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I want to either get the MS3 cam, or the Torquer 2 cam, both from Texas Speed, obviously. I have a 2000 Z28 and my mods are SLP CAI, LT's, ORY, and SLP Loudmouth with a M6 tranny. I have heard great things from other people about both cams. The Torquer 2 making a little more on the Tq side. What do yall think?
You are upgrading your pushrods, valve springs, etc, at the same time as the cam upgrade correct?
You could always go with a custom grind cam...
Yes, springs and pushrods are getting upgraded as well. I wouldn't really know what to get if I got a custom grind
What are you looking to do with your car in the long run? Track or driven daily?
I just want a fast street car
Ill be going with a cam like the torquer but with a 110lsa.
And i want the same thing, a fast street car.
Well if you get it soon, let me know what you think
Wont be till summer. Im just not for the MS3 because of the power band it has. I want one from about 2500 to between 6000 and 6500. I dont wanna be revving over 6500. MS3 makes power all the way to 7
Thats about the same power band I want
If you want to look into getting a custom cam then go PM Patrick G or Predator Z over on tech and tell them what you want such as street or strip cam, goals (1/4), plans (mods and or future mods), etc and they'll set you up with a custom grind cam.
Off the shelf grinds are great but they aren't for everyone. You should check into just to see what they say. My cam is a custom grind as well!!
Hum, how much does a good custom cam usually run?
can we please get specs... im too lazy to look them up... i know roughly what the ms3 is but not for sure... and the torquer 2 no idea:think:
same price as a off the shelf cam... like 395 from compcamsQuote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
Well thats not a bad price at all.
Here are the specs for each cam. I can pic any lobe separation I want, I hear a lot of people go with 112. Why is that?
Magic Stick 3 237/242 .603"/.609" 112 lobe separation
Torquer 2 232/234 .595"/.598" 112 lobe separation
Personally I would ask you to define a little more then fast street car. How much time on the street, daily drive it or just something to play with on the weekends ? What else will be going with the cam heads, gears, stall (for auto only), etc. Best to get some clear goals before you start dumping money into parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
On a side note, with my mild cam 226/228 .585/.588 lsa 112 and stock heads needs 6500-6700 as a good shift point. I can only imagine the bigger cams wanting to go much higher into the RPMs, which will mean you need heads, intake, and bottom end to take that kind of abuse well.
i would def say no to ms3, the torquer 2 is pretty reasonable, will sound a bit choppy and nice withthe 112 lsa and high lift... the offset isnt too high but is good... you will benefit fromheads, but you can wait for them if you really want todo it nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
It will be a DD. A rear end will come later with gearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Bottesini
I have heard a couple of people with the MS3 say that they wish they would have gone with the Torquer 2Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLET_WS6
yeah it wouldnt be much fun in a dd in traffic... i can honestly say i never ever stall cars, but i got in my friend with an ms4, and wow... i stalled three times before i figured out how to get that puppy moving... very embarassing... my old car was very hard to drive stick and i never once stalled it so i was quite shocked... maybe i just turned into a weinerQuote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
Lol, I guess it would take some getting use toQuote:
Originally Posted by BULLET_WS6
it really isnt that bad after the first launch or two... i was able to drive it around just fine after the initial retard moments... it just isnt very convenient in stop and go traffic. Sure you get used to it, but adds a bit more to the task of drivingQuote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
I think I could get use to it pretty quick
I would suggest something closer to the 228 then. Personally I really like my cam for a DD and it puts down right around 400 to the rear. Even still it gets a bit bitchy sometimes. Really depends on how good a tuner you get, but if you are keeping the stock heads I would not always say bigger is better, especially if you are stuck in traffic :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
I will try to get a vid clip one of these days so you can hear what a mild cam is like.
That is true. I'll have the stock heads for a whileQuote:
Originally Posted by Bottesini
haha you can get used to anything.. but really, the MS3 is a screamer. Its great with heads and all but other than that id stick with a cam near the torquer 2 and a 112 lsa. I dont like the power the MS3 makes either, its really weak in the lower rpms( and those are rpms you'd use on the street). Great peak power though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
Well I think I'm leaning more towards the Torquer 2 right now
I don't want to sound like an asshole but I wouldn't recommend either for a dd... if it truly is getting driven daily as an M6 with a cam that big and no heads I would deffinately get sick of it. Given EVERYBODY has different ideas of streetable thats been said tonnes of times, however I just think thats a big cam for a dd... if it was a weekend warrior and just for fun I would say go for it otherwise...
I just can't imagine myself driving an ms3 or torquer 2 to work everyday...
Well, how would you think it would do driving a long ways. Like across country or something?
lower fuel economy, but other then that I think it wouldn't be too bad... I'm just throwing in my .02$ I'm no expert on the matter they just seem pretty agressive for daily driving in traffic.
Cause I plan on driving home to NC from Az at some point. But I wouldn't mind having a cam that big for a DD car
My best advice is continue doing what you are now, lots of research. Cam choice is a rather big decision at least in my opinion. Learn as much as you can, call shops find out what they suggest (think I spent something like 400 minutes on my cellphone talking to just speedshops), talk to people, see what their cars actually are like, and read lots (take anything off the internet or through a manufacture with a grain of salt). After you see what cars with big cams are like maybe you will feel that it is ok as a DD, everyone definition of streetable is different. For me I want lots of power under the curve, and not have to fight the car to keep idling when I am stuck in traffic, or surging me to death either.
As for picking a off the shelf grind, personally I did not plan on doing it. The only reason I have a cam from Vengeance is because it matched exactly what I wanted from a custom ground cam.
Thanks for the info. I try to research as much a possible
At a steady speed, like driving across country youll be just fine. Its not gonna buck or throw you around. It will drive just like any other car, just louder and more power ready if you decide to get on it :devil:
Sweet, thats what I like to hearQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
Im in the same situation u are in trying to decide on a cam. I have been doing some research for a while now and I think the torqer and the MS3 are pretty radical. We have exactly the same mods.
Bottesini made a good decision on his cam, Im looking to one very similar proally around a 228 seems like the way to go.
Are you going to get it anytime soon?
Maybe around christmas time or a little later Ill let you know. I've pretty much decided on the 228r with a 112 LSA for a better lope. :nana:Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
where does the torqer start to produce its power and where dos it peak?
Ok, cool. Let me know what you thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by WS6ICK2K
I'm not sure, I'll try to find outQuote:
Originally Posted by AB'sLs1
personally i would go the Tv2...
but im biased towards small cams even though the Tv2 is a mild cam...
however, if i were to go another cam in the future, i would go custom grind...
What cam are you running?Quote:
Originally Posted by SSwt00SS
224/224 .581/.581 @112 lsaQuote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
Put down some good numbers?
458rwhp/410rwtq...
H/C/I and the usual bolt-ons is all, nothing over the top, budget build...
the SS is an M6, and im saving for a 9"...
Sweet. Those look like some great numbers
thanks...:cheers:
Anytime. Any track times yet?
There is a guy on ls1 tech running 10s with cam only. Its a custom cam called Predator Z it specs out at 230/230 .619/.592 111+2 LSA. He has supporting mods but no heads laying down 420RWHP. Unbelieveable
Check it out
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...like-best.html
Wow, that is something to think about. Who makes that cam? But there is something I dont get, I've heard that, its not so much the lift, it the duration and LSA that you have to worry about. What role does the duration and LSA play in a cam?Quote:
Originally Posted by WS6ICK2K
The duration is just that.. Its pretty much how long the valves stay open for and the lift is the same thing, how "high" they go. Thus letting in more air/fuel producing more power. That is a very simple explanation and is about as far from technical as you can get but thats how i dumb'd everything up for myself to keep everything simple in my head. When they talk about PTV(piston to valve) clearance they are talking about how close the piston comes to the valve before it closes. If you have a high duration cam with a high lift, you might run into some issues. But you can get away with high lift and lower duration vice versa because they are more spread out.
Ah, ok. So, do you know who make that "el torro pred-z XFI/XER" cam?
Predator Z over on ls1tech came up the specs, its his design pretty much. Its a custom cam and thats his name for it. He uses comp cams. But so do pretty much all the sponsors.
Hum, sweet. I'll have to talk to him and see. What does "111+2" LSA mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
111 lsa with 2 degrees advance ground in the cam.
Ok, gotcha. I have some thinking to do. That sounds like a great cam
....its the cam im getting...
Heres the dyno sheet, its about midway down the page. Look at that torque curve, its just perfect.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...0-111-2-a.html
Seems like that cam is the way to go. I saw somewhere on there where he said he lost about 5 mpg with that cam and a stall ouch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
Wonder how it would b on a M6.
Thats not bad for highly stalled/cammed car, especially with specs like that. In an m6 i bet you would lose 2mpg if you drove it like a normal human being. Ill let you know once i get it haha
Well, you be sure to let me know how you like it. I may go with that cam after I get back from depoloyment
I must ask, stock cubes? Fast ported intake? AFR/TFS heads? lol. those are big numbers!Quote:
Originally Posted by SSwt00SS
oh, and a 10.x LS1 car with cam only is sick! it's more understandable with lower weight though. I know a guy who went 11.1 with cam only on a stalled car, with about 150lbs of weight reduction.
Sounds good you and Y2K_CAMARO let me know the results...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
IDK about the 2mpg that cam hits VERY hard I'd say 3-4. :hasquint:
BTW what valve spring are you going to be running? PRC duals?
Haha yeah but 3 or so mpg isnt even noticable to me, gas is cheap again so who cares haha. I will definitely be running dual springs, most likely PRC's but brand doesnt really matter to me as long they are duals and rated to .650 lift.
Should both pushrods and springs be replaced? I know springs for sure. Also, I'm not really worried about 3mpg either, lol
Most people replace both. 7.425 is the proper length for this cam but im debating on replacing them. I would rather bend pushrods on a missed shift or if something along those lines happens than suffer damage elsewhere such as internals. Ill most likely end up putting hardened ones but keep my limiter low.
I think the same way as far as getting hardened pushrods. In fact I have the stockers in mine and they have not had any trouble with going up to 6500-6700 RPM :) However, if the cam you want needs a longer or shorter pushrod, then I would change to keep all the geometry correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
Ahh damn i overlooked that last part. Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottesini
Change over to hardened PR's for sure. As I just said on another thread they flex with the higher seat pressures of upgraded springs causing valvetrain instability.
The guy on Tech (chrs 1313) paid attn. to all the details get his setup to perform. He has done some weight reduction, made a really effective homemade ramair system and degreed his cam on install to insure the proper valve events and matched it with a 4000 stall. That is a great cam for street/strip and mine is similiar and on the same XFI/X-ER lobes but that is a factory freak car IMO and his #'s/times will be hard to duplicate.
Sorry I digress but with a good tune it is a perfectly fine DD. Mine is just a little b!tchy at cold start but then has good manners and is a literal BLAST to drive.
Oh i completely agree with the freak part. Those are insane cam only numbers and that really does only happen on perfect cars, and his is. i just love the potential the cam has, its specs alone scream torque.Quote:
Originally Posted by SOMbitch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
I know. Sick car for sure. I have 5.3 heads and a FAST 90/90 and we are making about the same dyno #'s. He has he track times to back'em up too.
I will have some track times soon as my DR's are finally here. They T & T here on Sundays it has just been too cold or raining the last few weeks.
Yea I saw a few ppl on LS1 tech in shock of those numbers they wanted him to take a pic of his stock heads lol. :leghump:
So, are you saying that, that is not a good cam if you dont have a perfect or "factory freak" car? Or just you only put down those kinds of numbers on a perfect car? Just to make sure I read that rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
i am driving from south texas to az thats good news for me to. In my opinion i have the 224 224 545 545 114 cam and wish i should have gone with a bigger camQuote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
He just states that some stock cars put down alot more hp than others. Nothing wrong with that cam... Some cars can run in the 12s bone stock, I bet Chris's car was one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
Excellent Cam
Well said!!Quote:
Originally Posted by WS6ICK2K
Well, what kind of numbers do you put down with that cam?Quote:
Originally Posted by 99w69kitt
Ah, thats what I was thinking, but figured I'd ask just to make sure. I just want to make sure I get as much info as possible before I make my choiceQuote:
Originally Posted by WS6ICK2K
Basically, dont expect 420whp from this cam. Its all about where your numbers are BEFORE the cam. Expect about a 60-65 whp gain. It really depends on the condition of your motor and such before hand. The tune plays a big factor.
i hit a 12.3 in the 1/4 110mph 1.8 60Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
True, but I have no factory freak, but maybe I'll still get some good numbers with it. I just have to find someone that knows how to tune an LS1 really goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
Thats really good, just some spray and your well into the 11'sQuote:
Originally Posted by 99w69kitt
Expect a little bit more. Pm'ed Predator Z on it, stated aroound 70 RWHP. Tad more lol . :loser:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
MS3...
Predator Z is more overhyped than the Street Warrior intake. :true:
I got a Magic Stick for u :jerkit: :jk: MS3 is also a great cam a bit more radical, but is a proven performer.
From what I understand Predator Z and Patrick G are the cam guru's. I know what u mean though...
What do you mean by its a bit more radical? As in its idle, powerband, HP gains...?
In most cases you would wants a cam less than 230 to be a good DD driveable cam. The Magic Stick 3 specs out at 237/242 .603/.609". The powerband is alot higher also from 2300-6800. With smaller cams they can produce power starting from 1400 rpms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
The Magic stick has great peak numbers. Sometimes smaller cames can be faster with lower peak numbers, but better under the curve numbers (torque). Most people use this cam as a SERIOUS street/strip cam. Has nice mean loop to it with lower LSA.
I have seen MS3 setup with PRC 5.3 heads making well over 440RWHP.
What kind of an idle do you think the Predator Z cam will sound like?
Its gonna sound mean with a 111LSA and the duration is decent so its gonna give you a great sound. He quoted me 60-65 rwhp and id rather expect those numbers than 70 cus if i dont get 70, after ive been expecting it, im gonna be upset. Now while the street warrior intake is overhyped in a thousand different ways, Pred knows his stuff whether you like him or not and i personally think his cam's are very well thought out. He does have a bunch of nut huggers over there on tech though..
Well, that sound good. I just want to make sure I get what I'm looking for
I doubt you will b dissapointed on the idle and performance of that cam. Theres some viedos on you tube, and alot of guys say that Chris's car hits harder than their larger cams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2K_CAMARO
What ever floats your boat, just stating what PredZ PMed me...:drivin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99LS1
After all this, my buddy has a comp cam he will sell me for only $50. So it is very tempting to do that. I've heard this cam in his LS1 before he did his LQ9 swap, so its a good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by WS6ICK2K
well what are the specs?
He told me, but I cant remember for sure. I'll ask him and post them up