Water leaking into the driver's rear floorpan

Hi,

I have 2001 Z28 with about 145,000 miles. I live in Florida where it rains everyday during the summer. Yesterday I discovered that my driver's side rear floor mat was damp. I did not leave the windows down, so there must be another source. I've run into a wall trying to find it and I'd like some help.


At first I thought it was just the floor area in front of the rear seat that was wet. But as I felt around, I found that the underside of the rear seat itself was wet as well. So I removed both the rear seat cushions. This is what I saw underneath.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...DampCarpet.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...DampCarpet.jpg

Upon examining the seats themselves, I realized that this issue has been around for a while. Note, the carpet on the hump in between the two wells is not wet and doesn't appear to be wet at all.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...2DampSeats.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...2DampSeats.jpg

I removed the seat back bench and plastic siding so I could peel back the carpet and get a better look. This is a pic of what I saw.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...moveSiding.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...moveSiding.jpg

As I peeled back the carpet, I realized just how much water I had inside the car

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...BackCarpet.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...BackCarpet.jpg

There was a soaking wet piece of padding on the side wall that I removed (and will likely have to replace). Beneath it was really sticky black patch of something. I couldn't peel it back without it coming apart. I don't know what it's doing so I left it alone.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...vedPadding.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...vedPadding.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l.../06CloseUp.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l.../06CloseUp.jpg

Given how wet the padding was, I figured the leak must be somewhere around that black patch. Then I noticed this on the frame behind the rear seat back next to the wheel well.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...fWheelWell.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...fWheelWell.jpg

Looks like a water trail leading down the back of the frame. Incidentally, I found some sort of mud wasp tube near the seat belt connection. Not sure how it got there.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...rnateAngle.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...rnateAngle.jpg

I couldn't figure out which area was more likely the cause of the leak. I decided to clean everything up to see if it looked any different.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...theProblem.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...theProblem.jpg

I'm still not sure. Does anyone have any ideas?

Also, I couldn't remove the hex bolts holding the seat belt pulleys in place. I don't have a hex screwdriver big enough. I tried a large allen wrench, but it almost broke off in my hand. Is there a trick to removing these things? Do they have lock-tite or something else on them?

I'd appreciate any help you guys can provide.

As for the seat belts use a Torx socket.... T45 or T50 somewhere in there....


I cant see your pics tho, I have refreshed 5 times.... :redx:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FORD RECOVERY EXPERT

As for the seat belts use a Torx socket.... T45 or T50 somewhere in there....


I cant see your pics tho, I have refreshed 5 times.... :redx:

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Thanks, Ill go look for those this weekend. I added direct links for the pics. Not sure why they aren't showing up in thread.

Looks like the hatch seal. Right @ the bend, I can see rust starting there just under the lower lip of the seal..

http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...moveSiding.jpg

I see. What should I do to fix this, caulk it w/ silicon?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thewilldog

I see. What should I do to fix this, caulk it w/ silicon?

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Honestly I'd replace the entire seal. You could use silicone, but it may just go bad elsewhere later.

Also the hatch may not be closeing enough to get a good seal there. You could try to adjust the rubber stoppers. They just twist like a screw. But if you adjust too far it will throw off the body lines @ the rear of the hatch.

Wow thats alot of water in there. Be careful how you park it, as I notice when I park mine in the driveway facing down at an angle the water just puddles in those corners heavily and eventually might leak down to the inside like yours. Best to park it with the rear down and nose up.

i have a 91 camaro that did the same thing. i noticed that it was leaking through the rear hatch because i parked on a hill and when it rained the water would collect in the little grooves where the rubber seals would attach to the back glass and just pour in when it filled up. i turned the car around and it never leaked again

My 01 Camaro never leaks. I take care of the gaskets too. I've been using black magic since I got her 4 yrs ago. I even treat the spare tire too. But as far as the hatch goes I can park in any direction with no leaks. If it were me depending on your money situation, I'd go ahead and just replace it. The sharp body edge that the gasket sits on maybe cutting into the under side of your gasket. Silicone may work, but as I was saying earlier it may not and then possibly leak elsewhere too..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 98CamaroSS

Wow thats alot of water in there. Be careful how you park it, as I notice when I park mine in the driveway facing down at an angle the water just puddles in those corners heavily and eventually might leak down to the inside like yours. Best to park it with the rear down and nose up.

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Hadn't thought of that. I usually back into my drive way which has a slight upward angle to it, so the nose is lower than the tail.

I took another look a the hatch this morning and found this.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...intheHatch.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...intheHatch.jpg

It's a hole, but it's really not far from where the gap between the hatch and the read deck begins anyway.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...rnateAngle.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...rnateAngle.jpg

I took a look at the rear deck, but I didn't find any water damage.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...mageinRear.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...mageinRear.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...thnoCarpet.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...thnoCarpet.jpg

I'm not really sure how water is getting to that spot Smittro pointed out. I'm going to leave the seats out and the paneling off for a while. Next time it rains, I look for the leak.

You could always get a bucket of water and pour it over the area too(hatch closed of course) then get inside and see if you can see exactly where it's getting in. Or take the nozle off of your garden hose and lay it on the roof pointing at the hatch and let it run, then hop inside and have a look see.

I feel fortunate now to have a garage, but back in the day I had a grand prix that had a leak in the trunk. I used water with a slight tint of food coloring to track down the trouble area.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckie669

I feel fortunate now to have a garage, but back in the day I had a grand prix that had a leak in the trunk. I used water with a slight tint of food coloring to track down the trouble area.

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LOL, me too. Had a 90 grand prix, leaked like crazy. It used to fill up the spare tire well lol. I pulled out the rubber stopper @ the bottom of the well and let it drain about once a month or so. The constant wet caused the jack to be ruined lol..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smittro

LOL, me too. Had a 90 grand prix, leaked like crazy. It used to fill up the spare tire well lol. I pulled out the rubber stopper @ the bottom of the well and let it drain about once a month or so. The constant wet caused the jack to be ruined lol..

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Guess it was common then. We had a huge storm and came out to find a foot of standing water in the trunk of my 96 gp. I checked underneath and then took my power drill and drilled three small holes in the lowest spots. Later turned out the gasket at back window was shot, even tho it looked good.

i feel ya on this one buddy. mine's doing the same thing just on the passenger front floor. after a storm two weeks ago, i had over an inch of standing water!!!!!

get it taken care of soon so you don't rust :)

You gotta figure the seals are about 10 years old now & are showing their age.

Don't use silcone on the car. It will not seal the leak for more than a few months and you will end up putting more of it on.
Your better off replacing the hatch seal, then you just have to deal with the rust.
Leave the torx bolts alone unless you have to remove then. The bits break and the top of the bolt strips easily. :ahh:They are lock-tited. If you have to remove the torx bolts, use a torch to heat the threads first.
:goodluck:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Z28_Driver

Don't use silcone on the car. It will not seal the leak for more than a few months and you will end up putting more of it on.
Your better off replacing the hatch seal, then you just have to deal with the rust.
Leave the torx bolts alone unless you have to remove then. The bits break and the top of the bolt strips easily. :ahh:They are lock-tited. If you have to remove the torx bolts, use a torch to heat the threads first.
:goodluck:

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This is not so much true of the Large Torx. The correct socket will do the job swell. The torch Idea is bad:no:.... Especially inside the car...

:welder: = :fire: :lol:

If it seems to tough to move Tap it with a hammer a few times.

Also, The hose idea is your quickest route, Close urself in the car, And have someone run the hose on it, till you see water comin in....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FORD RECOVERY EXPERT

This is not so much true of the Large Torx. The correct socket will do the job swell. The torch Idea is bad:no:.... Especially inside the car...

:welder: = :fire: :lol:

If it seems to tough to move Tap it with a hammer a few times.

Also, The hose idea is your quickest route, Close urself in the car, And have someone run the hose on it, till you see water comin in....

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Just speaking from experience. And all 5 of then were the correct size and type of torx bit. 3 I purchased and 2 the body shop I eventually took the car to had on hand. They said it was a common problem.
A hammer won't do shit once they rust in place!

Update -

I finally found the cause of the leak using a cup of water and a spotter. It was actually where the T-top meets the edge of the roof.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...1FoundLeak.jpg

Any water that made it into the grove behind the T-top would run down the length of the interior sidewall.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...02LeakPath.jpg

I took a few beads of clear silicone and pressed it into the gap between the white painted roof and the black painted joint.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...r/03TheFix.jpg

Thus far this step has prevented any more water running down the interior sidewall. Now when water that collects behind the T-Tops runs down a chute on the outside of the car and exits here.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l.../04NewExit.jpg

I'm guessing this is how water is normally supposed to exit. I'm happy enough with the fix to everything back together.

Oh. and I found out that all those torx screws were T45's. I picked up a T45 bit socket from Home Depot; works like a charm.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...TorxSocket.jpg

Thanks for all the advice.

Glad to hear it worked out for you!

A body guy told me that silicone contains vinegar (hence the odour), and will eventually cause rust on any steel parts it is on due to the acidic nature of vinagar. For sealing body panels, use body sealer (GM used it on their cars from factory). Replace those collapsed T top gaskets, hatch gaskets and you will notce how "puffy" they are compared to your original stuff!

I knew there was a problem with the silicone failing, but I thought it was due to the temperature extremes. I fixed a leaking trunk with it on another car awhile back. It failed over the winter. The body seam sealer worked a lot better and is still holding in that car almost 10 years later. I would have brought it up earlier, but I completely forgot about that stuff.

Mine leaks like crazy in the trunk floor.
Pretty sure that is not coming from the t-tops.
Might try replacing the hatch seal, seems pretty wimpy to begin with.

Alan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pewter2002

A body guy told me that silicone contains vinegar (hence the odour), and will eventually cause rust on any steel parts it is on due to the acidic nature of vinagar. For sealing body panels, use body sealer (GM used it on their cars from factory). Replace those collapsed T top gaskets, hatch gaskets and you will notce how "puffy" they are compared to your original stuff!

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I can't see that being true. It is used on boats all the time to seal bolts.

Well i place a strip of temporay caulk tape in there to see if that helps. This gives me more of an idea of what to look for

i was fixing to say it was the t tops......when it rains i can watch mine drip in the rear corners......both sides :mad:

i think im gonna have to pony up the dough on this one. i think i need new driver side ttop and door seals :( I did hear for another guy that has a 3rd gen camaro with ttops that peanut oil helps "freshen" the old seals up a little. I have no idea though. Im gonna test this out this weekend and see if it helps. cant hurt. I got water coming in everywhere on the drivers side. its killing me. AND OF COURSE ITS ALWAYS RAINING IN GERMANY!!!!!!!

silicone grease will help preserve the seals.
not sure if it will help once they are shot.
good luck with the rain.

the problem with peanut oil, silicone grease and any other oil you put on is that will start to get into the black trim piece at the top of the door. After a while it will start to smear the window with the grease or oil everytime you roll the window up and down. That was my experience with it and I always cleaned the excess or oil and grease.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JayTA98

the problem with peanut oil, silicone grease and any other oil you put on is that will start to get into the black trim piece at the top of the door. After a while it will start to smear the window with the grease or oil everytime you roll the window up and down. That was my experience with it and I always cleaned the excess or oil and grease.

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I guess that could be an issue. I just want the water to stay out of my car for the winter. At least its snowing now and the water is frozen lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JayTA98

the problem with peanut oil, silicone grease and any other oil you put on is that will start to get into the black trim piece at the top of the door. After a while it will start to smear the window with the grease or oil everytime you roll the window up and down. That was my experience with it and I always cleaned the excess or oil and grease.

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I never used it either, just heard it worked. I don't have to worry about t-top leaks. the hardtop stays nice and dry as long as I stay away from high pressure washing.