Generally you want to replace both right and left bank .02's @ the same time..
Is the MAF an OEM replacement? If not, it could be junk too..
A faulty rear 02. or (cat 02) will not effect performance, but will throw an efficiency code..
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Generally you want to replace both right and left bank .02's @ the same time..
Is the MAF an OEM replacement? If not, it could be junk too..
A faulty rear 02. or (cat 02) will not effect performance, but will throw an efficiency code..
Plastic intake? I am amazed @ 180k you have'nt had issues with it yet..
A leak there can also cause a lean condition as well as other issues, which I suspect was likely the problem in the first place..
The Grand Prix site has me looking towards some vacuum lines. I had trouble with the same before. I had cobbled them up by crazy gluing the hard plastic lines (hoses) into their rubber "t" connector. I had screwed with it again when I installed the new (yep aftermarket-as cheap as I could find Ebay) MAF sensor. I imagine that it could be bad too even new, but the car sure does run and drive LOTS better since putting it in. Hoping for the vac line to do it, but...ya never know.
My 2000 GP GT 3.8 only had the upper (firewall o2) and the lower after cat o2 for a total of 2. I think you have a MAF that is not an OEM exact match throwing lean codes. Same thing happens to all of us who bought the SLP MAF for our f-bodies looking for power and only getting lean codes until we swap back the original.
Yeah crazy glue prolly was'nt the best choice..lol Good luck!
You are correct... However some 3800's have more than just 2...Quote:
Originally Posted by SSTODD
I mentioned that on the GP site too...I had never remembered seeing an O2 sensor besides the one near firewall and the other downstream from the cat...but when the Autozone clerk said the code reads front bank lean, I figured there had to be an individual sensor for each 1/2 of the engine...strange phrasing for the error code. I will have to see what the Ebay seller says about their sensor.
When my hard plastic lines on my 87 Z24 broke, I bought vacuum hose and "spliced" them onto the broken ends of the lines and fitted them into the rubber elbows. Mine broke while I replaced the lower intake manifold gaskets.Quote:
Originally Posted by rschap1
Sure sounds like those vacuum lines could be a good suspect. Also could be the MAF sensor. You're 2000 doesn't have a front O2 sensor according to my Service manual. It only has one precat O2 sensor in the rear manifold. So P0171 means the engine is running lean. It doesn't mean Bank 1 is lean, because it doesn't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by rschap1
Well...the SES light has come and gone. Twice scanned, same code now.
Looked over all my possibilities. The hoses and lines seem to be good, or at least same as they have been for nearly a year. Contacted my Ebay seller of the MAF sensor...got this response when I reported my troubles since installing their part...
"We introduced this product this month, and your part is the first to fail out of few dozens we sold. It's really a small sample to draw any conclusions. We will mail you a replacement by this afternoon, along with a prepaid label to return the defective unit."
Did not think I could ask for any better response than that. I started thinking that even though the car ran crappy with it's surging, it did not have the SES light on until the new sensor. I will try another one like this and see if it persists. I then asked seller,
"Will the new one have different calibration or specs?
I see that you also have refurbished units. Do these have a better track record?"
Just in case the next one does same due too it's design, specs, or whatever.
Wondered if a different sensor would be needed...got this:
"The refurbished ones are on back order. I don't think we have had any issues with these.
We sent you a replacement with a returned label. If it doesn't function as it's supposed to, I can get you an estimated delivery date for the refurbished ones, and see if we could get you a good deal on a brand new unit through our supplies.
Seems like they are being as helpful as can be. Hoping that sooner or later a different MAF sensor fixes all of this:)
Talk about "stand up" guys. They sound pretty awesome to me. :yup:
Its been a few days and I have not seen the replacment sensor yet, BUT
It has been 5 days and over 400+ miles w/o the SES light on and still running good.
Is it possible it just takes a lil' while for the controller to adjust to the new sensor?
I had wondered why a lean alarm too? Wouldn't it, shouldn't it just richen the mix?
I am a little puzzled (as usual) but wondering if all is good now, or not?
Should I mess with it,or leave it alone?
The SES light did go off by itself while driving, it wasn't me pulling the battery cables again or anything...did it just "fix itself" I mean adjust for the new MAF sensor signal??
THANKS for everything:)
If I remember correctly, the OBD 2 cars will turn the SES light off after a few key cycles(turning the car on) but the code will be stored in the PCM. I also believe that these cars have to be driven a certain distance to re-learn a new sensor. Like when an idle air control (IAC) sensor is replaced. The vehicle has to be driven, I THINK, 5 miles at 40 MPH.
Well, I had been directed to quite a bunch of threads revolving around the P0171 code. Both on the grandprix forums and gearchatter.com. I have came up with an all sunshine happy happy scenario for all of it:)
Guessing, I mean hoping, that it just took some time and a few cycles/rides for the controls to adjust to the new sensor's input. Read how the baseline fuel maps get trimmed according to what the sensors tell. Thinking that the SES light originally came on because I did not disconnect the battery and clear codes and trims when I installed the new MAF sensor. Then later after the light did come on I did disconnect power. Then when running from the baseline some trimming was still needed. Once those trims were made, and enough cycles happened to make those adjustments, the lights went off. That is what I am hoping.
Feel free to let me know if I am way off base or missed something. Car is still running good now and light is off, so I am telling myself all is good.
Wishing I had a scan tool to be sure, but:(
VERY much appreciate all the help, again!!!!
You can get a scanner from your local parts store from $20 and up.
$20, really?
I had an older one for my 1990's era Fords, but thought newer ones like I would need are more like $250...
Maybe I better shop a lil' more.
THANKS
Well I gotta ask now...
Probably should be a whole new thread but...
suggestions for a cheap scan tool?
Good, bad, what to look for, what to avoid?
Ebay searched and saw some OBD2 (I am guessing that is the correct set up, right?) to USB cables and interfaces.
Using a laptop easier or better? worse? Also saw some adapters, mostly wireless, to ipods and iphones. I could steal my kids ipod I guess. Good bad?
I hate to go too cheap really, but that is what I am all about, my old Ford tool had me counting long bleeps and short flashes then referencing a list. Never was real sure if I had missed a beat or what was going on.
I don't think that I need the fanciest or most expensive detailed unit out there, but it would be nice to see a read out not count long and short led blips.
Thanks
I bought the Innova 3140 for under $200 online, it does obd1 and obd2 multiple vehicles. I like it so far but would like the more expensive models that also read ABS and TRANS codes.Quote:
Originally Posted by rschap1
I really wish I had remembered what my old manager used. His was a palm-sized code reader and I saw it in a parts store for $30.
It is a code scanner and reader.
Do you just want a trouble code reader and clearer? or a scan tool you can read engine and trans data?Quote:
Originally Posted by rschap1
Those little code readers cammed is talking about are very handy to have but don't give you data. I have one and use it 10x more then my scantool that shows data. The best scan tool you can get for GM cars is the Tech2, next (IMHO) would be the scan tool that comes with HPTuners, and then the rest are all about the same. Lugging a laptop around as a scan tool is a little bit of a pain in the butt but does offer some advantages like a big colorful screen to look at and possibly faster data readout.