The rest of your post aside, I have no arguement here. I think Mach 1's are probably closer than you give them credit for, but in general, I agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaHaveLS1
Bob
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The rest of your post aside, I have no arguement here. I think Mach 1's are probably closer than you give them credit for, but in general, I agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaHaveLS1
Bob
wrong wrong wrong. listen buddy thats like saying the shelbys of old were put in the same discusions of mustangs...no they where the shelby...just like the machs are in the same catagory..and the term is deff in its own category. i know svt is a division of ford. but tell me of the 03-04 cobra years did the term or the cobra have the same internal engine or even external engine as the stock gt? i have nothing but respect for the machs, the s/ced cobras and the terms..but none for the GT. so i guess i should have been more specific. but if you can use the argument about bunching these tunned and modified cars from svt..why not throw the cobra R in there with your discion and say ohh well a cobra R can beat a stock ls1 and is lighter!!! so no they arent heavier and they arent faster then a mustang...see how that really doesnt make sense. man read up about shit your talking about. svt is just like srt. in house tuners..i dont consider anything with a srt badge as a factory car.Quote:
Originally Posted by mogs01gt
i reference the cobra because of mogs' comment. no my ws6 isnt factory stock..went to asc for the ws6 option..i never said it was factory stock. never have considered it..it was out of house :itsok:Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD
so the same applies for your cobras. at least the way i see it. if the entire car wasnt done "in house" then it isnt. the engine internals are the same however as the t/a and the z/28. now you cant say that about the cobra but i am not going to get into a pissing war with you blkcloud..because truely it doesnt matter. go ahead and just so you know the stripper Z28 is even lighter...so you didnt use the lightest f-body. but i will admit there are some mustangs that are lighter then f-bodies. so ok you win there. but i still stand by my statment the f-bodies are faster stock for stock then the mustang excluding svt products. but w/e
LOL. It has been a while since I've read such a steaming pile of dodo bird dung - but that last post was textbook.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
Cobra's were built by Ford. They didn't go anywhere outside of Ford. A Cobra goes down the same line as a GT and a V6. Do you understand that? The EXACT same line.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
Bob
PS....The 2000 Cobra R was QUITE heavy....as in....almost 3600 lbs (w/o driver).
ok so not arguing weight...please tell me where i am dead wrong? educate me please.. tell me how the majority of mustangs are faster then the f-bodies. teach me
Never said that, my friend. In the LS1 years (98-02), the F-body was most certainly quicker than any factory Mustang. It was significantly faster than the GT (most especially in 98), and still had a decent advantage over the Cobra. No arguement there - never was from me.
the first argument was on weight. I said you were wrong, and posted references to prove it. I Believe we have that worked out. BTW, the lightest of the LS1 F-bodys would have been a 1LE Z28. Pretty rare, but a pretty mean beast, too. Still not as light as a Mustang GT, but lighter than a Cobra.
Second, I think your position that Cobras aren't "factory stock" is completely and totally indefensible, for the reasons stated above. You *might* be able to make a case for Roush Mustangs, Saleen Mustangs, Steeda Mustangs, etc. But not the Cobra - they are pure Ford and pure factory.
Its funny....because I've also heard it argued (not from you) that an 03/04 Cobra isn't "stock" because it has a blower from the factory. Funny stuff.
Bob
well i guess i was wrong i apologize. i was under the impression that the cobras rolled off a different lines. i would never argue the blower bull shit. but i am pretty sure i speak for the majority of people when i say we call the gt and some others mustangs...we call the mustang mach 1 a mach and a cobra a cobra, and a term a term..because those 3 mustangs are in a whole other class..and it would be a disgrace to mention a term in the same breathe as a gt..but hey that is just me. plus i wouldnt mind a termy. i'd blow the hell out of it and push some serious numbers. oh this is my friend's replica gt 500. love this car http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/000_0197.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD
Im gonna jump in here and agree with a little bit of everyones point.
The SVT cars are Fords, Ford just calls it SVT to give it a cool name, its still Ford. That way they can charge more money. And the WS6 is still a GM, just a top of the line model, much like the SVT Cobra is the Top of the Line Mustang. When it comes down to it, it is a Mustang and a Firebird, or Camaro.
Also as far as GT's go, from 96-04 the 2v 4.6 sucked. It is slow and its cornering ability is no where near a LS1 car. So as far as a GT goes, ya a LSx is by far superior in the stock trim. And yes it takes alot of mods to get one to run next to a LSx. But remeber that the consumewr gets what he or she pays for. A 2002 GT could be yours brand new for 24 grand. The LSx cars were alot more money. So in my opinion it evens out.
The 4 valve 4.6 liters were differant stories. The 96-98's were ok, they need gears and exhaust/tune and the other basic bolt ons, just to be close to a Lsx, but remeber ther competion was no the LS, it was the LT1. They faired well against them.
The 99 and 01 Cobra are even faster from the factory. They need gears and CAI/exhaust and a tune and they will run neck and neck with a stock LSx car. But once again you getr what you pay for, tghe 01 Ram Air/SS was in the 32k price range, a 01 Cobra was 28-29k area, the 2 or 3 grand you save will get the mods to catch up to the LSx cars.
The real bargins were the 03/04 cobras and the 03/04 Machs, the Mach was also 28-29k in price, it was under rated at 305 horse and will run with a stock LSx car (and they got the 3.55 gears from the factory). The 03/04 Cobra would kill a LSx car, and for a bargain price of 34k.
The new (2005+) is a descent car, they will run with a LSx car with a tune and exhaust/CAI. Especiall 0-60 mph. The GT 500 is a rip off. IMO
Bottom line, the LSx cars are supperior to a 96-04 GT, but not that much faster than a stock 4v Mustang (Cobra/Mach 1) But still they are faster.
Its all about what you like to drive.
good points preston about the competition.
I believe this statement but from the assembly line that brought you the above mustangs from 1993-2002 I don't think any of them out performed any LT1 or LS1 F-body in your Motor Trends or other magazines of that type. I can actually recall buying a MM&FF magazine when I owned my 92 coupe and it saying how the camaro was edging out the mustang again, acually I'm sure I still have that magazine.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD
Oh and I have nothing against Ford I still own a 67 Ford Fairlane XL500 289c.i. (I love that car had it since I was 16):happy:
One thing I know the mustang did beat the F-body at is sales, if it were the other way around the F-body would have never been axed.:mad:
I agree, the GT and the Mach/Cobras should be mentioned in differant breaths. Well put.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkmanwell i guess i was wrong i apologize. i was under the impression that the cobras rolled off a different lines. i would never argue the blower bull shit. but i am pretty sure i speak for the majority of people when i say we call the gt and some others mustangs...we call the mustang mach 1 a mach and a cobra a cobra, and a term a term..because those 3 mustangs are in a whole other class..and it would be a disgrace to mention a term in the same breathe as a gt..but hey that is just me. plus i wouldnt mind a termy. i'd blow the hell out of it and push some serious numbers. oh this is my friend's replica gt 500. love this car
I would never own a 2v 4.6 liter, if I had a 2v engine it would be a GM car.
Also, is that a condom on the lower part of your friends front bumper?
:lmao: i think soo!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by preston1980
I don't like to magazine race. Unfortunately, in discussions like this, with older cars, sometimes that is all we have. That said...Quote:
Originally Posted by 00ssSLP
In the LT1/LS1 years (93-02), there was not a Mustang GT that, stock for stock, could beat an LT1/LS1 F-body (equal drivers, conditions, etc).
A 93 Cobra was a good match for a 93 LT1 F-body. The LT1 had more power, the Cobra was lighter.
94/95 Cobra lagged behind the same year F-body, mainly because of the added weight of the SN95 Mustang (new in 94).
A 96/97 Cobra was easily a match for a 96/97 LT1 F-body.
98 Cobra was essentially a carry-over from 96/97, while the F-body got the LS1. Game over (stock to stock, equal drivers).
99/01 Cobras were not capable of outrunning same year LS1s (stock to stock, equal drivers).
In all cases, when the modifications begin, all bets are off.
Perhaps I'll do some magazine racing later to provide the evidence. Kind of busy right now.
Bob
Are you serious?Stock GT engine and the Cobra engine?? WHAT!?!?:hmm: Where in the world are you pulling this garbage from?:brick2: Sounds like you are thinking of Saleen and Roush.Quote:
Originally Posted by shady milkman
:blah: :blah: welcome to yesterday mogs glad you could join :coffee:
CAN'T WE ALL JUST... GET ALONG!?
:drama:
:gotboobies:
I can agree that some of the Mustangs were getting closer but the actual beating I don't believe ever took place. I also think magazine racing is just that magazine racing but when you have people saying my GT,Cobra,Mach1 or my SS,Z28,TA,WS6 is faster then your car stock for stock the only thing you can do is go back and look in the magazines. The magazines are the only ones who had an actual stock car. Most of the Mustangs and F-body's from 1993-2002 have mods and a million miles on them by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD
I can agree with this to.:titslap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki_SeVeN
