need an ory for my pacesetters is the tsp still considered the best or is there something better can't take it to an exhaust shop.
Printable View
need an ory for my pacesetters is the tsp still considered the best or is there something better can't take it to an exhaust shop.
kooks or arh
There has been some reported issues with their recent ORY pipes. May want to do some research before you jump into that particular ORY.
I've ordered the Catted Y from LSXteme Performance- -they have a really nice ORY. The TSP has had some quality control issues, but Kooks and ARH are great quality pipes (they ought to be for the price!) Whatever you order may have fitment issues since you are trying to mate one company's pipes to another. They all angle things differently!
ARH has the best ORY on the market, their merge collectors have a better design and flow better than Kooks.
and im sure you can provide dyno numbers to support your claimQuote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
At this exact moment in time, no. However common sense says if something is smoother air will flow past it easier...sorta like a PP TB.Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
To the OP wondering:
Kooks:
http://www.byunspeed.com/images/KOO6402S.jpg
ARH:
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...s/FbodyARH.JPG
The basic difference is the Kooks y pipe is one pipe cut into the other one, whereas ARH has a better, smoother "true" merge design. Both are great designs. I wouldn't imagine the average person would feel any difference, but as we all know all of these small differences add up or show up on the dyno, if you're a dyno queen.
At second glance, it also looks as though the Kooks y pipe on the driver side has been flattened to resolve any clearance issues, I don't know if this smaller diameter would affect flow.
well, lets go back to basic math, the diameter of the pipe changes but the area of the air flowing through is the same, so i disagree. its still a 3 inch pipe just in a diffrent shape. you follow broski? ugh ughQuote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
lmao..i agree the circumference remains unchanged but the diameter will affect the speed of the air...Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
it's all just apples and oranges, LIGHT WEIGHT
Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
The shape does affect flow- think of it like water- a nice, straight pipe flows water very smoothly. Sharp bends will slow the flow. Changes in shape can cause disruptions in the smoothness of the flow. When applied to air, you create turbulance as you create disruptions. A poorly designed Y increases that turbulance and increases the amount of rasp. The goal with mandrel bends is to keep the flow as smooth and consistent as possible. This is the way I always understood it, but I'm sure there are people better qualified than I am to correctly explain it. :worship:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
lol all that was left is a argument about ypipes, as if they give you great HP gains if you pick one over the other.
i think we all know there going to net you AROUND the same HP. however, the OP is asking for the best, and as far as clearence/flow kooks and ARH are at the topQuote:
Originally Posted by karpetcm
Exactly, with the Y anything is going to get you more than stock and they may all net within a couple of HP. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive (next Tuesday or Wednesday) and I think I might be able to the LSXtreme Performance Y to that list.Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
I think part of the OP's question deals with what's best for the headers he's already purchased. That is going to not only deal with flow but more importantly FITMENT to those particular headers. Anyone out there with Pacesetters have any experience with how the Y's mate up to those headers?
ARH or Kooks are the two top, ARH just has a better design and clearance if you're into that sorta thing.
ehh, thats also arguable broski, the clearence on a kooks y is better than on an ARH y because of where its flattened for EXTRA clearence, which is why you argued ARH has a better flow design. stop contradicting yourself. UGH UGHQuote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
Hell, I'll be happy with my LSXtreme Performance Y for half the price... :spank2: heh...heh..
You're correct in that ARH found a way to not crush it's pipes to make it fit. :dance:Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
is you look at ARH and kooks side-by-side the ARH hangs lower than the kooks. FACT. :news:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
lol,. yes because kooks is crushed :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
fwiw, every installer I know who has installed both says ARH's tucks up nicer than Kooks..but what to those silly heads know. :screwy: thilly, thilly heads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
so which one is it? does it have better clearance? or is it kooks because they change the shape of their y-pipe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
Again. Let me type slower for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
Kooks has to crush their y pipe to make it fit. ARH does not have to crush their y pipe to make it fit.
Every installer I know says ARH tucks up nicer than Kooks despite not crushing their y pipe. I don't know what else to tel you. lol :Poke:
but you agreed ARH hangs lower than kooks? and said the reason it hangs lower is because they dont crush there y-pipe? so how is the clearance better if it hangs lower?
lol, why would I agree to something that's incorrect?Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
If you're talking about my "yes, because Kooks is crushed" comment; i was being facitious based on the fact that a company has to crush a pipe to make it fit rather than come up with a better design.
lol, I don't want to argue, if it makes you get better sleep at night, your crushed y pipe that doesn't have a "true" merge collector and doesn't tuck up compared to ARH is way better than mine.
Now here's a ****ing smiley dude riding a horse for no apparant reason. :horse:
:fap: now he's fapping
Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
this. /end you agreed ARH hangs lower than kooks/ :seesaw:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
You guys are friggin' killing me!:drunk2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
he's still fapping
I made it big and red this time. I apologize that my repetitive correcting of your assumption that my comment was not sarcastic has not been understood.
In case you missed everything I just said. My comment of "yes, because Kooks is crush" was sarcastic, facetious and all around a joke based on the fact that a company has to crush a pipe to make it fit.
And, no. No, again..every installer I know says that ARH's tuck up much better than Kooks.
Highlighting....Ctrl-c, putting Ctrl-V on standby...and we wait
Completely inaccurate. If circumference remains constant, the area of the cross-section is maximized if the shape is a circle. Anything other than circular results in decreased area.Quote:
Originally Posted by basballny2
You need to come to one of our family functions..:Pow: lol good timesQuote:
Originally Posted by bberretta
there's only one way to solve this. here's a pic of my ground clearance at its lowest point with my Kooks ORY. My ORY has been adjusted so it doesn't bang against the floor at all under any conditions. Stock suspension and tire size
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...8/DSC09464.jpg
Tsp ory...................not!!!!!!!!!
Will either the Kooks or the Arh hook up to the pasesetters? Which is the better overall fit? Thanks, Jimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
I'll take a Y with a real merge collector anyday over a Y with just 2 pipes welded together.Quote:
Originally Posted by bberretta
I've used the pacesetter Y's with the same design merge that the Kooks has. I wasn't impressed with the pacesetters so I'm staying away from any other brand with that design. If it doesn't have a real merge, I don't want it.
I can deal with fitment afterwards, that's the easy part.
I've seen pics of the LSXtreme Y pipe and it appears to be a very nice design (with a real merge). I am looking to remove both of my pacesetter Y's and change to something else. Was looking at Texas Speed Y's, but after seeing the LSXtreme I'm going to give those a shot.
As a guy with Kooks and really liking them, I have to admit I like the ARH better...from what I've seen so far. I still wanna see a ground clearance pic.
I wish I would have researched a tad more before i bought. I might have choosen the ARH for the not flat pipe and nice merge.
The gauntlet has been thrown- the ever-accurate, scientifically-precise "Miller Light Measurement". :Poke:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutlassthere's only one way to solve this. here's a pic of my ground clearance at its lowest point with my Kooks ORY. My ORY has been adjusted so it doesn't bang against the floor at all under any conditions. Stock suspension and tire size
You do realize I will have to buy a sixer just to do my measurement now! I mean, we have to be consistent, right?
Don't forget, that measurement is only accurate if the can is empty. :true:Quote:
Originally Posted by bberretta
I suppose if it comes down to fractions of an inch, I can break out the tape measure :D
Ohhhhhh...i drink bud :drool:Quote:
Originally Posted by bberretta
the mufflex ypipe is also a very nice piece... very very close to an ARH y.
the best ory is a custom built...period ...i am tired of my shitty ory from QTP..granted it has a true merge design...but i can take that merge and have a shop put the arms on it to get better clearance..
IF,,,,you can find a shop with a mandrel bender. I wouldn't be interested in anything with crush bends.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
oh i know...i just look dumber than i really am :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
:D I didn't mean to imply that, you're alright with me Shady.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
I'm still waiting for the Bud ARH clearance picture...or are you starting to realize the Kooks ORY tucks up better:whistle:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertiviper
do you have a bump stop? i do and my damn pacesetter y still hits the floorboard a little.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutlassthere's only one way to solve this. here's a pic of my ground clearance at its lowest point with my Kooks ORY. My ORY has been adjusted so it doesn't bang against the floor at all under any conditions. Stock suspension and tire size
nope I don't have that mufflex bumpstop and I don't have any banging issues
you can fix the banging issues with poly MM ya know.........
his car is loweredQuote:
Originally Posted by Cutlass
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02transamce
I don't use either method, I simply repositioned the driver side pipe and welded it back together for about a finger width of floor clearance.Quote:
Originally Posted by sjsingle1
That's all I needed to stop the banging with the stock motor mounts still on the car.
Here are pics of the LSXtreme Performance Catted-Y (I'll get some installed pics hopefully this weekend and pick up a case of Miller Lite to do the scientific measurement test!):
http://www.collaterallearning.com/pi...1unwrapped.JPG
http://www.collaterallearning.com/pi...02together.JPG
http://www.collaterallearning.com/pics/ypipe/03cat.JPG
http://www.collaterallearning.com/pi...pe/04ypipe.JPG
I'm liking what I see on the driver side of that Y. They took the time to actually mandrel bend the pipe for floor clearance rather than smash it or do nothing at all like some of the other Y's on the market.
It is a good looking pipe- clean welds, smooth bends, overall nice so far. I'll post more once I get it in the car and I can give a more complete review of it.
How much did the catted Y cost you and how did you order it?Quote:
Originally Posted by bberrettaHere are pics of the LSXtreme Performance Catted-Y (I'll get some installed pics hopefully this weekend and pick up a case of Miller Lite to do the scientific measurement test!):
To the O.P...
My brother and I just replaced the Pacesetter ORY on his 02 SS with a Texas Speed ORY. He has yet to take the car on a Test Drive since doing so (shitty weather mixed with having no time hasn't provided an opportunity yet).
As for for fitment and quality of the TSP Y-pipe, both are top notch. We struggled a little trying to get it pieced together on the car, but that was because of the way we tried to install it. We attempted to build it from the I-pipe of the catback forward to the headers. While I don't think this method would make the installation impossible, it sure as hell made it a bitch to get the pieces lined up.
Once we re-evaluated the situation we decided to loosen the hangers on the Catback and build the ORY off the headers back to the I-pipe. After that, we had the thing together in like 20 minutes.
Clearance between the body and the Y is great. As for ground clearance, I'd have to say its pretty good. Without a doubt, anytime you upgrade from the factory flattened Y-pipe to a full 3" ORY you're going to sacrifice some ground clearance. Its just the trade off you have to expect when you're looking for performance.
The only other Y-pipes I've installed are two sets of Jet Hot Y's. Both installed fairly simple, but they don't have a very good flowing merge, so I wouldn't recommend them.
The LSX Performance Y pictured above looks like a nice piece. The merge looks like it should flow very well and still have plenty of clearance to route through a Chassis Mounted Torque Arm Setup. (Such as the one I have on my Firebird.)
I'm curious the cost and where to get one of these, as well.
He's just getting off the ground so he's got a deal on them. Can't post links to sellers who aren't sponsors... already been slapped on the wrist for that one.
PM sent.
thanks everyone for the advise all i have to do now is come off the money thinkin tsp or lsx which ever i can get cheaper course i found the pace for 130 free ship so hard to pass up, how cheap to be is the ?
Pretty much any y is going to flow better than the factory pipe. The questions really are how well does it fit to your headers, how well does it fit to the car, and how well does the merge flow. That's where you start paying- ORY's range from $130 for that Pace to +$400 for the Kooks (on sale at Kentucky Speed) and there is a big difference in the merge and fit between those two. The LSX runs around $200 and the one they normally sell only fits the LSX headers. They make them to fit other headers as well, you just have to ask. I'm going to install mine tomorrow night and Saturday (had to put brakes on the wife's van tonight...) so I'll have a better idea of how they fit after Saturday.
Any update on fitment???
Unfortunately I had to leave town before I could finish the friggin' motor mounts- I'll finish the install on Saturday as long as I can get that driver side mount to line up.
Update on the LSXtreme catted Y-
Yeah, I know: :gotpics: but I'm having to wait until the rain passes so I can get back under the car. Did the install this weekend (those motor mounts were the most miserable experience of my life!) and after the mounts, the rest went smoothly. The headers were TIGHT but fit really well. The Y took me 15 minutes to install- literally. I seriously thought I was missing something so I triple checked everything- it was way too easy. As soon as I can get the car back in the shop and I get another case of Miller Light (went through all my beer fighting with those damn motor mounts!), I'll get a couple of pics and a review up.
...and here's the LSXtreme catted-Y at the lowest point- the cat. I'm sure the ORY tucks up slightly more. I do not have a bump stop and it does not hit at all. There's about a finger's width space between the floor and te pipe except where the cat is- its about a half-finger. This may not be as precise as the Miller Lite test, but the rim of the can fits easily under the pipe but hits the cat. Forgive the fingerprints- haven't cleaned it up yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutlassthere's only one way to solve this. here's a pic of my ground clearance at its lowest point with my Kooks ORY. My ORY has been adjusted so it doesn't bang against the floor at all under any conditions. Stock suspension and tire size
http://www.collaterallearning.com/pics/ypipe/can.jpg
As for my review:
Holy crap!
There- that sums it up. Even with the "stock" Firehawk dual/dual exhaust this sounds amazing. Performance is amazing, sound is amazing, even got a boost in mpg. It was a breeze to install (only mod was to shave a bit of the K which would have been easier had I done it the first time around- oops). Also, I'd recommend getting at least one of the smaller band clamps from LSX for the passenger side, but you need a total of 5 clamps to put it together. I'll try to get some sound clips once my wife recoups from her shoulder surgery but this is the best mod I've done so far.
Edit- my Hawk is stock height and stock tire size.
Excellent info.
Which headers did you mate this up to???
You appear to have more ground clearance then me and my ORY. But it looks awfully close to the body there (kinda looks like it touching the body from this angle), I'm surprised it doesn't bang the floor.
It is an 1/8- 1/4" from the floor. I'm with you- I thought for sure it would hit. I actually sent Justin at LSXtreme a text from under the car saying "are you sure?" but it doesn't hit. Now, part of that may be the poly mounts but it honestly doesn't budge. Yours pulls up higher at the I pipe- had to leave my tunnel brace off until I can get the torque arm and brace from kyspeed next month. What I need to find is my camera so I can get a better pic than just the iPhone (that and hit the y with some degreaser to get my fingerprints off of it!)
ahhh poly mounts. yep that'll help
They help unless you have little patience for the ordeal that goes into installing them! I know some people have said that they felt more chatter and bumps from the polys but to be honest, as bad as the stock bushings were in my car (138k miles!), the poly bushings actually smoothed things out.
anyone knows if LSXtreme still in business? anyone has their website link? I know the thread is old but Im wondering about the business. I can't find anything. Thanks.
I believe they have gone out of business here is the link from their fb page www.lsxtremeperformance.com it goes to a godaddy page though. Here is the phone number from their fb page as well, (708)724-9545. Like I said I believe they have gone out of business but I hope this helps you.
thanks. it looks like they are gone...
That LSXtreme catted-Y-pipe looks really nice, with the best merger I've seen on a prefabed y-pipe, it's to bad they went out of business.
Kooks makes good headers, but their y-pipe design leaves a lot to be desired. Even the ARH y-pipe merger could be a lot better.
IMO, is it really too much to ask for a top-notch header manufacture to make a top-notch y-pipe, or at least a option for a upgraded high flow/smooth transition merger?
LSXtreme was a sketchy company to start with. They just reboxed those cheap Chinese SS eBay headers and with a healthy mark up. And it sounds like in the end, they screwed a lot of people out of money.
oh wow I see. thanks for the update Cutlass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutlass
I agree Blue, it's not too much to ask for these companies to put a nice merge collector in there. But they build them as cheap as they can to sell them as cheap as they can. And really it's the buying market that's doing it. People won't buy a $200-$300 Y pipe even if it is constructed better when you can buy cheaply made units for $129. People just don't put emphasis on how well made things are, they just judge by the pocket book. It's a shame really when you go through the trouble of installing headers and an off road Y all in the name of more HP, but then leave some on the table because they don't care about how the Y is made. Just not going that last extra bit to complete the package makes all the other effort seem pointless to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue28
I will say this though, for $129 it appears Texas Speed is now selling a stainless Y (cheap grade of stainless but still) that appears to have at least a decent merge collector. Or at least there is an attempt to merge the pipes rather than just "T" them together like others are doing.
do you need to put the tunnel brace back on or can you leave it off I can shim it down if I have to
You can leave it off if you choose to.
