What Next, I Need More Hp!!!

Its finally happened...I've become addicted. Some of you may recognize me, I've posted here more than a little in the past...but here's a quick summary.

2002 WS6 A4 with pretty much all the basic bolt ons: headers, highflow catted Y, catback, 180 T-stat, slp lid, filter, bellows, Ram Air, debaffled hood, new plugs & wires, dyno tune and tranny cooler. Also sfcs, stb, sway bars.

But now what...I'm told a torque converter is a good drag racing mod but I don't think I want to go that way right now. Where can I get the most kick in the pants for the least buck.

Perhaps a cam? and something to get the tranny to firm up a bit...but not the converter (yet) Any input welcome.

Pretty sure for best would be a convertor but you don't want to do that. Spend $200 and get a UD pulley free up some up. Cam upgrade is great but it get the most out of you should complment with a set of gears and a stall convertor

what were your dyno results with your list of mods?

You can get gears for about 150-200 and installation is about 200-250 which for sure will do its job. Later on when you get the torque converter it will compliment each other nicely. Other then that nitrous. The cam will definitly help out as well especially with your other mods, so you have some choices.

1st I'll say a 3,600 stall is by far your best first mod, mine is a dd, I went with 3,000 and wish I went bigger.
get a tranny cooler, have torque management removed, lower shift delay and raise firmness.
to save some money, look on ebay and search "ls1 cam" look for the "hr284 (fresh cam copy), cost $115 +$17 shipping.
with the money you save you can buy comp 918 valve springs.
the cam is 220/224 .570/.580 with your choice of 112,114 or 116lsa. I have the 112lsa and love it.....there again I could go bigger but can't justify $400+ for a cam

wowzers...for 1..most cams you will look at need a better converter then stock....a good stall..like a yank 3600 will net you huge gains under the curve (where you are for 99% of the time) peak is nice for bragging to supras...but power under the curve and low ETs are the only thing that matters...a great stall will drop your times .5-.7 depending on the situation...thats huge....also remember..a cam is just stick...without the properly match heads..sorta like lance Armstrong's heart in a 500lb computer geek

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Originally Posted by shady milkman

sorta like lance Armstrong's heart in a 500lb computer geek

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love it! lol

wow, so many replys...gotta love you guys.

Ok, first off converters. I was thinking next year on this one because they are in the $500 plus range (from what I saw in a quick look around) and I was quoted 8 hours to install...thats another $500. The plan was to maybe find a good deal on one somewhere and get a mechanically inclined friend to put it in next summer when they move back here.

Now a stall, excuse my ignorance of its exact function, but someone said something to the effect of "area under the curve on a dyno graph" Do they actually affect power output to the wheels like that, I had assumbed they let you store up more potential energy at launch, but I didn't think they would affect your rwhp numbers across the graph on a dyno run.

As for gears, I'm not interested (not matter how much ET I might save) just because my car is primarily a highway cruiser and I need all the MPG and low rpms I can get.....btw I am so jealous of you M6 guys and your double overdrive.

As for what I'm pulling now...I'm trying to remember the final #'s there were 6 or 7 pulls...but 330hp and 344ftlbs is about right. How much would underdrive pullies really free up, and are they worth it, I heard they can lead to issues (don't remember why, balance issues perhaps?)

"have torque management removed, lower shift delay and raise firmness" .... This intrigues me somewhat. I'm not certain what shift delay is, can anyone elaborate...if I'm messing around and pull it into a lower gear it does take forever to go back up once I move it back up. I have to do it around 5500rpms so that the shift will happen before I hit the 6350rpm limiter. But I doubt thats the delay your referring to.

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Originally Posted by Intrepidman

wow, so many replys...gotta love you guys.

Ok, first off converters. I was thinking next year on this one because they are in the $500 plus range (from what I saw in a quick look around) and I was quoted 8 hours to install...thats another $500. The plan was to maybe find a good deal on one somewhere and get a mechanically inclined friend to put it in next summer when they move back here.

Now a stall, excuse my ignorance of its exact function, but someone said something to the effect of "area under the curve on a dyno graph" Do they actually affect power output to the wheels like that, I had assumbed they let you store up more potential energy at launch, but I didn't think they would affect your rwhp numbers across the graph on a dyno run.

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ok i am going to break this up a little... first about torque converters and str try these sites

here
and here

i personally i am fan of yank and circle D TCs...those are the only two brands i would use IMO... You can wait to get one..but its really just as important as headers when it comes to pushing numbers and the engine

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Originally Posted by Intrepidman

As for what I'm pulling now...I'm trying to remember the final #'s there were 6 or 7 pulls...but 330hp and 344ftlbs is about right. How much would underdrive pullies really free up, and are they worth it, I heard they can lead to issues (don't remember why, balance issues perhaps?)

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a UD pulley will not net you much..maybe 5-8 to the floor ..but it will greatly improve throttle response. I would wait on the UD Pulley...the issues some people will run into is 1..they will buy a non harmonic dampened pulley...this causes harmonic vibrations that will over time weaken the block etc...most cars however will never run into this problem...When i get a UD pulley(way down the road) i will get a March UD pulley that has the harmonic dampener just like stock..this will help with the harmonic vibrations...the big problem is that with a UD pulley ..it turns the accessories slower..so it can cause issues with the alternator , power steering etc ..that is why many people get the alt. pulley also.

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Originally Posted by Intrepidman

"have torque management removed, lower shift delay and raise firmness" .... This intrigues me somewhat. I'm not certain what shift delay is, can anyone elaborate...if I'm messing around and pull it into a lower gear it does take forever to go back up once I move it back up. I have to do it around 5500rpms so that the shift will happen before I hit the 6350rpm limiter. But I doubt thats the delay your referring to.

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shift delay is the "pause" right before the shift..if you notice..the car will kind of just hold on a little longer then normal and just pause..(someone correct me if i am wrong) but this is basically clutch slippage ..to produce a softer/smoother shift....I just got my car tuned by Frost and he really woke my car up with the transmission tuning etc he did ...the firmness is outstanding ..and matched with not torque management...the 2-3 shift is damn near brutal ...while brutal probably might scare you ..it shouldnt..its now like a m6 car shifting...the car hits 2 and 3 very firm and the car just bites..and that is good for your transmission to btw.....what i will do once i get a stall soon..is also get a nice big trans cooler and a shift kit to complete the package...i have got many compliments about how my car hits now.

Actually I was just talking to a guy at the local tranny shop. He was telling me that he would not want to use a shift kit in our trannies. He's particularly not fond of B&M. What he suggested was sticking in a new silenoid (pretty sure that's what he said) a silenoid from a corvette.

I do have a tranny cooler by the way, but its not very big. I ordered the biggest one listed on LMperformance's website (from a different supplier though) and when it arrived it was maybe....8"x12"

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Originally Posted by Intrepidman

Actually I was just talking to a guy at the local tranny shop. He was telling me that he would not want to use a shift kit in our trannies. He's particularly not fond of B&M. What he suggested was sticking in a new silenoid (pretty sure that's what he said) a silenoid from a corvette.

I do have a tranny cooler by the way, but its not very big. I ordered the biggest one listed on LMperformance's website (from a different supplier though) and when it arrived it was maybe....8"x12"

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a shift kit that is not a bad thing..as long as you take into account the type of trans you got..if you have a stock one..dont push the line-pressure etc through the roof...careful research will allow you to use a shift kit and tailor it to your needs

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Originally Posted by Intrepidman

I do have a tranny cooler by the way, but its not very big. I ordered the biggest one listed on LMperformance's website (from a different supplier though) and when it arrived it was maybe....8"x12"

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btu's is the only thing that matters...physical size does not

I picked my TCI 3,000 stall for $140 shipped off Ebay. it was listed as slightly used, but when I opened the box the damn thing looked brand new......becareful and check feedback, but Ebay is the way to go

I have a 2000 WS6 A4 with 3500 stall, 228R cam, 3.90 gears, underdrive pulleys. Of the four, I'd say go for the stall. It will liven up your drive a lot. Gears are fun too, if you like roasting the tires. Cam is by far the best, but pricey. I did all these installs myself, so the highlight for me was the actual install!

Something esle to consider... pulling up next to someone and letting them hear the lope of your cam is so sweet!

One other thing... I saw you're hooked on modding your LS1.... me too, all of us are! I ordered my TA in 1999 and figured I'd just have one hell of a daily driver. Little did I know I would become fixated on it, get mod happy and spend so much time and money making it into a monster! Damn I love this car!

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Originally Posted by mark21742

I picked my TCI 3,000 stall for $140 shipped off Ebay. it was listed as slightly used, but when I opened the box the damn thing looked brand new......becareful and check feedback, but Ebay is the way to go

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You are a rare exception

If you are against gears and a converter how about a head swap? You get 20-30rwhp depending on the heads (worked not stock 243's) or more and keep your mpg's, you would need pushrods and headgaskets.

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Originally Posted by c5z28

You are a rare exception

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Would not matter if it was a trashed stall... TCI will redo a convertor even if it is not one of theirs for 150.. Yes you will have to pay shipping... But that is way cheaper than new.. And you can choose what kinda of stall you want it to be.

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Originally Posted by c5z28

You are a rare exception

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just took my time.....plus one of my friends is an Ebay addict

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Originally Posted by Z28Thunder

Would not matter if it was a trashed stall... TCI will redo a convertor even if it is not one of theirs for 150.. Yes you will have to pay shipping... But that is way cheaper than new.. And you can choose what kinda of stall you want it to be.

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I had a tci 3600:blah:, the main thing was the op did not want a stall and I like to give mark a hard time

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Originally Posted by c5z28

I had a tci 3600:blah:, the main thing was the op did not want a stall and I like to give mark a hard time

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yeah I know where he is coming from, I thought the same way he did about stalls, but.......not getting a stall kinda kills the build from the start....stock these motors really want a 3,600 stall.
I still find it hard to justify $500 stall, but you almost need one off the bat with an auto :(
lol and hey man, dish it out I can take it.....guess its about time for me to troll your site again lol

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Originally Posted by mark21742

yeah I know where he is coming from, I thought the same way he did about stalls, but.......not getting a stall kinda kills the build from the start....stock these motors really want a 3,600 stall.
I still find it hard to justify $500 stall, but you almost need one off the bat with an auto :(
lol and hey man, dish it out I can take it.....guess its about time for me to troll your site again lol

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try justifying a $800 yank stall :D

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Originally Posted by c5z28

If you are against gears and a converter how about a head swap? You get 20-30rwhp depending on the heads (worked not stock 243's) or more and keep your mpg's, you would need pushrods and headgaskets.

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Interesting, I hadn't thought of swapping in heads alone without a cam...you say you can still get decent gains that way.

Labour is the wild card though. How many hours would a typical shop charge to swap heads, or to swap a cam. Is doing both at once a savings of time compared to doing one then later the other?

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Originally Posted by 666ws6

Something esle to consider... pulling up next to someone and letting them hear the lope of your cam is so sweet!

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Just how much lope are we talking, with something like a 112lsa is it blatant? I love that sound, but its not exactly a "sleeper" mod. lol

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Originally Posted by c5z28

If you are against gears and a converter how about a head swap? You get 20-30rwhp depending on the heads (worked not stock 243's) or more and keep your mpg's, you would need pushrods and headgaskets.

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do NOT swap heads and leave a stock cam in there. The opened up runners will hurt things down low and since you cam is just plain dead up top, there is little to nothing to gain. I tuned an 01 A4 Vette recently with boltons and heads only. It made 335rwhp. That's what I'd expect it to make WITHOUT the heads.

You have to have the stall before the cam, and the cam will cost more than the stall installed. You WANT the converter, you just don't know it yet :)

ZEX wet nitrous 75HP - 175 HP, $550 is the best bang for your buck and you don't use it unless you want to cook some rice.
Suggest investing in a window switch to shut it down during shifts from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd.
Yank 3600 stall is good idea along with the trans tune.
If you want to get radical go with the heads and cam and the N20
Too much is never enough!

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Originally Posted by shady milkman

try justifying a $800 yank stall :D

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and that my friend is why I have a TCI lol

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Originally Posted by Frost

You WANT the converter, you just don't know it yet :)

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i like it, that is the perfect way to put it Frost:cheers:

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Originally Posted by jambofla

If you want to get radical go with the heads and cam and the N20
Too much is never enough!

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Oh a man can dream...but that sounds like a lot of broken parts to me. I have ZERO experience to base decisions upon myself so all I'm going on is what I get here and from other guys talking cars. But with any more than full bolt ons I'm starting to risk the 10bolt and possibly the tranny..aren't I.
(Though I'm sure not using any tire more radical than a 315 nitto 555 street tire does help me avoid breakage somewhat)

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Originally Posted by Intrepidman

Oh a man can dream...but that sounds like a lot of broken parts to me. I have ZERO experience to base decisions upon myself so all I'm going on is what I get here and from other guys talking cars. But with any more than full bolt ons I'm starting to risk the 10bolt and possibly the tranny..aren't I.
(Though I'm sure not using any tire more radical than a 315 nitto 555 street tire does help me avoid breakage somewhat)

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traction kills the 10 bolt..with a stall ...traction will become a issue..since it is nearly impossible to hook up..with you being a street machine...traction is not a issue ...
also worth noting that torque +traction = no more 10 bolt...but you being on street radials and mostly only street driving on a auto..you should not be worried

Go with a Head/Cam Combo!:woot2:

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Originally Posted by Frost

do NOT swap heads and leave a stock cam in there. The opened up runners will hurt things down low and since you cam is just plain dead up top, there is little to nothing to gain. I tuned an 01 A4 Vette recently with boltons and heads only. It made 335rwhp. That's what I'd expect it to make WITHOUT the heads.

You have to have the stall before the cam, and the cam will cost more than the stall installed. You WANT the converter, you just don't know it yet :)

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I know you are on ls1tech what about that guy who did the head only swap and got over 400rwhp(I know it was a ls2). For me I have some truck heads, ported bigger valve springs and milled to 58cc, what kind of heads was the vette running?

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Originally Posted by c5z28

I know you are on ls1tech what about that guy who did the head only swap and got over 400rwhp(I know it was a ls2). For me I have some truck heads, ported bigger valve springs and milled to 58cc, what kind of heads was the vette running?

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The LS2 cam is much more suited to those numbers then the cams in the 99-00 vettes / F-bodies though. All I can remember for sure was they were stg2 by some large board sponsor on tech and were 61ish CC's and the vette was a 99.

There are exceptions but that vette marked the 3rd 3rd gen setup I've seen that was heads only that had very little gain. Another local car made around 350-360 with boltons and TEA heads and stock cam. I just generally try to prepare people for the possibility up front.

Ok, if I toss in a cam and a stall I'm going to be launching "realatively gently" from there on out (due to the 315/35/17 street 555 nitto's I run)...yet still harder than my best launch now, I assume, and thereby saving a little ET off the line.
But mostly I will be making more power thanks to the cam, and realizing more power thanks to the new torque converter and saving a lot of ET down the rest of the track.

Is this all sounding right so far??? Please correct me if not. This would actually be a good set up for me over being an off the line monster that isn't as strong down track. I think I'm going to be "racing down" a lot so I won't need to be making big digs off the line, but if some kid pops N20 halfway down the track I'm going to need to be able to get fully on it and come back past him.

Now breakage wise, I assume the initial launch is the the harshest part of the run, even on wide street tires...or would the 1-2 shift be worse (as the tires will hook for that one) ?
I have to plan my set up around "Survivability" I can't be risking the tranny or the 10 bolt....or at least doing what I can to minimize risk.

so what makes a good cam?

HELP... I cant figure out how to post a new thread...

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Originally Posted by Kamarobuddy

so what makes a good cam?

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Originally Posted by Kamarobuddy

HELP... I cant figure out how to post a new thread...

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that isnt they way................also search....this has been beaten to death...in short..a good cam is a cam that fits your exact set up and your goals

I have a A4 and added 3.73's and still get over 20mpg on the highway and alot more kick. TCI 3000 stall is next then I wanna get a C6 vette. After the Hertz rental I had for 4 days I was in love. The paddles and LS3 is awsome.

i also have a a4 lots of boltons, scrapped the 2.73 for 3.42,great exchange but the stall did the trick,do not get the tci,i was going to get a yank 3000 but ended up with a fuddle 3400 for the same price and better stall.
all i have left now is the weiand street warrior intake,and scorpion 1.8 rockers
also when ya start adding power and changing gears and stall,ya need the suspension to back it up, i did subframe,lca,panhard,torquearm all from umi.
you never know how crappy the stock suspension is untill you bolt on the goods,also did kyb gr2 shocks.

http://www.fuddleracing.com/p3400.html
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...pping_cart.php
http://kentucky-speed.com/camaro-fir...244ef3dc59ee05
http://www.jegs.com/p/Weiand/Weiand-...87690/10002/-1

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Originally Posted by lovedrvr

i also have a a4 lots of boltons, scrapped the 2.73 for 3.42,great exchange but the stall did the trick,do not get the tci,i was going to get a yank 3000 but ended up with a fuddle 3400 for the same price and better stall.
all i have left now is the weiand street warrior intake,and scorpion 1.8 rockers
also when ya start adding power and changing gears and stall,ya need the suspension to back it up, i did subframe,lca,panhard,torquearm all from umi.
you never know how crappy the stock suspension is untill you bolt on the goods,also did kyb gr2 shocks.

http://www.fuddleracing.com/p3400.html
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...pping_cart.php
http://kentucky-speed.com/camaro-fir...244ef3dc59ee05
http://www.jegs.com/p/Weiand/Weiand-...87690/10002/-1

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fuddle is better then yank huh ?

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Originally Posted by shady milkman

fuddle is better then yank huh ?

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no they DEFINITELY are not. John Fuddle just buys remans from a builder that is local to him and puts his name on them. The Yank pieces are not just remanned OEM converters like that. They are much tighter under flash than the Fuddle units and much more effecient up top, so they consistently yield better results.

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Originally Posted by Frost

no they DEFINITELY are not. John Fuddle just buys remans from a builder that is local to him and puts his name on them. The Yank pieces are not just remanned OEM converters like that. They are much tighter under flash than the Fuddle units and much more effecient up top, so they consistently yield better results.

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:yup: oh i know ..it was more of a sarcastic question towards him ..yank and circle D are the best of the best from my understanding

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Originally Posted by lovedrvr

i also have a a4 lots of boltons, scrapped the 2.73 for 3.42,great exchange but the stall did the trick,do not get the tci,i was going to get a yank 3000 but ended up with a fuddle 3400 for the same price and better stall.
all i have left now is the weiand street warrior intake,and scorpion 1.8 rockers
also when ya start adding power and changing gears and stall,ya need the suspension to back it up, i did subframe,lca,panhard,torquearm all from umi.
you never know how crappy the stock suspension is untill you bolt on the goods,also did kyb gr2 shocks.

http://www.fuddleracing.com/p3400.html
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...pping_cart.php
http://kentucky-speed.com/camaro-fir...244ef3dc59ee05
http://www.jegs.com/p/Weiand/Weiand-...87690/10002/-1

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why not get a TCI?

now now dont want a flame war,buy what ya want,yank is great,fuddle is also great for the money and i ment better than tci,from all i have read they are crap.

but 900 for a yank was not in my budget,550 for a fuddle 3400 is a fair price.
just like the fast 90/90 is good but for the money not worth it to me for a street toy,ill wait for the weiand warrior or just get the bbk if the warrior fails to come out.

have fun guys,for us street toy guys its all about fun on a managable budget.

and if ya believe all ya read..........http://www.fuddleracing.com/StandardConverters.html :giveup:

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Originally Posted by lovedrvr

now now dont want a flame war,buy what ya want,yank is great,fuddle is also great for the money and i ment better than tci,from all i have read they are crap.

but 900 for a yank was not in my budget,550 for a fuddle 3400 is a fair price.
just like the fast 90/90 is good but for the money not worth it to me for a street toy,ill wait for the weiand warrior or just get the bbk if the warrior fails to come out.

have fun guys,for us street toy guys its all about fun on a managable budget.

and if ya believe all ya read..........http://www.fuddleracing.com/StandardConverters.html :giveup:

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I have heard mixed reveiws on the TCI's, lol but mine works good for my app and for $140 shipped I couldn't complain about the price.
hell, in my opinion all the parts are too expensive, but I guess like the old saying goes "you gotta pay to play" lol

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Originally Posted by lovedrvr

now now dont want a flame war,buy what ya want,yank is great,fuddle is also great for the money and i ment better than tci,from all i have read they are crap.

but 900 for a yank was not in my budget,550 for a fuddle 3400 is a fair price.
just like the fast 90/90 is good but for the money not worth it to me for a street toy,ill wait for the weiand warrior or just get the bbk if the warrior fails to come out.

have fun guys,for us street toy guys its all about fun on a managable budget.

and if ya believe all ya read..........http://www.fuddleracing.com/StandardConverters.html :giveup:

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:) its all good

yes btw,if ya want a fuddle(or 1 from the guy that makes them)
call howard at 801-954-0825.
he is great to deal with no bullshit about him
you will never get a e-mail or talk to john at fuddle,he is a waste of time.

Just so you know although the stall is the mod you want, you are probably going to break something.

I'm willing to bet it will be the trans before the 10-bolt. And I'd stick with yank or circle D but that's just me.

I had an SS3600 and it was great, but i just put in the SS4000. Haven't really tried it out yet, but you won't be dissappointed, just be prepared to fix things and have more money saved.

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Originally Posted by allbaugh_04

Just so you know although the stall is the mod you want, you are probably going to break something.

I'm willing to bet it will be the trans before the 10-bolt. And I'd stick with yank or circle D but that's just me.

I had an SS3600 and it was great, but i just put in the SS4000. Haven't really tried it out yet, but you won't be dissappointed, just be prepared to fix things and have more money saved.

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how many miles on that ss3600 :D