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guys I'm seriously confused on which power adder of these two that I want. There is a guy around here with a sts turboed t/a pushing 500hp and his exhaust sounds great.
exhaust is a big thing to me. This is kinda why I want to go the supercharger route. I'm really confused though. they offer the same power really as far as I've seen.
but which one is really the best?
There really is no "best"..............you price check, ask questions (like you did here), then find out which application best suites your needs.
Myself, I went with Vortech.
Yeah, what he said. It just depends on which set-up you prefer and how/where you want to make power. The STS kit will probably produce better torque down low and throught the middle rpm range than the S/C. However I think that an ATI D-1SC will produce more peak horsepower and top end power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tman
I think I'd rather get the low end power because I don't get too high in speeds.I really like powerful acceleration. I'd rather have both top and low end, but there is always a compromise.
Damn, this is a tough one... I like racing from a dig and I like cruising on the interstate or expressway and racing from a roll.
overall which is the most reliable and best overall performer?
If you are lowered, the STS may be a problem. If you don't plan on making alot of power it may also be a good option.
I run a Procharger. And because I have torque converter, I get into boost right away. I can also spray if I need more low end torque.
I have never drove an STS car but I have ridden in one with the same boost level as mine and I don't think they have as much pull as a Procharger. In my car for instance I have enough power to fight traction problems on my low to mid rpm range. However in the upper rpm range it pulls hard until redline in each gear. Now I have heard that some of the STS style set-ups can be rather restricted at higher hp levels. I don't know much about the system except for what I hear from people and read on the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7camaro7
There are pros and cons to any system......in the "old" days people would say that there was just too much lag from a turbo but those days have really changed.......I've ridden in a S/C car and I own a turbo car and I tell you it really depends on your setup.......the one thing with turbos is making sure you match up the A/R rating to your motor. The A/R rating of the turbo will decide how your car will respond......get a A/R that's too big for the motor and you will have lag.....get one too small and you will lose top-end horsepower......the thing with turbos is you have to really "plan" for the install.....factoring in backpressure, compression ratio.....but if you do plan for it and match up your car with the right turbo I think you'll be happy....now.....as for the STS system.....well.....I'm not too impressed with it for various reasons.......decent performance but I just dont like the air filter sitting where it does....picks up water!!! And, there have been several people that have problems with oil leaking out of it......I've talked to Rick Squires about this really in length but I think it just boils down to having the turbo back in the back of the car and getting the oil out of there quick enough via a pump.......I think they will be improving on this in the future though.......I'm a die-hard turbo guy but you live in Chattanooga and I grew up in Rhea County, just up the road from you, so I know it rains a lot there.......if you plan on keeping the car as a daily driver then I'd think about that......I'm currently working on putting twin turbos on a f-body car where the turbos are located right off the manifolds....I think it can be done but we'll see.......I just like having A/C in a car also.....:) call me a whimp...
ok...I've rambled on enough....if anyone would like a better explanation let me know and I'll try to be more detailed......
I appreciate it! I'm learning a lot!
I have to agree with Tman and the rest it really depends on many things. I will just add this for you to consider. When you are just cruising on the highway with no push the STS is almost forgotten about until you press on the throttle and hear it spool up. Most of the "problems" I think fall into that, if you did not want to mess with it why did you mess with it. I know fellows with Maggies and they have problems but love them, I know guys with Prochargers and they have problems but love them and it is the same with the STS. My biggest complaint really is the ground clearance only about 3.5" at lowest spot but I deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tman
Well IMO I see turbos as conditional power, I know that if done properly lag is not an issue with a turbo setup. But even if planned properly, if you're turning a lot of boost out of a single turbo there's just simply going to be lag, no way around it.
Here's an idea for you, I would do this with either a Procharger or an STS. Drop the compression of the engine down to around 9.0, perhaps lower if you're on the turbo setup, at this point I'd recommend twin turbos (if this is really gettin' serious) and feed 15-25 pounds of turbo boost into the engine for some serious horsepower. The STS turbo as far as I know is only offered single, so it would be inefficient and not cost effective at this point. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, vs the D-1SC and P-1SC
With a Procharger setup you can feed that much boost into your engine with much less lag than the turbo set up, also without burning nearly as deep of a hole in your pocket. Again, I'm not sure of the exact price of the STS system, but I know you can pick up a D-1SC straight from a dealer for around 6000$, capable of running 18-20 pounds of boost, a little less if you're up in the mountains like I am. That, with the right set up (probably about 3,000$ worth of engine upgrades, making it all ready for large boost) can yield you well over 100% horsepower gain. Which can mean some VERY serious numbers. (800+ hp)
And thats even if you're looking for very high numbers, with a P-1SC you can run 8-12 pounds of boost and be looking at around 65-80% increase with a new fuel pump (or auxiliary line), and new fuel injectors (10 PSI+). And thats all.
So it depends on what you want I suppose. If you want something a little bit different and unique on a T/A or Camaro, and aren't looking for too much more than 600hp, STS is a very viable answer here. But if you're looking for the easier route, that can yield any amount of horsepower you wish it to, with significantly less lag than the turbo, that will not tap into your engine's oil supply, and requires little to no upgrades to your engine for +65% gains, backed by Procharger's excellent warranty (3 years if you keep it to their specifications, correct me if it has changed) I'd have to say my recommendation goes to Procharger.
Hope my essay helped you out a little, if I'm wrong about anything here plz correct me, thanks. And gl with your setup.
The down side to running a super charger is that you have a parasitic loss that continuously puts a load on the motor. It takes HP to make HP, whereas a turbo uses exhaust gas to turn...and therefore does not put a load on the motor at all times..Also, the turbo is sort of lke nitrous in the fact that it is there when you want it...where as a s/c is there all the time. There are pluses and minuses to both systems, but for overall performance I like the turbos, and as stated above, a properly matched turbo setup should yeild very little, if not almost zero lag.
Correction, Superchargers are not there all the time. You have to be under load and the bypass valve closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forcedinductiontech
thanks! very helpfulQuote:
Originally Posted by Pyromaniacal
bypass valve?
I plan on doing some engine work which should be done by next spring or summer. heads/cam/exhaust. I have some turbo'ed friends and their rides are sick!!! one is an eclipse, FULLY BUILT! its like a 95 and its faster than the sts'ed t/a that is pushin 500hp. any how the guy with the t/a says his turbo doesn't really kick in till 3rd gear on his m6, why is this? They've damn near got me convinced into saving for a turbo, but something inside me tells me procharger d-1sc
Similar to a blow off valve but it returns the compressed air to the intake track before the blower. SOme vent it into the atmosphere also.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7camaro7
Ed, you still have a parasitic loss, just as you do with an alternator , powersteering pump and a/c compressor, because it is crank driven...(ie belt driven). It take power to spin that s/c even if its not under boost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Blown Vert
That is true. But I was talking about being in boost all the time like you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forcedinductiontech
Quote:
Also, the turbo is sort of lke nitrous in the fact that it is there when you want it...where as a s/c is there all the time.
I was meaning that it puts a load on the motor at all times. I can see I might hve sounded like I was meaning that it was under boost all the time. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Blown Vert
Gotcha... :yup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Forcedinductiontech