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strut rub is not near as common on the 05/06 car. I like both cars....the LS1 is a great motor that is mod friendly but the 05/06 is the better of the two. You can argue points and counter points all day but the 05/06 has more going for it out of the box than the 04's did.
05/06s are more valuable and desirable there is no arguing this. I'm not by any means saying they don't depreciate quickly or in someway highly collectible but go take a look at prices and compare an 04 to and 05/06 with the same miles the 04 will be much cheaper. There is a reason for this and it's not the 1-2 yr age difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLS_Addict
Yeah only more cubes, HP and TQ why would anyone buying a performance oriented car want more performance?Quote:
Originally Posted by TLS_Addict
:Popcorn:
The 05-06 is a much better car, more refined being the bugs where worked out, mine has had no problems, trans is better, ls-2 is nice, tails, nice dual exhaust, sterring wheel controls, hood looks better even thought it is non functional, interior locks. Sorry my friend but there are many differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLS_Addict
Easy boys.......lol I agree the 05/06 is a better car. No doubt about it but to drive one back to back from the other there is not a 'leap & bound' difference.
The LS2 makes more power than the LS1, I am not going to say otherwise. Granted the 04 depreciates more, part of it being they are a year older and less power. It doesnt take a rocket scientist (I would never make it as one :)) to see that. Strut rub is not as common on the 05/06 but it is still there, just like the radius rod bushing issue is still there. Its not the cars fault, its the cheap ass materials!
RC74racer, you confirmed what I said. haha See where I said it makes more hp/tq? If your argument were to hold true people would have jumped to the LS3 in the Camaro or the Corvette instead of "settling" for the 6.0 LS2 based on your statement. I mean after all, more performance is to be found in the LS3. Another part about the 04 why it depreciates more is because some of them were made in 03 and some in 04. Hence why the same car is worth more than the other but because its a few months older its worth less than the other.
The trans is better in the 05/06 only if you get the slush-box. The 6-speed is the same tranny. Also, not all have oil consumption issues but the LS2 is known for this. Not all have it but it is a known issue. Strut rub and radius rod bushings are known for the 04 as being a problem but not all had it. They ALL still have the same weak ass rear springs and rear-end. So, not all the bugs were ever worked out of the GTO. No car ever does. :)
I don't see how I confirmed what you said that is was no big deal that they have more HP/TQ. I think it's a huge deal when you are talking about two like cars for the same amount of money. The OP was talking about spending 20k on an LS1 GTO which is why everyone recommended looking for an LS2 GTO. If he had 10k to spend he'd only have one option for a GTO. You can't use the same logic with an LS3 camaro or corvette because of the price. If I were in the market for a C6 vette and could afford a low mileage version I would definitely limit my search to an LS3. There is also less of a difference in HP/TQ between an LS2 and LS3 than an LS2 and LS1.
I think something else you have to look at is value per dollar. The 04's are viewed as the less desirable but that can actually work to a buyers advantage. You can get a low mileage 04 much cheaper than an 05/06.....the money saved can be put into the LS1 to make it a real sleeper. When I bought my 04 that's exactly what I did....I bought it in 05 with 150 miles on it and it still had the window sticker of $31k in the glove box.....I got it for $21k. Drove it for 5 years and sold it for $12k. I loved my 04 and although the 05/06 has some things better about them the 04's are still really nice cars and after you factor in the value/dollar they're not a bad way to go. I still would pass on this ultra low mile car for the money they're asking. You can get either an 06 for the same money or a low mile 04 for ALOT less money.
I never said "No big deal". The power is different but if you look at the top running cars on LS1GTO you will see they run almost the same. Granted, the LS1 with the automatics dont quite cut it like the LS2 autos but most of the cars are 6-speeds anyway on both lists. I think the fastest LS1s are between 13.0X and 13.3 stock and the LS2s are 12.8X to 13.2 stock. Not a world of difference but there is a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by rc74racer
My friend, my compar-o of the cars came down to the biggest difference being between the hp/tq. Then you said it again, I agree the hp/tq is a big deal. The price for an equal mileage 05/06 is MORE than the 04, granted the price is not as drastic as the LS3 Camaro but its still there.
The OP would be nuts to buy that 04 GTO for that, if you dont see that is basically what I told him. For 20k I would go for a low mileage 05/06 and skip the 04s no matter the miles. Stock for stock LS2>LS1 no matter how you look at it. I just cant get over how people say that the LS2 cars are SO much better. Other than the engine you really dont get much else. Unless you count a ram air NON functional hood, split exhaust (LS1 and LS2 are dual), lighted buttons on the 06, and a door lock button and the option of 18" tires for the 06 with a thinner tire.
At least he is not looking at 4.6 litre mustangs. :) hahha
A 25k mile 05/06 cars are out there for decent prices which is the rte I would go down without hesitation if I was in the market for another GTO. Like you said, you can work a lower priced one to your advantage if you want a mean street machine. Figure a 12k gto with 4k worth of parts thrown on it makes it a pretty bad ass car. But, if you want a driver the 6.0 GTO is the way to go for the more power.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0rion
04 was still the only year to get the Cosmos and Barbados :)
I would not buy it but thats just me, only having 150 miles on it scares me more than it having 100k on it. Personally I would look at an 04 with 20-30k for about half of what there asking for that one. 04's are dirt cheap these days, I could not and would not dish out 21k for any year gto. I only paid 18k for my 05 2 years ago with 21k on it.
I hate drive by wire... therefore i hate 05-06s. also, For having 50 more hp they sure as hell dont dyno 50hp higher then the ls1s... thats most of the dynos i've seen anyway.
04cosmos.
Most 04s are in the low 300s for hp and 310-320tq and the 05/06s are in the 330-340 hp and tq. Remember there is drive line loss, roughly 15% for the manual and 18% for the auto. They do dyno higher.
a 20-30 hp difference at best, and i've seen ls1s dyno 320-330hp and ran the track times to prove it... factory freaks im sure. lol. Im just not buying it. I hate how much people down talk the 04's cause there almighty ls2 claims 50 more hp but i sure dont see it. Plus for having oil consumption problems and drive by wire throttle.... I'll stick with my 04. :)
20-30hp at the wheels I hope you mean. Most LS2s I have seen are around 340s at the wheels and some GTOs A4s as low as in the 290 range. It happens.
50 hp is 50 hp....no getting around it.
Here is how I like to explain it. That 50 hp comes from roughly 20 cubic inches of size, the 243 heads, and the .525 lift cam. An LS1 with those little things makes 385hp. Hence the 2001 Z06 Corvette engine. It has the 243 heads and the .515 lift cam so the engines make 15 hp difference (advertised) at the crank.
I have seen a few LS1s dyno near the 320 range but they are either freaks or the dyno is being played with. I like the smooth hood of the 04 and a few of the 05s that came with them (17 or so I think). The GTO was brought here to be like European cars and after a year GM decided to make it more like the muslce cars of old and other US cars. Nothing wrong with that, some things just appeal to others more than some.
Either way its not a Mustang. lol
Cosmos, The 04's are good cars for sure, the drive by wire has been no problem, I Guess I am very lucky, I have had no issues with mine ( knock on wood) and you have one rare color. LS1's have been around a long time and with a few mods you are all over the 05-06. To each his own.:zoom:Quote:
Originally Posted by 04cosmos
If anyone is interested, my GF is selling her '04 QSM A4 GTO. Asking for 13K obo. PM me for details.
I have yet to have a 05 or 06 come within 4 car lengths of my 04....and that guy was running twin turbo's.
I am bone ass stock. Stock as your Grandma's panties. Sorta. Well maybe a CAI.....
Sarge we know better, but nice try. Merry Christmas Brother glad to see you around again!!!!:drivin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge
Hey man......have a Merry Christmas...