Marriage and Divorce

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Originally Posted by toneloc60

So, you married a woman with the predetermination to have a divorce? That's what it looks like. I understand protecting yourself, but why the hell would you marry a person who you believe it may ever be neccesary to protect yourself from financially? Seems to me that you were trying to live life with a safety net. How can you ever really dive into love with all of your heart when you have a safety net? Seems like a waste to me.

In all seriousness, if you want to avoid a woman taking everything from you when you get divorced all you need to do is find a woman that you can live happily with, and she can live happily with you for the rest of your lives. You know, the way marriage is supposed to be.

Don't marry a woman because you have great sex. Don't marry a woman because she's beautiful. Don't marry a woman because you have history. Don't marry a woman because you have a good time when you are together, most of the time.

Marry a woman who you have respect for. Marry a woman who you are able to have conversations with. Marry a woman who you care about more than yourself. Marry a woman who cares about you more than herself. Marry a woman who loves you for you and doesn't want to change you. Marry a woman who you do not want to change. Marry a woman who has the same values and beleifs you do. Marry a woman who you can picture being the mother of your children. Marry a woman who you picture being happy with once she's put on weight. Marry a woman who is your best friend.

Then you can keep your stuff.

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That's all fine and good, but don't pretend people and circumstances don't change.

So with the divorce rate over 50%, I'd have to imagine a large chunk of them satisfied your little check list there, but 5-10-20 years later, things changes or one or both of the spouses changed. THEN money hungry lawyers, and anti-man judges get involved, and then your little check list can do NOTHING to keep you from getting completely destroyed financially as well as losing your kids. Hell, she can just one day get sick of you, cheat on you, and then get caught, and you can STILL get fucked out of tons of money in court AND lose the kids as well. So pretending that being concerned about all this before hand is wrong or something is just foolishness in my opinion.

toneloc60 lives in fantasy land.

Women = evil
Pussy = extraction tool
Marriage = license to financially ruin

:true:

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Originally Posted by BillyT

That's all fine and good, but don't pretend people and circumstances don't change.

So with the divorce rate over 50%, I'd have to imagine a large chunk of them satisfied your little check list there, but 5-10-20 years later, things changes or one or both of the spouses changed. THEN money hungry lawyers, and anti-man judges get involved, and then your little check list can do NOTHING to keep you from getting completely destroyed financially as well as losing your kids. Hell, she can just one day get sick of you, cheat on you, and then get caught, and you can STILL get fucked out of tons of money in court AND lose the kids as well. So pretending that being concerned about all this before hand is wrong or something is just foolishness in my opinion.

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I'm not saying that life will be lived happily ever after if you followed that checklist, as you called it. What I'm trying to display is that people all too ofter get married without actually being fully committed to a life long marriage. That includes women who would someday get sick of a man, or cheat on them.

The thing about marriage is, both parties have to be committed. They have to wake up everyday and look at it as it is them, the two of them, vs. the world. No matter what happens, they are a team. They have to have each other's backs, so to speak.

Life is no fairy tale. Shit happens. But if a couple is determined to work together they will not end up divorced. There's a saying, "Couples who pray together stay together."

Am I religious? You're damn right I am. And I believe that when a couple shares their faith in Jesus as their savior, and when they turn to the Lord for strength and guidance in times of need, they will stay together. "A cord of three strands is not easily broken."

But, that requires both parties, every day, to choose to be there for one another. Not, "well, I don't like what you did, so go screw yourself."

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Originally Posted by toneloc60

I'm not saying that life will be lived happily ever after if you followed that checklist, as you called it. What I'm trying to display is that people all too ofter get married without actually being fully committed to a life long marriage. That includes women who would someday get sick of a man, or cheat on them.

The thing about marriage is, both parties have to be committed. They have to wake up everyday and look at it as it is them, the two of them, vs. the world. No matter what happens, they are a team. They have to have each other's backs, so to speak.

Life is no fairy tale. Shit happens. But if a couple is determined to work together they will not end up divorced. There's a saying, "Couples who pray together stay together."

Am I religious? You're damn right I am. And I believe that when a couple shares their faith in Jesus as their savior, and when they turn to the Lord for strength and guidance in times of need, they will stay together. "A cord of three strands is not easily broken."

But, that requires both parties, every day, to choose to be there for one another. Not, "well, I don't like what you did, so go screw yourself."

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I knew your Peter Pan advice on marriage was coming from a mind that's fully absorbed with religious mysticism. No big shock there.

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Originally Posted by BillyT

I knew your Peter Pan advice on marriage was coming from a mind that's fully absorbed with religious mysticism. No big shock there.

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Have I insulted you? At what point did I make a personal attack on you?

I'm sure you have catagorized me into a neat little mold that you probably classify all believers into. One of Bible beating Jesus freaks, right? Well, what has any true believer ever done to you? You likely think if someone believes in God they are simply looking for a crutch to get through life, or they are naive. That's okay. You have the right. I don't care what your beliefs are.

Why would I bring up religion when talking about marriage? Well, marriage is a religious institution.

So, I will look for your reply and I'm sure we can debate this more. But for now, Peter Pan, signing out.

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Originally Posted by SamD_Ind

Have the house & car in your parents name. She can't touch them. lol btdt

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until they die then its harder then a divorce. thanks jeremy especially if there's no will and more then one kid.

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Originally Posted by toneloc60

Have I insulted you? At what point did I make a personal attack on you?

I'm sure you have catagorized me into a neat little mold that you probably classify all believers into. One of Bible beating Jesus freaks, right? Well, what has any true believer ever done to you? You likely think if someone believes in God they are simply looking for a crutch to get through life, or they are naive. That's okay. You have the right. I don't care what your beliefs are.

Why would I bring up religion when talking about marriage? Well, marriage is a religious institution.

So, I will look for your reply and I'm sure we can debate this more. But for now, Peter Pan, signing out.

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You opened your mouth to criticize someone for protecting himself from the very real devastation that a divorce can bring to a man (and does to half of them), and it turned out HE WAS RIGHT, and he truly did save his own ass.

Then you threw all kinds of holier than thou advice at him about marriage that basically amounted to "Marry for the right reasons, and with God's blessing and you'll be fine", as if you had all the answers, and as if you had ANY CLUE what HIS reasons were for getting involved in the LEGAL CONTRACT of marriage in the first place!

So... then I criticised you for your pompous overzealous diatribe that you so unsurprisingly ended by dragging your religious views into the conversation, and you start whining.

Well Boo hoo! Next time don't bite off more than you can chew, and maybe actually follow your religion a bit more: (Judge not lest thou be judged)

P.S. If you'd like to debate me in any of my numerous threads debunking man made religions and mysticism, do a search on my name in the Politics/Debate forum where I do 90% of my posting and have been for years.

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Originally Posted by Zboner

anything that you own before you get married, then if you get divorced the bitch cant touch the stuff. so buy your house before you marry and keep it in your name!

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That is 100% not true.

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Originally Posted by Zboner

i mean if you own the house and say not live there and is paid off then she cant touch it

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This is also 100% not true.

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Originally Posted by BillyT

www.nomarriage.com

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This is 100% true.

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Originally Posted by BillyT

You opened your mouth to criticize someone for protecting himself from the very real devastation that a divorce can bring to a man, and it turned out HE WAS RIGHT, and he truly did save his own ass.

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Undoubteldly his setting up a safety net ahead of time was because in some way or another he had reservations about getting married. Which likely lead to the divorce in the first place. If you have any reservation about getting married. Don't get married. Enjoy your life as a single person. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[/QUOTE]Then you threw all kinds of holier than thou advice at him about marriage that basically amounted to "Marry for the right reasons, and with God's blessing and you'll be fine", as if you had all the answers, and as if you had ANY CLUE what HIS reasons were for getting involved in the LEGAL CONTRACT of marriage in the first place![/QUOTE]
Holier than thou? Why, because I said people should actually use their heads before they get married? Because I think they (people as a whole) should stop and think about the decisions they make instead of being so impulsive. That's holier than thou? No, that is being reasonable, practicle, responsible and acting intelligently.

[/QUOTE]So... then I criticised you for your pompous overzealous diatribe that you so usurprisngly ended by dragging your chosen religion into the conversation, and you start whining.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between critisizing (which means to critique) and personally attacking someone. I critisized a persons thought process and actions. I C-R-I-T-I-Q-U-E-D. Isn't that what a forum is for? To interject your own opinion, or critism as it really is, into a discussion? At no point was I whining.

If you feel I was, you are interjecting an assumed emotion into the words I have typed.


[/QUOTE]Boo hoo, Peter Pan.[/QUOTE] I don't want your tears. But thanks anyway.

[/QUOTE]P.S. If you'd like to debate in me in any of my numerous threads debunking man made religions, do a search on my name in the Politics/Debate forum where I do 90% of my posting and have been for years[/QUOTE]
Good for you. You are among a very small percentile of the world that seems to have the strength and character to form and defend an opinion. Your opinion is apparently in direct conflict with mine. That doesn't mean I think any less of you. Hey, I don't even know you. But, keep up the good work there fella. Eventually, all of your preaching in the Politics/Debate forum will pay off. Someday you'll have even more people share YOUR opinions. I mean, that is what you want, right? Your way is the only way and all that. Anyone who doesn't share your scope on the world should look out, cuz you definitely have something to say to those "close minded, narrow, conformists."

--Peter Pan--

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Originally Posted by toneloc60

So, you married a woman with the predetermination to have a divorce? That's what it looks like. I understand protecting yourself, but why the hell would you marry a person who you believe it may ever be neccesary to protect yourself from financially? Seems to me that you were trying to live life with a safety net. How can you ever really dive into love with all of your heart when you have a safety net? Seems like a waste to me.

In all seriousness, if you want to avoid a woman taking everything from you when you get divorced all you need to do is find a woman that you can live happily with, and she can live happily with you for the rest of your lives. You know, the way marriage is supposed to be.

Don't marry a woman because you have great sex. Don't marry a woman because she's beautiful. Don't marry a woman because you have history. Don't marry a woman because you have a good time when you are together, most of the time.

Marry a woman who you have respect for. Marry a woman who you are able to have conversations with. Marry a woman who you care about more than yourself. Marry a woman who cares about you more than herself. Marry a woman who loves you for you and doesn't want to change you. Marry a woman who you do not want to change. Marry a woman who has the same values and beleifs you do. Marry a woman who you can picture being the mother of your children. Marry a woman who you picture being happy with once she's put on weight. Marry a woman who is your best friend.

Then you can keep your stuff.

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This is a fairy tale fantasy. People change, women change, men change, relationships change. You can NOT make a determination with 100% surety that 50 years from now the woman you married will still love you.

I married the person you described in your scenario. She was all those things to me, and I was all those things to her. I am just finishing up an ugly divorce. Marriage may been a religous union in the past, but now it is simply a financial tool of women. A marriage certificate gives the women the ability to do whatever she wants and risk nothing. She stands to lose NOTHING if the marriage dissolves. She keeps all her shit, and probably half of your shit too.

If you really want to marry a girl, have the wedding, do the religous ceremony, but do not legally marry. Some states will fuck you then too with the 'common law' marriage, but if you maintain a seperate bank account, you can usually get around that.

Never, ever sign a marriage certificate. The idea of emotional marriage can be achieved without the incredibly one sided system of today. If she doesn't understand you're desire to remain legally single, then she's not the right girl for you to marry.

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Originally Posted by Zboner

anything that you own before you get married, then if you get divorced the bitch cant touch the stuff. so buy your house before you marry and keep it in your name!

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Exactly. IF I do get married I'm going to have all of my assets collected first. With the way things are these days, a man is absolutely retarded to get married without a pre-nup and lots of pre-marriage assets.

I work for an attorney and believe me, things can get very ugly. I'd almost rather be around hardened criminals than men and women fighting over a divorce. Make sure you get your shit straight beforehand by picking a woman that you pretty much know won't screw you over and will be your best friend. IOW, your chances are MUCH better by meeting someone on match.com, church, political gathering, etc. than meeting someone in a bar or club. Another thing is a background check. Sure, they might be expensive now, but $500-$1000 for an EXTENSIVE check is far better than giving her half of your hard earned possessions down the road. You won't want her to find out you're doing these things, of course. Just be smart about it and protect your ASSets and you'll be fine. Consult an attorney beforehand to discuss your protection also, as this can be very valuable to you down the road if things turn into a shit storm.

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Originally Posted by toneloc60

Undoubteldly his setting up a safety net ahead of time was because in some way or another he had reservations about getting married. Which likely lead to the divorce in the first place.

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How the flying fuck do you know that??? YOU DONT! Your just presuming to know about a person's personal decisions and why their marriage failed. How ridiculous!

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There's a difference between critisizing (which means to critique) and personally attacking someone. I critisized a persons thought process and actions. I C-R-I-T-I-Q-U-E-D. Isn't that what a forum is for? To interject your own opinion, or critism as it really is, into a discussion?

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Bullshit! You passed judgement on him without know a shred of info about his life or marriage. What happened to being a good christian too???

(Judge not lest thou be judged)

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Good for you. You are among a very small percentile of the world that seems to have the strength and character to form and defend an opinion. Your opinion is apparently in direct conflict with mine. That doesn't mean I think any less of you. Hey, I don't even know you. But, keep up the good work there fella. Eventually, all of your preaching in the Politics/Debate forum will pay off. Someday you'll have even more people share YOUR opinions. I mean, that is what you want, right? Your way is the only way and all that. Anyone who doesn't share your scope on the world should look out, cuz you definitely have something to say to those "close minded, narrow, conformists."

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Thanks Peter Pan. I'll keep up with my free thinking intellectual pursuits, and you keep up with your Bible preaching, and we'll all be just fine.

That is of course until you go to heaven and I go to hell to burn for all of eternity! :lol:

Oh, and one more thing, if the woman objects to any pre-nup or anything that is about/for your protection, DON"T MARRY HER. She'll try to play the trust and "if you really love me" cards but don't give in. Consider it your marital death (more than likely) if you do.

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Originally Posted by neat

This is a fairy tale fantasy. People change, women change, men change, relationships change. You can NOT make a determination with 100% surety that 50 years from now the woman you married will still love you.

I married the person you described in your scenario. She was all those things to me, and I was all those things to her. I am just finishing up an ugly divorce. Marriage may been a religous union in the past, but now it is simply a financial tool of women. A marriage certificate gives the women the ability to do whatever she wants and risk nothing. She stands to lose NOTHING if the marriage dissolves. She keeps all her shit, and probably half of your shit too.

If you really want to marry a girl, have the wedding, do the religous ceremony, but do not legally marry. Some states will fuck you then too with the 'common law' marriage, but if you maintain a seperate bank account, you can usually get around that.

Never, ever sign a marriage certificate. The idea of emotional marriage can be achieved without the incredibly one sided system of today. If she doesn't understand you're desire to remain legally single, then she's not the right girl for you to marry.

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Hey, sorry that things didn't turn out well for you. That sucks man.

I know a lot of people think marriage is less religious and more of a legal deal now, and I sort of agree. But, I really think if people were getting married for the orginal, religious reasons, more marriages would last.

You're right though, there are a lot of women out there that marry money or security. Once those paracites to society get what they want and use it up, or find a better business opportunity, they're off like a prom dress.

My overall message that it seems everyone is skipping over is just be careful about who you marry. It's not a garauntee that it's going to work out. But, there aren't any garautees in life.

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Originally Posted by toneloc60

So, you married a woman with the predetermination to have a divorce? That's what it looks like. I understand protecting yourself, but why the hell would you marry a person who you believe it may ever be neccesary to protect yourself from financially? Seems to me that you were trying to live life with a safety net. How can you ever really dive into love with all of your heart when you have a safety net? Seems like a waste to me.

In all seriousness, if you want to avoid a woman taking everything from you when you get divorced all you need to do is find a woman that you can live happily with, and she can live happily with you for the rest of your lives. You know, the way marriage is supposed to be.

Don't marry a woman because you have great sex. Don't marry a woman because she's beautiful. Don't marry a woman because you have history. Don't marry a woman because you have a good time when you are together, most of the time.

Marry a woman who you have respect for. Marry a woman who you are able to have conversations with. Marry a woman who you care about more than yourself. Marry a woman who cares about you more than herself. Marry a woman who loves you for you and doesn't want to change you. Marry a woman who you do not want to change. Marry a woman who has the same values and beleifs you do. Marry a woman who you can picture being the mother of your children. Marry a woman who you picture being happy with once she's put on weight. Marry a woman who is your best friend.

Then you can keep your stuff.

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in a perfect world you marry a person till death do you part.
in the real world, 60% of married people get divorced within two years.

ive seen way to many guys get fucked over and lose alot and i wasnt going to join that list and didnt.

i take it you have never been married.

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Originally Posted by toneloc60

I'm not saying that life will be lived happily ever after if you followed that checklist, as you called it. What I'm trying to display is that people all too ofter get married without actually being fully committed to a life long marriage. That includes women who would someday get sick of a man, or cheat on them.

The thing about marriage is, both parties have to be committed. They have to wake up everyday and look at it as it is them, the two of them, vs. the world. No matter what happens, they are a team. They have to have each other's backs, so to speak.

Life is no fairy tale. Shit happens. But if a couple is determined to work together they will not end up divorced. There's a saying, "Couples who pray together stay together."

Am I religious? You're damn right I am. And I believe that when a couple shares their faith in Jesus as their savior, and when they turn to the Lord for strength and guidance in times of need, they will stay together. "A cord of three strands is not easily broken."

But, that requires both parties, every day, to choose to be there for one another. Not, "well, I don't like what you did, so go screw yourself."

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please spare us the jesus christ bullshit.
it has nothing to do with real life. talk to a person whos been divorced, where was jesus christ then??
shit happens and people change.

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Originally Posted by BillyT

That's all fine and good, but don't pretend people and circumstances don't change.

So with the divorce rate over 50%, I'd have to imagine a large chunk of them satisfied your little check list there, but 5-10-20 years later, things changes or one or both of the spouses changed. THEN money hungry lawyers, and anti-man judges get involved, and then your little check list can do NOTHING to keep you from getting completely destroyed financially as well as losing your kids. Hell, she can just one day get sick of you, cheat on you, and then get caught, and you can STILL get fucked out of tons of money in court AND lose the kids as well. So pretending that being concerned about all this before hand is wrong or something is just foolishness in my opinion.

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a man who speaks the truth.

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Originally Posted by nhraformula

in a perfect world you marry a person till death do you part.
in the real world, 60% of married people get divorced within two years.

ive seen way to many guys get fucked over and lose alot and i wasnt going to join that list and didnt.

i take it you have never been married.

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Nope. I haven't been married yet. I came close, but thankfully found out she wasn't what I thought she was. I gave it time and the truth around that chic eventually came out.

I am, however, getting married soon. I know that makes me look all too glassy eyed hopeful about the world. Whatever. I'm a realist, believe it or not. I am in the military and see more divorced people than most. Trust me, I'm not blind to the world around me or think that I'm special and what happens to other folks just wont happen to me.

My fiancee and I are going to make it because we believe the same things. We talk to each other. We've been together for three years now and have lived with each other for two. We've seen the good and the bad in each other. We've had our share of troubles in a relationship, but have worked through them because being together is what is important to us. She's my best friend and I'm hers.

I know if I go on anymore about it it's just going to sound like everything that everyone else says when it comes to their marriages, and how theirs wont end in divorce. So, I'll stop.