 99% here are more worried about how fast a car goes in a straight line, don't need IRS for that. But I guess you are right in the fact that it's a market now, they make what they think they can sell, GM just hasn't been very good at those decisions it seems.
Ford tried it, and went back to solid axles. Hasn't hurt their sales from what I've seen.
Guess you could say I just haven't liked the new camaro since it's inception. Maybe a change to a new platform might do it some good.
Will kinda suck for all the new camaro buyers out there though that have already bought. When platforms change, that usually means parts interchangability is nill, and parts become obsolete in a few years,,,,UGH!!!
I'm just rambling, carry on......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
im sure it will use IRS ....you are right about the mustang ..who knows ...id love a solid axle underneath the new maro ....i just dont think Gm wants to take that risk on ride quality etc...and you know damn well if they did ...knowing GM they'd put that damn 7.5 10 bolt in it :lol:
Oooofff!! You are probably right. I didn't think about that. Best to just stick with what they have :DQuote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
They could bump the LS3 up to 450 or 475hp with absolutely no problem, just a mild cam swap. That's not digging deep at all. It might cause a problem with the Z06 and upcoming Z28 though, so don't hold your breath. I really don't expect a lot of increase in performance for the SS, because GM doesn't want to make the Z28 (which should be a slightly heavier car) irrelevant.
That's what I'm keeping in mind. The only way I'll buy a brand new Camaro is if the Gen 6 is 3700 pounds with the same power. If you buy a gen 5 Camaro and put shorter tires on it, however, it does greatly improve the performance. 305/30R19 will do just fine, without much compromise in the appearance of the car. This http://www.peddersusa.com/products/21/166Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
http://www.peddersusa.com/products/21/179
Honestly looks pretty good IMHO
IRS is a mainstream item mainly because of ride comfort. IRS is more comfy than live axle and there is no arguing that. Thats why people want it
Ya I guess if that's what floats your boat. Guess I'm not that spoiled, I find solid axle cars ride just fine for me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Zinergy
I've always felt for years that car manufactures have been giving us more than is really necessary.
I just need 4 wheels that roll, a steering wheel that turns, gas and brakes,,,,and I'm happy ;)
But there is only 1 of you, and sadly your income isnt enough to keep these companies afloat so they have to give the people what they want and have grown used to. And if you do make that much buy me something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
:rotfl: I wish I could, but like most, I'm not made of money either. If I were, I'd like to just buy the car manufacture and make major changes. But that wouldn't work either, the government wouldn't let me build a car the way I would want one. :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinergy
Which is why I still drive my classic stuff that is 40+ years old ;)
As far as I'm concerned with most of these new cars, they can just drive them right off a cliff.
i like what pedders is doing with the maro ...as the maro is stuck with IRS ...you might as well use its strong points...and pedders is doing that..tightening up the bushes etc making the maro handle and brake well..not to mention launch well.
Exactly. IRS has more handling potential than a solid axle, while solid axles have more drag-racing potential. Since the focus these days is more on handling than drag-racing, it makes sense that the newer muscle cars would be designed with IRS. There are companies out there that wil retro-fit solid axles into the modern cars for those who still don't like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
I think if GM was that worried about handling they wouldn't have made it such a pig. GM missed the boat on the camaro plain and simple while ford hit the mark with the 2011 mustang has much as I hate to say it being a GM guy. I really don't think the people that can afford a new muscle car are all about handling if you want that you can find much better cars out there than a camaro, mustang or challenger. Muscle cars will always be about who's faster not who handles better. Don't get me wrong i'm not bashing IRS I just don't think the focus of these cars is about handling.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJWZ28
it is about ride comfort and handling. the whole zeta platform is about ride comfort and handling in respects to its size. the maro's rim/tire combination says it all..riding on basically suv set up.Quote:
Originally Posted by rc74racer
the mustang will have its turn in the lime light ..their top end package is very impressive..but look in the next few years and that mustang will get heavier
I never said anything about ride and comfort, I agree with you on that. All I said was they were not that concerned about handling and when I say that I'm talking about performance handling. Will the mustang get heavier to give the buyer more comfort and a better ride perhaps. Maybe the camaro will get lighter so it can be faster who knows. All I know is people who buy these cars are more concerned about beating the other guy or gal to the next light then getting to the top of a twisty mountain road first.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
trueQuote:
Originally Posted by rc74racer
they said this about our engines when they were first introduced. no one thought you could get better flow out of a head than LS1's...took aftermarket awhile but we all know there is a smarter brain out there than the ones at ford:D(gonna take my shots at ford any chance i get seeing as the new 5.0 is a beast)Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH.WS6
Usually. My point was just that handling has become a much higher priority for OEMs lately, no matter what type of body the performance package is offered in. Everybody is talking about the lap times their car turns at specific tracks, or how much time each suspension option cuts from their lap times. Since the popular trend lately (whether media or consumer-driven) is for muscle cars to handle like they're on rails, the OEMs have stepped up to the plate to meet that demand, and now the Mustang and Camaro are throwing down handling numbers that rival those of a C5 Corvette.Quote:
Originally Posted by rc74racer
I agree completely. We've had a couple of vettes, and although they do handle nice, I still never really cared to push them around corners much at all,,,,certainly no more than I push our solid axle cars around corners.Quote:
Originally Posted by rc74racer
So I really couldn't care less if these cars come with IRS. If GM thinks thats what sells cars, then oh well :dunno: But it doesn't bring me into the dealerships. Been there, done that,,,,,not impressed.
But I've always been a straight line kinda guy, always will be I suspect.
And if you really want to dig back into the heritage of these pony cars and what they were supposed to be about,,,it had nothing to do with handling, or ride comfort. It's what started the muscle car wars and who was the first one to the next stop light.
Not quite. Sure that's what started it, but it wasn't long before they were turning corners too. Trans Am racing racing series, anybody?Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
And doing it with solid axles ;) Unlike the corvettes that had IRS since 63. And guess which one was winning....This might have been before your time, but do you remember the championship winning teams from 67 through say,,,,72????Quote:
Originally Posted by RJWZ28
I don't recall any IRS cars being in Trans Am at that point in time. All of those cars were solid axle until Porsches and Jaguars showed up later. But that wasn't my point; my point was that there was focus on handling in the beginning as well, just not as much. However, IRS tends to give the handling advantages of a well set up solid axle car without some of the drawbacks. Neither is perfect (IRS is more complex and therefore usually easier to break, solid axles aren't as forgiving of surface imperfections) but that is how the OEMs weighed out the pros and cons about each system before they decided what to install in their vehicles. Ford went with the solid axle for the best combination of strength, price, and weight, while GM went for the IRS to try to beat the Stang in the corners. Ford went more aggressive with the suspension and more practical with the rolling stock, and now the Camaro needs a bit of work to play catch up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Vettes have been involved in SCCA since their inception in various classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJWZ28
GM seems to have gotten onto the IRS kick, first it was the new GTO and now the camaro. If they would get away from that expensive stuff it would make the cars more affordable to everyone. Not everyone wants IRS, I really don't think that's what makes or breaks the camaro anyway. But I think Ford has the right idea with a solid axle, smaller lighter package, that's what makes a pony car from my perspective. I don't want all the fancy doodads.
Unfortunately the challenger and camaro have turned into giant clydesdale horses instead of little ponies :lol: Completely missed the boat and no longer represent what they used to be.
But society has gotten soft, they want more room, comfort, etc... so the big 3 change direction to compensate. And I can understand why. But I don't fit in to all that, guess I'll stick to classics. :D
I want light weight, quick acceleration, AND good handling, hence my plans to purchase a Corvette in the next couple of years. However, at the moment I am in need of something more practical, and a 2006-2007 CTS-V is the only reasonably priced "lightweight" modern American V-8 manual RWD sedan I can find, and therefore is the only car currently on my shopping list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Sadly firebirdjones more people want handling over straight line performance every year. On the other car websites im on the drag racing sections have 2-10 threads and the autox/road couse sections have hundreds upron hundreds.
Ya I'm aware of that,, sad but true how this country is changing and getting soft,,,,,but it's not going to sway me to the other side. It is what it is. I enjoy what I've got and feel damn lucky to have it. I don't feel I need to spend even more money for something that doesn't really appeal to me anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinergy
There are still some of us that don't feel the car manufactures are giving us what we need, although a small percentage, I don't mind being a minority.
About the last car that made production that I really liked was the 2000 Cobra R from Ford. A bare bones no nonsense car. They didn't have any trouble getting rid of them,,,,so there is a market, albeit small. If GM would do something like that I'd be at the door first thing in the morning placing my order. Otherwise as far as I'm concerned they can keep wasting their time :cheers:
Those caddies aren't exactly light either. Like I mentioned above,,,,about the last car that offered what you are looking for was the 2000 Cobra R.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJWZ28
The vette isn't bad,,,,but it still comes with too many cushy doodads to suit me.
He said sedan, apparently he needs 4 doors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
The 2000 cobra r was easy to get rid of cause they were badass and there was only 300ish made. Although the new 5.0 with 412hp blows the 5.4 385hp out of the water.
Sedans are 2 doors as well from my era :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinergy
Ya the HP numbers don't tell the whole story though, the Cobra R did everything better, and no A/C, roll up windows, no radio,,,that's my kinda car ;)
Too bad the production number was set in stone,,,they could have sold alot more if they wanted to.
Well I like my cars with radios as I love music and I have a motorcycle if I wanna go fast without tunes, windows doesnt matter to much and I have owned 2 cars without A/C. Didnt like the body on the cobra R either. I understand the cobra r was a purpose built beast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Well, I don't know if anyone mentioned this in this thread yet, but the new GT went 9's. Just from reading on Mustang forums, I read from a few guys that the car that ran those times definently has a decent shot of nitrous, 4 rear control arms, a C4 tranny, they relocated the battery, the car has race seats and slicks. And the tuning, that I do not know about. Maybe they figured out something with the cam timing or something like that, not so sure.
But, I personally have yet to see a stock longblock 5th gen in the 9's without some kind of heavy duty weight reduction (feel free to enlighten me if there is one out there that exists). And I'll tell you another thing, I find it funny how everyone thought the 5.0 was going to be pretty much maxxed out from the factory with it's compression ratio and whatnot, seems as if that theory has been proven wrong judging by what we have seen so far.
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Originally Posted by Transamws6
Eh,,,you said it has nitrous. Not so impressive in that respect. I'd expect it to be fast. I'm sure if you look around, you'll find a 5th gen in the 9's with some sort of power adder on it as well.
What I'd like to see is potential in naturally aspirated form,,,that's what speaks volumes about a car.
Yeah, I know it isn't actually a light car, but it is the only car that meets my expectations for a daily driver that doesn't weigh over 4000 pounds or cost $35k. 2000 Cobra R is a sweet car, but when I get a weekend car, it will be a Z06, with the weight further reduced by swapping lighter seats, hood, wheels, battery, etc, in addition to coilover suspension and engine mods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
has a 427ci in it ...along with the power adderQuote:
Originally Posted by Z28Thunder
Yup read that after the post and removed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
It's hard to believe they can't get a 2010 SS in the 9s with the stock bottom end.