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they said this about our engines when they were first introduced. no one thought you could get better flow out of a head than LS1's...took aftermarket awhile but we all know there is a smarter brain out there than the ones at ford:D(gonna take my shots at ford any chance i get seeing as the new 5.0 is a beast)Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH.WS6
Usually. My point was just that handling has become a much higher priority for OEMs lately, no matter what type of body the performance package is offered in. Everybody is talking about the lap times their car turns at specific tracks, or how much time each suspension option cuts from their lap times. Since the popular trend lately (whether media or consumer-driven) is for muscle cars to handle like they're on rails, the OEMs have stepped up to the plate to meet that demand, and now the Mustang and Camaro are throwing down handling numbers that rival those of a C5 Corvette.Quote:
Originally Posted by rc74racer
I agree completely. We've had a couple of vettes, and although they do handle nice, I still never really cared to push them around corners much at all,,,,certainly no more than I push our solid axle cars around corners.Quote:
Originally Posted by rc74racer
So I really couldn't care less if these cars come with IRS. If GM thinks thats what sells cars, then oh well :dunno: But it doesn't bring me into the dealerships. Been there, done that,,,,,not impressed.
But I've always been a straight line kinda guy, always will be I suspect.
And if you really want to dig back into the heritage of these pony cars and what they were supposed to be about,,,it had nothing to do with handling, or ride comfort. It's what started the muscle car wars and who was the first one to the next stop light.
Not quite. Sure that's what started it, but it wasn't long before they were turning corners too. Trans Am racing racing series, anybody?Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
And doing it with solid axles ;) Unlike the corvettes that had IRS since 63. And guess which one was winning....This might have been before your time, but do you remember the championship winning teams from 67 through say,,,,72????Quote:
Originally Posted by RJWZ28
I don't recall any IRS cars being in Trans Am at that point in time. All of those cars were solid axle until Porsches and Jaguars showed up later. But that wasn't my point; my point was that there was focus on handling in the beginning as well, just not as much. However, IRS tends to give the handling advantages of a well set up solid axle car without some of the drawbacks. Neither is perfect (IRS is more complex and therefore usually easier to break, solid axles aren't as forgiving of surface imperfections) but that is how the OEMs weighed out the pros and cons about each system before they decided what to install in their vehicles. Ford went with the solid axle for the best combination of strength, price, and weight, while GM went for the IRS to try to beat the Stang in the corners. Ford went more aggressive with the suspension and more practical with the rolling stock, and now the Camaro needs a bit of work to play catch up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Vettes have been involved in SCCA since their inception in various classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJWZ28
GM seems to have gotten onto the IRS kick, first it was the new GTO and now the camaro. If they would get away from that expensive stuff it would make the cars more affordable to everyone. Not everyone wants IRS, I really don't think that's what makes or breaks the camaro anyway. But I think Ford has the right idea with a solid axle, smaller lighter package, that's what makes a pony car from my perspective. I don't want all the fancy doodads.
Unfortunately the challenger and camaro have turned into giant clydesdale horses instead of little ponies :lol: Completely missed the boat and no longer represent what they used to be.
But society has gotten soft, they want more room, comfort, etc... so the big 3 change direction to compensate. And I can understand why. But I don't fit in to all that, guess I'll stick to classics. :D
I want light weight, quick acceleration, AND good handling, hence my plans to purchase a Corvette in the next couple of years. However, at the moment I am in need of something more practical, and a 2006-2007 CTS-V is the only reasonably priced "lightweight" modern American V-8 manual RWD sedan I can find, and therefore is the only car currently on my shopping list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Sadly firebirdjones more people want handling over straight line performance every year. On the other car websites im on the drag racing sections have 2-10 threads and the autox/road couse sections have hundreds upron hundreds.
Ya I'm aware of that,, sad but true how this country is changing and getting soft,,,,,but it's not going to sway me to the other side. It is what it is. I enjoy what I've got and feel damn lucky to have it. I don't feel I need to spend even more money for something that doesn't really appeal to me anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinergy
There are still some of us that don't feel the car manufactures are giving us what we need, although a small percentage, I don't mind being a minority.
About the last car that made production that I really liked was the 2000 Cobra R from Ford. A bare bones no nonsense car. They didn't have any trouble getting rid of them,,,,so there is a market, albeit small. If GM would do something like that I'd be at the door first thing in the morning placing my order. Otherwise as far as I'm concerned they can keep wasting their time :cheers:
Those caddies aren't exactly light either. Like I mentioned above,,,,about the last car that offered what you are looking for was the 2000 Cobra R.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJWZ28
The vette isn't bad,,,,but it still comes with too many cushy doodads to suit me.
He said sedan, apparently he needs 4 doors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
The 2000 cobra r was easy to get rid of cause they were badass and there was only 300ish made. Although the new 5.0 with 412hp blows the 5.4 385hp out of the water.
Sedans are 2 doors as well from my era :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinergy
Ya the HP numbers don't tell the whole story though, the Cobra R did everything better, and no A/C, roll up windows, no radio,,,that's my kinda car ;)
Too bad the production number was set in stone,,,they could have sold alot more if they wanted to.
Well I like my cars with radios as I love music and I have a motorcycle if I wanna go fast without tunes, windows doesnt matter to much and I have owned 2 cars without A/C. Didnt like the body on the cobra R either. I understand the cobra r was a purpose built beast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Well, I don't know if anyone mentioned this in this thread yet, but the new GT went 9's. Just from reading on Mustang forums, I read from a few guys that the car that ran those times definently has a decent shot of nitrous, 4 rear control arms, a C4 tranny, they relocated the battery, the car has race seats and slicks. And the tuning, that I do not know about. Maybe they figured out something with the cam timing or something like that, not so sure.
But, I personally have yet to see a stock longblock 5th gen in the 9's without some kind of heavy duty weight reduction (feel free to enlighten me if there is one out there that exists). And I'll tell you another thing, I find it funny how everyone thought the 5.0 was going to be pretty much maxxed out from the factory with it's compression ratio and whatnot, seems as if that theory has been proven wrong judging by what we have seen so far.
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Originally Posted by Transamws6
Eh,,,you said it has nitrous. Not so impressive in that respect. I'd expect it to be fast. I'm sure if you look around, you'll find a 5th gen in the 9's with some sort of power adder on it as well.
What I'd like to see is potential in naturally aspirated form,,,that's what speaks volumes about a car.
Yeah, I know it isn't actually a light car, but it is the only car that meets my expectations for a daily driver that doesn't weigh over 4000 pounds or cost $35k. 2000 Cobra R is a sweet car, but when I get a weekend car, it will be a Z06, with the weight further reduced by swapping lighter seats, hood, wheels, battery, etc, in addition to coilover suspension and engine mods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
has a 427ci in it ...along with the power adderQuote:
Originally Posted by Z28Thunder
Yup read that after the post and removed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
It's hard to believe they can't get a 2010 SS in the 9s with the stock bottom end.