http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ro1/tdc004.jpg
Home stretch...
Printable View
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ro1/tdc004.jpg
Home stretch...
Now your just procrastinating
Well after the glass bead problem there was a slight panic about the entire build shitting the bed.. So, a virgin motor was built in it's place.. Every inch of this engine is new with 0 miles.. Not one remaned part was used.. I lost too much trust in the original build.. So a 100% factory spec/balanced/printed engine was built by me in it's place.. Again this is NOT a crate engine... The engine will be done with paint and final assembly tomorrow rain or shine.. I practicly built my new shop around this engine. Except for literally a couple pieces the engine is ready for the chains..Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
Ps.This engine is still getting The Twins and everything else...:yup:
Why wouldn't it be?
I threw that out incase someone thought otherwise is all..Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
I saw northstar and for a second I was thinking the v-8
Since that is a new motor is it forged?
;) the HO DOHC quad-4 was the forerunner to the 3.4L Twin Dual Cam v6 (TDC) was the (father) forerunner to the northstar v8.. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
High outputQuote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
Dual over head cam
TDC?
Yes.. Had a steel (truck) 3.4L OHV crank balanced/machined for spikes in the 10,000 rpm range, Factory rods are forged, but were heat treaded and peened, and the cams had to stay cast, but were recut and balanced aswell.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
So this mean you going for more than that measily 350ish fwhp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
LOL yes, the HO 2.3L-2.4L DOHC was a 180hp N/A I4 and tech from the little 4 banger went into a v6 version called the TDC..Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
The TDC or Twin Dual Cam is the original designation for the 3.4L DOHC 60 degree v6.. It's an "X" code engine and w-body specific.. Also entirely Chevrolet....
Nope 350ish to the wheels.. Pure screamer with reliablity.. What you see here in this thread is new. Meaning never attempted with this engine. There's no after market or forum for this type of build, and parts have to be made or altered to work in a TDC application.. Rumor has it these engines can see well into 500 crank HP, but I have yet to see proof of it.. 350 is close to 125~150ish FWHP over the factory TDC's crank numbers.. That's good enough..Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
Have a northstar motor in one of the classrooms, never touched it because I don't want to remember how it all goes back together. Or try and get the timing right. I like them though seen one in a fiero and a 914:naughty:
:lol: yeah if you're new to setting the timing on one of these it can be a nightmare.. Especially with a stock intake valve clearance around .001 @ the back of your mind..:drivin:Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
But after spending so much time with these motors, putting them together, taking them apart, resetting N/A timing (with a degreeing wheel) for more of the hidden HP, it becomes almost second nature and kinda fun..:firedevil:
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ittro1/1-4.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ittro1/2-4.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ittro1/3-4.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ittro1/4-4.jpg
Time to remove the cam covers and get ready for setting the timing belt. Also set the lower intake back into place temporarily..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ittro1/5-4.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ittro1/6-3.jpg
Now on to modding the timing cover for the new spot where our TB will now reside..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ittro1/7-3.jpg
Them on to paint..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ittro1/8-3.jpg
Then bolt into place..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ittro1/9-3.jpg
Pull on the balancer..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/10-3.jpg
Set the cam drive pulley and rollers..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/11-4.jpg
Welcome to my world..lol
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/12-4.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/13-4.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/14-3.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/15-2.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/16-2.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/17-2.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/18-2.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/19-2.jpg
The 95% finished engine.. More to come...
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/20-1.jpg
Looking badass!!! love that color
You look like you've been making progress
Looking sharp. :)
Thank you much man! :woot: Other than some minor cosmetics the engine is in it's final stance.. The upper intake is nearly done with machineing too.. Trany is comming and soon the whole unit will be ready for pipes. Then we hit the chains then hit the key..Quote:
Originally Posted by tatertot91
Thanks P!:usa:Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2KPewterSS
What kind of paint did you use?
Just a highly metalic engine paint and then hit it with a heat resistant red clear..Quote:
Originally Posted by tatertot91
What in the world is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
That is the LQ1 hydrolic tensioner.. The screw driver is to wind in the pivot and the pin is a temporary keeper.. Once the belt is positioned you remove the pin and the little hydrolic cylinder exserts a few hundred or so lbs. to the back side of the timing belt via a cammed roller..:burnout:Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
All kinds of foreign to me looked like a little tranny:lol:
:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
Ps.. It's 20 year old tech..:lol:
These engines start out life as real Frankensteins.. Hoses, pipes, wires, etc. everywhere..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...o1/15ok561.jpg
Kinda like a hot chick in an unflatering one-piece swim suit..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...o1/TDCTT18.jpg
:firedevil::firedevil:
ok NOW i am in.:woot2:
:woot: Thanks for lookin'..Quote:
Originally Posted by dav-02ws6-m6
dude this thing is sick i want to see more
Thank you very much..:bow: There will be plenty more before all is done.. It actually takes longer to take the pics than to do some of the work :lol: But I enjoy sharing my hobby with yall..:woot::drivin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Faught
The beuty of the TDC cylinder head. Most times you never get to see them.. These are the early castings with the smaller lifter diameter (imho best castings ever and a well proven cylinder head).. Notice the signs of the original proto-type TDC in which each head was computer milled from a solid block of aluminum.. A smoother type casting media was used in their reproduction for the consumer (first generation TDC only).. Just some worthless info I thought I'd add...:shrug:
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ro1/tdchd2.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...tro1/tdchd.jpg
But what kind of cfm do the heads flow?
:dunno: never tested them:Pow:. The "best castings" was in ref to design. The earlier castings were very reliable heads and better suited to high rpms.. I can't seem to find the tech on it. But I'll check..Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
cant wait to see more, when your done i'll start on my 3.4l i think
Welcome to the site. However if you're talking 3.4l OHV there's already a strong after market started for them.. Also however, LQ1 will not work in an f-body and has ZERO aftermarket..;) But I'm still all for the modding of the single cammers too.:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinn
More to come..Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
Lift I E
.05 52 52
.10 101 100
.15 150 138
.20 190 164
.25 220 184
.30 246 196
.35 266 203
.40 278 210
They flow more than I thought, Is that all they go up to is .400?
Second castings had "supossedly" better flow but I have'nt seen any real proof. More likely had a better cam profile. The gians were also questionable to power that was already there just needed changes in tuning. I believe the max allowed on stock valves is .480 but don't quote me.. Generally we add durration more than lift.. And heavier springs. Except for spings more duration cams cam be added from a manual shift engine, as the engines mated to autos had a sharp slope fore and aft.. There's also been talk of an all intake cam setup being tried aswell.. Or we can have them recut..Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
Just some more schtuff..
Lower intake nearly strait through runners.
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/int1.jpg
Cylinder head/intake port. (roughly)
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/int2.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/int3.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/int4.jpg
Cylinder head exhaust port.(roughly)
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/int5.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/int6.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/int7.jpg
Hemispherical combustion chambers with cathedral valve seats..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/int8.jpg
..And a nice ass to boot!..:chuckles:
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...ttro1/int9.jpg
I don't think I ever got to see the bottom of those heads.
Hey there jim what ya got?
A HEMI bo
But jim that look like a 6er
Well I just spent a good bit of time going through my build pics and just realized I don't have any of the bottoms.. I could have sworn I took some.. I got pics of my of the heads for the camaro but no TDC's.. I'll get some from my other set and post them up for ya later.Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
that's the same thing that i thought when i first saw it but yea it is a 6 cylinder ( a cool 6 cylinder)Quote:
Originally Posted by c5z28
i think i saw you wrote that this engine didn't fit on the f-body. so where is it going.
I don't usually refer it as a "Hemi" but it does have hemisphereical combustion cambers.. Also if you look @ my earlier photos of the other engine you can see the rounded raised areas of my pistons..Quote:
Originally Posted by dav-02ws6-m6
:spit:In the car the original engine came out of and what this thread is all about.;):rock:Quote:
Originally Posted by dav-02ws6-m6
Here we go, found some chopped ones..
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...LDOHCchop4.jpg
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/t...LDOHCchop1.jpg
You do damn fine work Smittro... that thing is a work of art.
Thank you Jeff, they are just so ugly stock I had to do something different with it.. The cam covers are actually mounted one backwards and one in it proper place.. Had to steal from one of my other engines for the look you see here. They come factory with 2 completely different cam covers, and look hideous.. How you see mine now is pretty much how it will be installed, striped of almost everything a TDC does'nt need to perform.:yup::usa:Quote:
Originally Posted by pajeff02
Some of you guys maybe wondering why I went with this color scheme.. Well if you look @ the Z34 in the pic you'll notice a silver and red sport stripe.. So in keeping things matching I went with the red and silver look.. I wanted it to also look like you could just eat it like candy.. Notice the pulleys aswell, some I painted some I did'nt.. That's because they also match the color scheme already on the car or will be there later.. Ex: black belt rollers and blue bearing caps, also a blue hue TB butterfly.. Reason, the couplings for the charge pipes are the same blue or near to it..:vodka: It's a hobby, what can I say?:shrug:
the other day that i was checking your pics i kind off felt like making a research and i found that it came on the z34 and i think a buick( i could be wrong) i also went to youtube and found qute a few (pontiac) fieros i thought it sounded it cool for a 6er.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
No Buicks, buick opted for the Series-I 3800.. Which had to have a super charger (and quite a few more cubes 231=3800/207=LQ1) to achieve LQ1 N/A power output and the LQ1 STILL endges the N/A (L36) 3800 in HP today.. The TDC is ALL Chevrolet from concept to prototype, to production.. Then Pontiac got it, then Olds, then Caddy (Father of early northstar program).. In that order.. Use of the TDC in the Fiero is becomming more and more common. Which is great, these are the guys that help create aftermarkets just as the Buick guys did when they started messing with T-types.. There are some really good single turbo TDC setups out there too.. Reason it has taken so long is the TDC has taken very long to prove it self as a real performer even tho that is all the engine ever was, (dirrectly incorperated race tech of the time) with completely computer designed heads (pretty new tech in 89-91).. Mostly because of it's complexity of maintainance. Most folks don't own the 8 piece TDC timing set (and nor do many mechanic shops)... Just resently ONE company has started reproducing the proper ones.. Not to mention it had a tendancy to eat any trans axle put beside it (7100 rpms all day will do that), EXCEPT the Muncie Getrag 284 5spd.. Unfortunately it was only offered for 3 years in first gen Z34, and a couple of years of the ill fated Fiero.. The 284 5spd Reutinely gets bolted to LS6 engines for use in Fiero (final production year: 1988).. Today there are a few more trany options.. But get ready to dig deep, because they only come in Northstar powered stuff;) the others were built before your birth and are few and far between to find..:firedevil:Quote:
Originally Posted by dav-02ws6-m6
that's some very cool info. you sure know your stuff. i didn't know most of all the things that you mention. it's always good to learn something new
:woot: I appreciate the interest..:canada:Quote:
Originally Posted by dav-02ws6-m6
awesome project. great to see a 6 cylinder buildup. :yay:
yo, so what kinda gas milage and driveability can you expect from this thing? and will your stock tranny hold up to it?
Thanks man! :usa:Quote:
Originally Posted by Z28_Driver
Mpgs not a concern.. Stock I got about 24 highway if I stayed out of it. Prolly be around those numbers since it's a virgin spec engine (no remans) with some rotating goodies added.. May get +/- a little with FI..Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
No sir can't use my stock trany in any way shape or form.. It would die long before seeing max boost 4t60e is a junk unit from new:yup:... Had to have one built (still waiting :suicide:), m19 Muncie 4spd.. 4:11 take off.. But it should be in real soon..
I did use my old intake since it was preped already, and I had to pirate one of the rear cam covers off my other motors (cover @ the right or the pic is backwards) to achieve the look..
On the trany issue I have found over all the research I've done on this particular engine, that it is unwise to put any manual trans next to this engine that is'nt a Muncie..
so what application did the m19 come in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
TDC 3.4 all stock:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z5_2suyVnc&feature=related[/ame]
TDC 3.4 with exhaust:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY16gJEdRGs&feature=related[/ame]
TDC ONE turbine stockish bottom end and custom headers:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6jv_s1hUJg&feature=related[/ame]
:firedevil::firedevil:
:hide: 4spd v6 "x" code Chevy Citation..:lmao::welder:Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
haha no shit!! i had an 81ish citation we used for a woods buggy!! ....funny shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
Yup that be the one:yup: Had to send it out for obvious reasons:lol: but it's the cases your after when you're building one to be near bullet proof..Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
Trany can be found beside the carburated 2.8L v6, or the Iron Duke! :lmao:
You know the legondary Iron Duke right?:lmao:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_MgzGRc3k4&feature=related[/ame]
thats basically how the citation was...that sumbitch sat for a few years....put a fresh battery on it and dumped some gas in the carb and it busted right off
:werd: them things never seem to die.. Tho the Citation was one of GM's biggest blunders from the 80's..Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
what is this beastly monstrosity and can i fit one on my ride!!!????Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
That is a solid chunk of airdraft aluminum that is currently being machined into a tunnel ram.. The lower piece is my lower intake b4 paint/machining..Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
Tube dia. = 4.5in./ ID. 3.5ish..
:yup: you could prolly make one for your engine too..:usa:
ill probly just stick to my stock intake.....looks too complicated for me to tackle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
damn that looks expensive
:werd: yeah you may need a mill or a machine shop but it could be done in something for an SBC I'm sure..:yup:Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
Not to bad if you find a good reputable supplier.. Unless you do it yourself, most of the cost will be tied up in machine work..Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
im still tryin to figure out if it would be beneficial to run my ac ducts into my intake lol...you know, cold air n what not?....i could turn the fan up high if i wanted to make some serious power lol
:lmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
damn...:wtcslap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
Went to the Car Craft Super Street Meet at National Trail back in '96. There was a guy running a Buick GN with the AC plumbed into the intercooler.
:faint: Wow i had no clue that would really work.. Thnikin' about it, I guess I can see how it might work.. Tho that's a lot of extra piping for iffy gains..:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by pajeff02
Now that I really think about it. I remember a while back guys fabing throttle plates that could hold ice like a try.. Then watching them dump half a bag of ice into it beween runs..:drivin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
I like the idea of using a fabricated a/c unit that would at one point hook up to a screen like a maf to cool the incoming air. It would help the IAT's but I can see parastic loss being a factor. Maybe an electric compressor sort of like they use the electric water pump on.
Question is whether the added load of the AC compressor was sufficiently overcome by whatever power gains he achieved. I was skeptical at best, but he appeared quite happy with the setup.
:yup: I think it's something like 5-15hp loss when the a/c pump is running..Quote:
Originally Posted by pajeff02
in my 2500, i drilled holes at the bottom of the stock airbox and removed the metal tray under it so that its a big open flow of air there...i wonder if i dumped some ice in the bottom would it show some gains...Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
:gtfo: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
in your situation, the ice belongs in the cooler in the box....Quote:
Originally Posted by needls1again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
damn....:wtcslap:Quote:
Originally Posted by suede
That's all you got Wade? Could'nt even say, "hey nice v6" ??:lmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by suede
Looking good, not as good as that new shop looks though...
Thanks bro! Haha.. Yeah I had good help building it too..:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
lol the only 4cylinder i own is faster than both the V-8sQuote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
4-cyl?? Blasphamy! :Poland::lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by suede
Hayabusa.... :sex:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
That's not an engine.. It's a god..:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by suede
