I have to state this (Not bullshit)

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Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

the unions arent a bad deal in theory, but after years and years of companies trying to screw them some of them are just ungodly. the fact is that companies want to cut costs and increase profit. they dont give a shit about who makes them the money (workers). im not totally in favor, just not totally against. and you have to look at the companies that refuse unions also. take for instance, Wal Mart. if a union came in wally would be forced to renegotiate salaries and hours and benefits and adjust their overall attitude towards their employees. that would cost them money, so they said fuck it. pathetic.....

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Fuck unions. I'm not a socialist so you'll never see me working a union job.

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Originally Posted by 91Z28

Fuck unions. I'm not a socialist so you'll never see me working a union job.

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what the fuck does that mean? im not a fucking socialist either. i dont work in a union. my grandpa fought in ww2, and then became a union painter. is he a fucking socialist? but thats a good argument though.....:beer:

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Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

what the fuck does that mean? im not a fucking socialist either. i dont work in a union. my grandpa fought in ww2, and then became a union painter. is he a fucking socialist? but thats a good argument though.....:beer:

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This is a free enterprise society. If you don't like the way you get treated by a job then you should leave and find another job that doesn't treat people like assholes. There shouldn't be greedy groups that take money from workers to stick it to American companies in a free enterprise system.

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Originally Posted by 91Z28

This is a free enterprise society. If you don't like the way you get treated by a job then you should leave and find another job that doesn't treat people like assholes. There shouldn't be greedy groups that take money from workers to stick it to American companies in a free enterprise system.

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so its ok if you get fucked over because its all a part of the free enterprise system, and its my fault im getting fucked over and I should go get another job? hmmm no. and im not in favor of the unions, i said they started out with good intentions and as a result of jackoffs who own business in this free enterprise system and who screwed the people who made them rich. there should be greedy groups known as business owners who treat people like assholes either.

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Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

so its ok if you get fucked over because its all a part of the free enterprise system, and its my fault im getting fucked over and I should go get another job? hmmm no. and im not in favor of the unions, i said they started out with good intentions and as a result of jackoffs who own business in this free enterprise system and who screwed the people who made them rich. there should be greedy groups known as business owners who treat people like assholes either.

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i agree with u on the first couple sentences. its definitely not ok to get fucked over in business, cuz u could have a job ur depending on, and it all of a sudden changes with a new boss or sumthin ya know?

wanna know what sucks? working for ILLEGALS!!!!

here we are, trying to deport them and i work for like 4 or 5 of them. wtf is that shit

oh but i do support unions.

they have good intentions, but some of their shit is rediculous, like a weight limit that construction workers can carry. i think its like 40lb at a time. WTF, some guys are 300lb and can carry 100 in one hand easily, but the unions gotta mandate how much HE can carry. also, its bullshit to have to report every injury on the job site whether it be a papercut, electrocution, anything.

good intentions, they just need to lay off a bit. it should be more about guidelines for workers, and more rules for employers

The ricers hate UNION'S, prove me wrong name just one Jap union factory. Funny as Union's have declined, so has the middle class, anyone think there's a connection? Child labor laws, 40 hour work week, higher pay, health care insurance, OSHA, some input to job conditions, can anyone say "UNION" yes!

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Originally Posted by SpurSS

The ricers hate UNION'S, prove me wrong name just one Jap union factory. Funny as Union's have declined, so has the middle class, anyone think there's a connection? Child labor laws, 40 hour work week, higher pay, health care insurance, OSHA, some input to job conditions, can anyone say "UNION" yes!

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i support unions

:dodge:

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Originally Posted by SpurSS

The ricers hate UNION'S, prove me wrong name just one Jap union factory. Funny as Union's have declined, so has the middle class, anyone think there's a connection? Child labor laws, 40 hour work week, higher pay, health care insurance, OSHA, some input to job conditions, can anyone say "UNION" yes!

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SpurSS just hit the bullseye, while it's true that the unions buried many companies under the weight of funding huge pension and health care benefits it also made it possible for many Americans to live comfortably as middle class tax paying citizens. What happens when most of the good paying union type jobs are gone and where do these people go to make a living-Wal Mart? The fact of the matter is this country has sold out many of the good paying jobs through HORRIBLE free trade agreements that outsource these jobs to Mexico, India, China etc. It also seems like every time a dispute is brought to the WTO they rule against the good old USA. What good is it when you can buy stuff cheap at Wal Mart but you have a poverty level job, wouldn't it be better to have stuff made here instead of China but you can pay more for it because you have a good paying job? How is this country gonna generate enough tax revenue to service the national debt and trade imbalance that our free trade negotiators have brought us? Common sense dictates that a day of reckoning will be upon us at some point in the future whether that be a year or decades from now and it just might make the great depression look like a walk in the park.:shitstorm:

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Originally Posted by Goatdriver

:dodge:

SpurSS just hit the bullseye, while it's true that the unions buried many companies under the weight of funding huge pension and health care benefits it also made it possible for many Americans to live comfortably as middle class tax paying citizens. What happens when most of the good paying union type jobs are gone and where do these people go to make a living-Wal Mart? The fact of the matter is this country has sold out many of the good paying jobs through HORRIBLE free trade agreements that outsource these jobs to Mexico, India, China etc. It also seems like every time a dispute is brought to the WTO they rule against the good old USA. What good is it when you can buy stuff cheap at Wal Mart but you have a poverty level job, wouldn't it be better to have stuff made here instead of China but you can pay more for it because you have a good paying job? How is this country gonna generate enough tax revenue to service the national debt and trade imbalance that our free trade negotiators have brought us? Common sense dictates that a day of reckoning will be upon us at some point in the future whether that be a year or decades from now and it just might make the great depression look like a walk in the park.:shitstorm:

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+1 ^

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Originally Posted by bmyers

+1 ^

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and +2

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Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

so its ok if you get fucked over because its all a part of the free enterprise system, and its my fault im getting fucked over and I should go get another job? hmmm no.

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You are going to have to define "getting fucked over" for me because I am not sure I know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by gwballin

You are going to have to define "getting fucked over" for me because I am not sure I know what you are talking about.

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:beer: Not meaning any disrespect towards you but I think what he's possibly talking about is his or someone he knows job getting eliminated because the employer is cutting back. I would guess that the job wasn't eliminated because of performance issues but rather due to the company outsourcing it's jobs or not being able to compete with slave labor wages. I ask you this simple question, what do you think is a fair living wage in the good old USA?:confused:

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Originally Posted by Goatdriver

:beer: Not meaning any disrespect towards you

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Absolutely none taken.

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Originally Posted by Goatdriver

but I think what he's possibly talking about is his or someone he knows job getting eliminated because the employer is cutting back. I would guess that the job wasn't eliminated because of performance issues but rather due to the company outsourcing it's jobs or not being able to compete with slave labor wages.

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I will agree that it is an unfortunate situation when people loose their jobs, after all I am not a heartless bastard.

That said, there are two sides to every story. Like you said, if American employees can not compete because the foreign labor market has a competitive advantage why should employers feel any obligation to prevent them from paying the best price they can negotiate.

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Originally Posted by Goatdriver

I ask you this simple question, what do you think is a fair living wage in the good old USA?:confused:

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A living wage depends on so many factors that I can not venture a guess.

I can tell you that a fair wage is easy to determine, it is whatever wage an employer and employee decide in the employment negotiation.

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Originally Posted by ATCharming

oh but i do support unions.

they have good intentions, but some of their shit is rediculous, like a weight limit that construction workers can carry. i think its like 40lb at a time. WTF, some guys are 300lb and can carry 100 in one hand easily, but the unions gotta mandate how much HE can carry. also, its bullshit to have to report every injury on the job site whether it be a papercut, electrocution, anything.

good intentions, they just need to lay off a bit. it should be more about guidelines for workers, and more rules for employers

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yep at, but thats not just union worksites, thats everywhere now. the other big problem is that this is a sue-happy society, and every company is so concerned about losing big money in court that they almost have to be retarted about policies. if stupid fucks would stop suing over shit they caused, we wouldnt have problems like that.

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Originally Posted by Goatdriver

:beer: Not meaning any disrespect towards you but I think what he's possibly talking about is his or someone he knows job getting eliminated because the employer is cutting back. I would guess that the job wasn't eliminated because of performance issues but rather due to the company outsourcing it's jobs or not being able to compete with slave labor wages. I ask you this simple question, what do you think is a fair living wage in the good old USA?:confused:

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exactly.
and just the fact that alot of bigger businesses arent concerned with personnel, just concerned with money. of course its vital to a company to manage their budget but not at the expense of the workers. yes i totally totally agree that outsourcing is KILLING this country's workers and its moral as i said earlier, so obviously the turn-over rate at these particular companies is much higher. it is one thing to be replaced by an expensive assembly line machine or something like that but to be replaced simply because they can find another you with different skin who will do it cheaper is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

yep at, but thats not just union worksites, thats everywhere now. the other big problem is that this is a sue-happy society, and every company is so concerned about losing big money in court that they almost have to be retarted about policies. if stupid fucks would stop suing over shit they caused, we wouldnt have problems like that.

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sue. its the american way.


am i fuckin right, or what? they fuck up everything for everyone else for a few dollars. although, its not completely their fault. if the government wouldnt make it so damn easy to make millions of dollars cuz their coffee was too hot, ppl wouldnt bother trying.

i cant really say anything too bad about the ppl that do that, cuz its the gov.s fault for making it too easy. its pretty hard to pass up a chance for millions of dollars for doin nothin, ya know?

i still am against the whole suing-for-bullshit thing... but dont blame them

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Originally Posted by Goatdriver

:dodge:

SpurSS just hit the bullseye, while it's true that the unions buried many companies under the weight of funding huge pension and health care benefits it also made it possible for many Americans to live comfortably as middle class tax paying citizens. What happens when most of the good paying union type jobs are gone and where do these people go to make a living-Wal Mart? The fact of the matter is this country has sold out many of the good paying jobs through HORRIBLE free trade agreements that outsource these jobs to Mexico, India, China etc. It also seems like every time a dispute is brought to the WTO they rule against the good old USA. What good is it when you can buy stuff cheap at Wal Mart but you have a poverty level job, wouldn't it be better to have stuff made here instead of China but you can pay more for it because you have a good paying job? How is this country gonna generate enough tax revenue to service the national debt and trade imbalance that our free trade negotiators have brought us? Common sense dictates that a day of reckoning will be upon us at some point in the future whether that be a year or decades from now and it just might make the great depression look like a walk in the park.:shitstorm:

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:tap: I must admit to an error in my previous post. It isn't just the free trade negotiators who have brought our country to the brink of financial ruin, the politicians are equally to blame especially regarding the national debt. Do I have a plan that would get us out of this mess, HELL NO!!! I do know if any of us had a personal budget like our government the end result would be bankruptcy so using this analogy the cure would be to cancel the national debt. Of course this would leave many U.S. citizens and foreign countries with worthless treasury bonds and make the dollar worthless so it probably isn't an option. Anyone else have any bright ideas to solve this mess?:hurryup: :stuck: :shrug:

If you are honestly concerned with anything in this thread, I beg you to PLEASE sign up for an econ 101 class. I can't even begin to try to correct this thread.
-Dan

just buy a car that you want and feels good for you. jap, us, euro whatever...
i do have to say this thread has become bullshxt...