01 ta vs 08 gt

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07-03-2008, 01:38 PM
2K05GT

Quote:

Originally Posted by N20LT4

Uhh...the 3 valve just made it's way into production in the 2005 Mustang. I don't recall any three-valve-per-cylinder layout in Ford's lineup in the 1990's, so it is, infact, new technology. As far as being on par with the LT1's, I wouldn't jump to conclusions if I were you. The '96-97 Cobra WAS NOT on par with the '96-'97 Camaro SS. Here's a vintage Car & Driver comparison just for kicks in which your beloved 4.6 Cobra ran it's usual 14.0 quarter-mile time to the LT1's 13.6/106.

http://www.stangbangers.com/96_Cobra...rd_Article.htm

even though the cars were simular weight and HP the camaro has over 25ftlbs tq, and torque wins races right. thats whats needed top end, but who cares, I could not stand the 4th gen Mustangs either.

2003, Ford introduced a new 3-valve SOHC cylinder head with variable camshaft timing (VCT), improving power and torque over the previous 2-valve SOHC version

Quote:

Originally Posted by N20LT4

I literally pounced on several '96-98 Cobra's in my old Sebring Silver '97 SS when it was stock, 2 on the left and all, and even had my fun with a brand new at the time '01 Cobra in which I took by 2 cars. So no they were not on par with all LT1 cars. As far as being on par with the LS1's -Wrong Again Jack! Not even the '99 & '01's were a match for the '98-02 LS1 M6 cars.

who said on par, I never said that. I said that the LSx motor was not superior just had more HP, again Displacment still is king, the LS1 had 50+ more HP on a equal weight car, of course it was not a match, am I a parrot...

Quote:

Originally Posted by N20LT4

Your forgetting the 4.6L Cobra is a dual-cam motor. The four-valve-per-cylinder layout allows it to breath much more efficiently than a comparable pushrod engine of the same size. That's why virtually every single high-output, small displacement engine uses a mult-cam setup, i.e the Ferrari 3-liter V-8's, Lotus, Cadillac Northstar, etc. For example, look at the 1990-1995 GM 5.7L DOHC V-8 out of the ZR-1's. Those cars can make in excess of 550rwhp naturally aspirated with less effort compared to even an LS1. A 4-valve is not your typical V-8.

Not typical now but it will be. push rods are going away and you will see more GM engines getting OHC with multiple valves. I was hoping for this on the new camaro, but it looks like they are going with a push rod motor again.
07-03-2008, 02:04 PM
N20LT4

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2K05GT

2003, Ford introduced a new 3-valve SOHC cylinder head with variable camshaft timing (VCT), improving power and torque over the previous 2-valve SOHC version.

Did the 3-valve 4.6L set foot inside any of Fords vehicles in 2003? I may be wrong, but if not, then it didn't come into production until 2005...like I said. If so, then I stand corrected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2K05GT

who said on par, I never said that. I said that the LSx motor was not superior just had more HP, again Displacment still is king, the LS1 had 50+ more HP on a equal weight car, of course it was not a match, am I a parrot...

Your exact words:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2K05GT

...and have been on par with the LT1 and the early LS1's but have not made any advances since 1998.
.
07-03-2008, 06:17 PM
s197

Quote:

Originally Posted by N20LT4

Did the 3-valve 4.6L set foot inside any of Fords vehicles in 2003? I may be wrong, but if not, then it didn't come into production until 2005...like I said. If so, then I stand corrected.

The 3 valve heads made their debut in 2003 in the new 2004 F150 and Expedition. That was a 5.4 and not a 4.6, I believe the first 4.6 application was the 2005 Mustang in 2004.
07-03-2008, 07:48 PM
N20LT4

Quote:

Originally Posted by s197

The 3 valve heads made their debut in 2003 in the new 2004 F150 and Expedition. That was a 5.4 and not a 4.6, I believe the first 4.6 application was the 2005 Mustang in 2004.

Okay...as I thought.

Thanks for making that clear.
07-03-2008, 11:02 PM
xzaero0

If the newer mustangs are so fast that they are beating LSXs off the showroom floor then why are the "How to beat an LS1" threads so popular on most Mustang sites?

Only Slight interior and body changes, Sterotypes and the problems that GM didnt fix are what killed the Fbody and killed its sales. (Bad window motors, 10 bolt problems, opti sparks are just a few)
07-04-2008, 03:37 AM
mogs01gt

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzaero0

Only Slight interior and body changes, Sterotypes and the problems that GM didnt fix are what killed the Fbody and killed its sales. (Bad window motors, 10 bolt problems, opti sparks are just a few)

noo it had nothing to do with the fact they were over-priced, tons of quality issues, way too big for normal people and they were designed more for the F-body fan rather than the general public.

Blah blah blah, Mustangs and mod engines arent reliable. NOOO not at all, its not like the Mustang was rated the must reliable American made car in 2004....no that didnt happen. Its all made up I tell ya, its those biased magazines!!:hahano::nana:
07-04-2008, 05:52 AM
big hammer

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2K05GT

even though the cars were simular weight and HP the camaro has over 25ftlbs tq, and torque wins races right. thats whats needed top end, but who cares, I could not stand the 4th gen Mustangs either.

2003, Ford introduced a new 3-valve SOHC cylinder head with variable camshaft timing (VCT), improving power and torque over the previous 2-valve SOHC version

who said on par, I never said that. I said that the LSx motor was not superior just had more HP, again Displacment still is king, the LS1 had 50+ more HP on a equal weight car, of course it was not a match, am I a parrot...

Not typical now but it will be. push rods are going away and you will see more GM engines getting OHC with multiple valves. I was hoping for this on the new camaro, but it looks like they are going with a push rod motor again.

isnt the new zr1 a 24v pushrod design?
07-04-2008, 05:53 AM
big hammer

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogs01gt

What you dont know? All F-bodies run 10s on the internet!!

and stangs can actually compete with ls1 cars... on the internet.
07-04-2008, 06:55 AM
2K05GT

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzaero0

If the newer mustangs are so fast that they are beating LSXs off the showroom floor then why are the "How to beat an LS1" threads so popular on most Mustang sites?

Only Slight interior and body changes, Sterotypes and the problems that GM didnt fix are what killed the Fbody and killed its sales. (Bad window motors, 10 bolt problems, opti sparks are just a few)

No one is saying that the S197 is faster than an LS1 Camaro or T/A,
that would be a stupid and wrong comment. Physics dictates a different story. they weight the same, yet the LS1 has 35+ more HP and 50+ more torque, there is no way the Mustang can be faster, not going to happen. the point is that the new mustang is a lot better than the new edge or SN95 and is not as slow as some of you beleive. the 3V breaths almost as good as the 4V inthe Mach 1 plus it has VCT which adds torque on the top end. for what the 4.6L and mustang is it's not bad. Anyone that says the new mustang is faster than an LS1 FBOD is a moron. but once modded the 4.6L can walk on stock or near stock LS1 (not mod for mod). sure the LS1 is an older car, but it was canceled in 02 so the Mustang had no competition. I beleive if the Camaros stayed alive the Mustang would have been a better car today, probably with a 5.4L making 400hp. but once again the mustang will fall behind in power, but will still out sell the Camaro 2 to 1.

The Mustang has always appealed to the Young and Old, Men and Women alike, thats how it has stayed alive. it was not because of power, or the ability to make large amounts of power with modding. The day that a smaller engine with less hp car beats a large cube car with the same weight is the day the world ends.

I have beat over 1/2 the LS1 I have raced, (at the track) most are lighty moded with a lid and exhaust. I run average 12.5 in the 1/4 (my best is 12.41@109.35) with a stock motor and auto tranny, bolt ons only

So yea a Modded S197 will take a LS1 Camaro that is near stock and that is whats being posted onthe Mustangforums
07-04-2008, 07:38 AM
xzaero0

These people are why I dont care for mustangs, cause most (not eveyone)people I know with them are just like them.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/G...ang_157808.htm

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d...cial_15286.htm
07-04-2008, 07:51 AM
BLKCLOUD

Eeewww....stereotyping is your friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by big hammer

isnt the new zr1 a 24v pushrod design?

Negative, ghostrider.

The ZR1 is a model of a car (Corvette), not an engine. However, the engine (LS9) in the new ZR1 sports 16 valves....not 24.
07-04-2008, 07:57 AM
xzaero0

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2K05GT

No one is saying that the S197 is faster than an LS1 Camaro or T/A,
that would be a stupid and wrong comment. Physics dictates a different story. they weight the same, yet the LS1 has 35+ more HP and 50+ more torque, there is no way the Mustang can be faster, not going to happen. the point is that the new mustang is a lot better than the new edge or SN95 and is not as slow as some of you beleive. the 3V breaths almost as good as the 4V inthe Mach 1 plus it has VCT which adds torque on the top end. for what the 4.6L and mustang is it's not bad. Anyone that says the new mustang is faster than an LS1 FBOD is a moron. but once modded the 4.6L can walk on stock or near stock LS1 (not mod for mod). sure the LS1 is an older car, but it was canceled in 02 so the Mustang had no competition. I beleive if the Camaros stayed alive the Mustang would have been a better car today, probably with a 5.4L making 400hp. but once again the mustang will fall behind in power, but will still out sell the Camaro 2 to 1.

The Mustang has always appealed to the Young and Old, Men and Women alike, thats how it has stayed alive. it was not because of power, or the ability to make large amounts of power with modding. The day that a smaller engine with less hp car beats a large cube car with the same weight is the day the world ends.

I have beat over 1/2 the LS1 I have raced, (at the track) most are lighty moded with a lid and exhaust. I run average 12.5 in the 1/4 (my best is 12.41@109.35) with a stock motor and auto tranny, bolt ons only

So yea a Modded S197 will take a LS1 Camaro that is near stock and that is whats being posted onthe Mustangforums

I'm sure that a mildly modded S197 Mustang can take out a stock or near stock LS1. Isn't that what we all mod our cars for is to beat someone else or to go faster? From personal exp. I havent been able to find one yet but there is a 07 427R running around I may have to get ahold of it and see whats its got.
07-04-2008, 08:14 AM
N20LT4

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzaero0

I havent been able to find one yet but there is a 07 427R running around I may have to get ahold of it and see whats its got.

It should have high 12's in it. Are you up to the task?
07-04-2008, 09:26 AM
lemons12

high 12s... and this car costs how much???? haha id be up for that task REAL QUICK.. id show him the :moon: of me car.. lol
07-04-2008, 09:40 AM
lemons12

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2K05GT

Point is that the 4.6L 2, 3 and 4v engines were around all throught the 90's
and have been on par with the LT1 and the early LS1's but have not made any advances since 1998. except for the 3V (one valve less than it's 1996 counterpart and has VCT) this has been the same engine throughout the late 90 to 2004. I for one was disappointed that ford went with this platform in 05 but thats the way it is. So my point was that the 4.6 for what it is, is still an old platform engine that has progressed to it's conclusion making the same power as the 1996 4v engine. that BTW was the same as the LT1 being 1Liter larger.

so tell me why again that they are on par with lt1s and EARLY ls1s?? bu not the 2000,01, and 02 models.. haha you are IGNORANT i believe... i dont see a lot of stupidity just ignorance... i have beaten and ran better times than newer models ls1s... ws6s, ss's.. gtos.. corvettes.. year doesnt matter... who cares.. they came with a 4.6.. period.. so yes the ls1s is a better engine because it does make more power.. regardless of size..

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2K05GT

this would be a fair argument if both Ford and Chevy had near size engines.
but you are beating your chests like the 5.7L is such a bad as mofo yet look at the actual numbers
4.6L 3V is 281 cubic inches producing 300hp 320tq
LS1 all-aluminum 5.7 L (346 in³) pushrod engine and was rated between 305 - 350 hp and 335-375 ft·lbf of torque
thats 67ci or 1.1Liters over the 4.6 motor and thats all it made LOL..

As far as the LSx being superior, not according to Wards 10 best engines.
Fords 4.6L v8 won this award in 2005 (5th), 2006 (5th) 2005 (6th) 2008 (4th)
Fords 5.7L took 4th in 1997 (2nd) 1998 (3rd) 2000 (5th), 2001 (5th) 2002 (4th)
yet the LS1 only won in 1998 and 1999 and the LT1 and LS2 never made it on the list.

the LSx is a Large cubic inch engine making good hp, yet ford has 5.4L making nearly the same N/A hp as the new 6.0L LS3 and it's still short a few cubes

Boss 315 4-valve DOHC 5.4 L V8, 422 hp @ 6500 rpm, 406.5 lb·ft @ 4750 rpm

Then we can have a serious argument.

the arguement isnt fair because a well driven 1993!!!! lt1 can be neck and neck with a 2007!!!! mustang gt.... thats pitiful... hence the reason there is no arguement.

who cares what some magazinie says is the best engine... or the best engine for gas mileage.. or the best engine for ITS SIZE.. the best engine and would have more power than an ls1s IF it had 1 more litre... it doesnt.. period... the ls1 wins.
07-04-2008, 10:38 AM
xzaero0

Quote:

Originally Posted by N20LT4

It should have high 12's in it. Are you up to the task?

These are my mods. I don't know if I'm up to it or not. What do you think?
Ram air, cut out air box, SLP air lid, K&N, Slp underdrive pulley, Mizierre Electric water pump 180 stat, high volume fuel pump and wire, American Racing Ceramic Coated longtubes with 3" race collectors, 3" dual exhaust x pipe LM2s 2.5 over axle UMI SFCs, Torque arm and relocation bracket, STB, rear sway bar, lca and relocation brackets, Edelbrock adj panhard bar, Moser 9" 3.70 gears, Detroit True Trac, Predator, 10x15 welds/MT ET Street, LS6 Intake, P&P TB, Performabuilt 3k stall, and I think non adj Konis shocks and struts

No I dont stereotype either, I give everyone the benifit of the doubt.
07-04-2008, 10:48 AM
mogs01gt

Quote:

Originally Posted by big hammer

and stangs can actually compete with ls1 cars... on the internet.

or its just reality!:shower:
07-04-2008, 10:50 AM
Ls1_385hp_T/A

Whats up with all the fuckin mustang bitches on our forum?
07-04-2008, 10:51 AM
BLKCLOUD

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzaero0

....Detroit True Trac....

The Detriot TrueTrac is an awesome piece. TracTech (now owned by Eaton) sponsored me during the 2004 season. I ran a TrueTrac for all but the first two races, and then put one under my 550 RWHP 04 Cobra. Never a problem. Highly recommended. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ls1_385hp_T/A

Whats up with all the fuckin mustang bitches on our forum?

Howdy Noob! Another stellar example of internet humanity!

Ooops...almost stereotyped. Sorry.
07-04-2008, 11:07 AM
Ls1_385hp_T/A

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

The Detriot TrueTrac is an awesome piece. TracTech (now owned by Eaton) sponsored me during the 2004 season. I ran a TrueTrac for all but the first two races, and then put one under my 550 RWHP 04 Cobra. Never a problem. Highly recommended. :)

Howdy Noob! Another stellar example of internet humanity!

Ooops...almost stereotyped. Sorry.

Seriously what the hell are you doing on this site?

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