4.10 gear install questions

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11-29-2010, 02:38 PM
red98ss

4.10 gear install questions

a friend of mine, who has been resplining axles and doing 4x4 rear ends for over 20years "says" he can install 4.10 in my camaro.
he also said i only NEED ring and pinion NOT baring set.

there is nothing wrong with my oem rear end now. just opened it up and put $50 of oil in it a few thousand miles ago and everything looked fine.

so is this true, that i only NEED gears not shims or bearings?[/B]

thanks for the help

oh and the reason i am having him do it is because i dont have $500 for a shop to do it, and that means that i dont have money for a 12bolt. hell i was planning on reusing the liquid gold oil "after filtering it"

and going for this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT
11-29-2010, 04:13 PM
importhater81

You're going to need the install kit,which includes pinion and carrier bearings,crush sleeve,pinion seal,pinion gear and differential shims.

Anybody that has ever set up new gears in a diff knows that shims are a must,as the shims that are used with the factory gears are highly unlikely to work with a new gear to obtain proper pinion depth and backlash.
11-29-2010, 04:45 PM
red98ss

thanks import hater. thats what i needed to confirm. thats what i was thinking but i didnt want to question him yet.

does 500-600 for a shop to do it sound right?
11-29-2010, 04:51 PM
importhater81

Quote:

Originally Posted by red98ss

thanks import hater. thats what i needed to confirm. thats what i was thinking but i didnt want to question him yet.

does 500-600 for a shop to do it sound right?

Depends on what the shop's labor rate is. To install gears and set them up right is generally about a 3-5 hour job. So I'd say that price is probably in the ballpark.
11-29-2010, 05:57 PM
Cutlass

Quote:

Originally Posted by red98ss

a friend of mine, who has been resplining axles and doing 4x4 rear ends for over 20years "says" he can install 4.10 in my camaro.
he also said i only NEED ring and pinion NOT baring set.

there is nothing wrong with my oem rear end now. just opened it up and put $50 of oil in it a few thousand miles ago and everything looked fine.

so is this true, that i only NEED gears not shims or bearings?[/B]

thanks for the help

oh and the reason i am having him do it is because i dont have $500 for a shop to do it, and that means that i dont have money for a 12bolt. hell i was planning on reusing the liquid gold oil "after filtering it"

and going for this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Maybe he has a pile of shims laying around he can use. And maybe he is planning on removing and reusing the current bearings that are on your pinion gear. The side bearings will stay on the differential with just a gear swap.
11-29-2010, 06:03 PM
red98ss

i was thinking that too. what happens if he reuses the bearings?
11-29-2010, 07:15 PM
Cutlass

Nothing bad will happen if he can get them on and off without damage.
11-30-2010, 12:09 AM
c5z28

What brand of gears? I hear richmond are notorious for being noisy.
11-30-2010, 12:27 PM
rc74racer

Quote:

Originally Posted by red98ss

thanks import hater. thats what i needed to confirm. thats what i was thinking but i didnt want to question him yet.

does 500-600 for a shop to do it sound right?

I paid $600 for everything gears, install kit and installation along with speedo calibration.
11-30-2010, 01:09 PM
SMOKNSS01

I would ask to see if he has the shims and little misc. parts to do the install. I have done a couple of 7.5 ring and pinion swaps and I have quite the treasure trove of little misc. parts. He may already have all that you need and just would require the ring and pinion, with fluid of course.

Its always better to ask then to guess. :)
11-30-2010, 01:11 PM
SMOKNSS01

Quote:

Originally Posted by rc74racer

I paid $600 for everything gears, install kit and installation along with speedo calibration.

Now thats a damn good price!!!!!!

I think when I bought the 4.10s for my old 7.5 (about 4 years ago) I paid around $500 for the ring and pinion, deluxe install kit, fluid, and a girdle cover with shipping and I did all the work. Good find.
11-30-2010, 01:18 PM
rel3rd

Quote:

Originally Posted by red98ss

thanks import hater. thats what i needed to confirm. thats what i was thinking but i didnt want to question him yet.

does 500-600 for a shop to do it sound right?

If he's charging you $500-$600 for a gear swap...he's definitely not your friend. Maybe I mis-read? If so, how much does this experienced "friend" want to do the job, and will he stand behind his work, friend or not?
I could maybe understand that price for a shop to do the job, IF that price is for parts, fluids and labor, with warranty.

If it takes the person/place anywhere near 5 hours to setup a rear, then they shouldn't be doing them. I've been a professional "mechanic" for over 25 years, with the last 12 or so rebuilding drive units for industrial lift trucks, which are basically bigassed rears. More importantly, I've done probably a hundred or so gear swaps both for myself and "on the side", in my driveway, on my back (with air tools), and NORMALLY I am done in 2 hours or so.
11-30-2010, 02:46 PM
importhater81

Quote:

Originally Posted by rel3rd

If he's charging you $500-$600 for a gear swap...he's definitely not your friend. Maybe I mis-read? If so, how much does this experienced "friend" want to do the job, and will he stand behind his work, friend or not?
I could maybe understand that price for a shop to do the job, IF that price is for parts, fluids and labor, with warranty.

If it takes the person/place anywhere near 5 hours to setup a rear, then they shouldn't be doing them. I've been a professional "mechanic" for over 25 years, with the last 12 or so rebuilding drive units for industrial lift trucks, which are basically bigassed rears. More importantly, I've done probably a hundred or so gear swaps both for myself and "on the side", in my driveway, on my back (with air tools), and NORMALLY I am done in 2 hours or so.

He asked if the price the SHOP quoted him sounded about right.You being a "professional mechanic" should understand that a shop is not going to charge him how long it takes them to do the job,but what it calls for book time.

Sorry I didn't clarify that in that post,as most rear end gear swaps and overhauls pay between 3-5 hours.
11-30-2010, 02:56 PM
rel3rd

Quote:

Originally Posted by importhater81

He asked if the price the SHOP quoted him sounded about right.You being a "professional mechanic" should understand that a shop is not going to charge him how long it takes them to do the job,but what it calls for book time.

Sorry I didn't clarify that in that post,as most rear end gear swaps and overhauls pay between 3-5 hours.

I used to work flat rate, 50% labor commission so I surely know the game, lol.
FWIW, I usually charge $50 an hour for sidejobs, but even though I usually am done in 2 hours, I'm not doing a gear swap on anything for a hundred bucks. I still charge what I consider fair price ($200-$250), while giving as good if not better quality work than most local shops near me.

I guess I misread...or misunderstood what you were replying. Or mixed both of your guys answers up, or whatever.
11-30-2010, 04:17 PM
TLS_Addict

Hrm........gear set $160 (Motive), rear end kit $100, my guy to set them up $60. Looks like I really should order my gears. :)

He has built me 2 engines and my father 3 and set up a few rears for us with no issues so I trust him. He is in his 70s and builds dirt track engines as well as sets up rears for the racers.
11-30-2010, 04:50 PM
rel3rd

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLS_Addict

Hrm........gear set $160 (Motive), rear end kit $100, my guy to set them up $60. Looks like I really should order my gears. :)

He has built me 2 engines and my father 3 and set up a few rears for us with no issues so I trust him. He is in his 70s and builds dirt track engines as well as sets up rears for the racers.

Well, you can't beat that pricing. :woo:

Just to share something else with you and whomever...
No idea what your plans are for your car, but my old SS wound up being a simple "bolt-on, baby cammed and 3600 stalled" toy, and in the end, 342 gears were the best all around gear for me. Car ran 11.61@116 with 342's, 11.61@116 with 410's....sixty foots were the same as well, averaging roughly 1.59. Biggest difference between the two was gas mileage. Much worse with 410's, while still running the exact same at track...Not to mention I didn't like screaming the car through the traps like it did with the 410's. It was a no-brainer as to what gears for me to keep. Just my opinion from my experience. ;)
11-30-2010, 05:06 PM
Wesman

Quote:

Originally Posted by rel3rd

Well, you can't beat that pricing. :woo:

Just to share something else with you and whomever...
No idea what your plans are for your car, but my old SS wound up being a simple "bolt-on, baby cammed and 3600 stalled" toy, and in the end, 342 gears were the best all around gear for me. Car ran 11.61@116 with 342's, 11.61@116 with 410's....sixty foots were the same as well, averaging roughly 1.59. Biggest difference between the two was gas mileage. Much worse with 410's, while still running the exact same at track...Not to mention I didn't like screaming the car through the traps like it did with the 410's. It was a no-brainer as to what gears for me to keep. Just my opinion from my experience. ;)

I agree 100%. Car was not faster with 4.10's, it just went through the gears quicker. I just switched back to 3.42's, and I like them much better.

The bottom line is gears can give you a mechanical advantage when launching, but they cannot make your car accelerate any faster.
11-30-2010, 05:15 PM
TLS_Addict

perhaps just 3.73s than.....lol Too bad there isnt a 3.55 option!
12-03-2010, 04:27 AM
98SSLS1OWNER

I agree

I have a cam and heads SS. I changed to a 4.10 and gained nothing but more gas receipts. On the mechanical side no issues with the motive gears, they have held up very well.