Looking at trucks

**pajeff02** · 08-14-2010, 07:14 AM

It's time to replace our gas hogging '98 Dodge Durango and I would like to get something from the General. I stopped this morning and looked at an '07 Suburban, a pair of Silverado 2500 trucks (gray and white), and another truck badged the Vortec Max (maroon). The goal is to be able to pull an aluminum car trailer with the Trans Am on it. I really like the Suburban as it would also make a great people mover and has an incredible amount of space with the seats folded down.

All my other trucks have been Ford Rangers to date, so this is a huge step up for me. What should I be looking for? Would the 5.3 equipped Suburban be up to the task? It has a "tow setting", the "M30" 4 speed auto and a 3.73 rear. The Vortec Max, which I believe has a 6.2, is the newest of the group and has the fewest miles on it. I drove the Suburban and it really is a nice vehicle. Decisions, decisions...

**Knight** · 08-14-2010, 07:51 AM

Not interested in a deisel? The Duramax is a very nice. Buddy had a 2500 HD. Pulled anything without even feeling it. If all you're looking to do is haul - that'd be my choice. Otherwise I'd say go with the Suburban.

**pajeff02** · 08-14-2010, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Knight

Not interested in a deisel? The Duramax is a very nice. Buddy had a 2500 HD. Pulled anything without even feeling it. If all you're looking to do is haul - that'd be my choice. Otherwise I'd say go with the Suburban.

Diesel equals an extra $5,000 to $8,000 from everything I have looked at. Would be nice to have the power, but probably more than I really need for what I will be doing.

**Knight** · 08-14-2010, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

Diesel equals an extra $5,000 to $8,000 from everything I have looked at. Would be nice to have the power, but probably more than I really need for what I will be doing.

Wow, didn't realize they were that much more - seems like they are a bit closer in price round here. Gas mileage factors in to though depending on how much hauling you will be doing. My buddy got about 20 mpg with his if he was hauling or not - he used to haul his at the time/mine now t/a. If you're going to do a lot of car hauling with it/longer distances, it might be something worth factoring in. Otherwise, I prefer the Suburban - it's nice to have the extra interior room - even just for hauling tools and keeping stuff dry.

**konigandy6** · 08-14-2010, 11:43 AM

The Vortec Max depends on what year it is. The 6.2 was unavailable in Chevy's until the 2010 model year VMax Silverados. The previous years are simply the LQ9 Vortec 6.0.

The Burb will be a nice truck and should handle the trailer with the TA on it with little issues. Obviously gas mileage will suffer but it will get the job done. The 2500's will pull the trailer better, but you're giving up all the comforts the Burb has.

My dad actually just got rid of his 07 Burb (lease) and that thing was amazing. If it is the Displacement on Demand 5.3 engine, they do have an oil consumption problem. GM is still working on a fix. But you will have 100k mileage powertrain warranty on anything 07 and up, or vehicles that are GM certified used.

**pajeff02** · 08-14-2010, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by konigandy6

The Vortec Max depends on what year it is. The 6.2 was unavailable in Chevy's until the 2010 model year VMax Silverados. The previous years are simply the LQ9 Vortec 6.0.

The Burb will be a nice truck and should handle the trailer with the TA on it with little issues. Obviously gas mileage will suffer but it will get the job done. The 2500's will pull the trailer better, but you're giving up all the comforts the Burb has.

My dad actually just got rid of his 07 Burb (lease) and that thing was amazing. If it is the Displacement on Demand 5.3 engine, they do have an oil consumption problem. GM is still working on a fix. But you will have 100k mileage powertrain warranty on anything 07 and up, or vehicles that are GM certified used.

Great info Andy! Did not know about the oil consumption issue -- any idea if it's rings or valves? The Suburban is a GM Certified vehicle so I do get the 12 month bumper to bumper warranty from what I understand. No idea if it's DOD -- it did have a Flex Fuel badge, but around here there just is no E85 to run in it.

**konigandy6** · 08-14-2010, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

Great info Andy! Did not know about the oil consumption issue -- any idea if it's rings or valves? The Suburban is a GM Certified vehicle so I do get the 12 month bumper to bumper warranty from what I understand. No idea if it's DOD -- it did have a Flex Fuel badge, but around here there just is no E85 to run in it.

GM cert warranty is 12 months or 12k mileage, whichever occurs first.

I can almost guarantee it's a DoD motor... most all of them are. The problem lies with the DOD system. When in 4cyl mode, there is a valve that continually sprays oil on the bottom of the cylinders causing the oil control rings to stick. GM is set to release the new bulletin for the fix mid this month. Replacing pistons and rings are supposed to be the last thing we do. We have to investigate the PCV system, oil pan, valve covers, and intake before we can tear into the motor. But rest assured, you will have a year of bumper to bumper warranty, and 100k worth of powertrain.

**pajeff02** · 08-15-2010, 07:24 AM

I checked a bit on-line and there are lots of reports about '07 Suburban oil consumption issue. Some are putting it as high as a quart or more every 1,000 miles. That's not cool -- I really like this truck and it is certainly priced right at $25,500. I assume there is a service history for this vehicle in the GM records that the saleman should be able to locate on his computer... am I correct on this?

**konigandy6** · 08-15-2010, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

I checked a bit on-line and there are lots of reports about '07 Suburban oil consumption issue. Some are putting it as high as a quart or more every 1,000 miles. That's not cool -- I really like this truck and it is certainly priced right at $25,500. I assume there is a service history for this vehicle in the GM records that the saleman should be able to locate on his computer... am I correct on this?

The salesman will probably tell you no cuz he's lazy... or go get a service guy.

PM me the VIN if you have it. I'll look into it for you.

Also about the oil consumption, even if the truck is suffering from that problem, it will be addressed very soon and there will be a fix for it.

**JaycenK** · 08-15-2010, 02:20 PM

If you can find a 1500HD or a 2500 gas those had the 6.0 and the 4l80e trans and they are tough. That trans is a beast. Motor has good power too.

**pajeff02** · 08-15-2010, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by JaycenK

If you can find a 1500HD or a 2500 gas those had the 6.0 and the 4l80e trans and they are tough. That trans is a beast. Motor has good power too.

The trans code on the info I received from the dealership is "M30 4-SPD AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION". Any idea what that means in English?

**konigandy6** · 08-16-2010, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

The trans code on the info I received from the dealership is "M30 4-SPD AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION". Any idea what that means in English?

M30
Transmission Auto 4-Speed, HMD, 4L60-E, Electronic

**shady milkman** · 08-16-2010, 07:45 AM

honestly imho i would drop the extra 5-8k on a diesel ..in the long run they are much more reliable and will last you for hundreds of thousands of miles...you will make up that 5-8k easily over the life of the vehicle with repair bills.

i would stay away from the m30...do you want the same trans in our car for towing and to be reliable ?

**konigandy6** · 08-16-2010, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

honestly imho i would drop the extra 5-8k on a diesel ..in the long run they are much more reliable and will last you for hundreds of thousands of miles...you will make up that 5-8k easily over the life of the vehicle with repair bills.

i would stay away from the m30...do you want the same trans in our car for towing and to be reliable ?

The 4l60 really isn't that bad of a trans. The 07's did have an issue with the forward sprag's breaking though. Other than that, they tow great (depending on what you're towing.) I had my dad's 07 burb with a tandom axle steel trailor and 3 atv's and had no issues.

With diesels you have to take into consideration cost of maint. too. LOF's are more, fuel filters are more, fuel is more, and generally the time of repair whether it's warranty or c/p is longer than a normal gas engine takes. But you are right, they will last a lot longer and you will get better fuel economy with it. Unfortunately they don't make Burb's with a diesel anymore

**shady milkman** · 08-16-2010, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by konigandy6

The 4l60 really isn't that bad of a trans. The 07's did have an issue with the forward sprag's breaking though. Other than that, they tow great (depending on what you're towing.) I had my dad's 07 burb with a tandom axle steel trailor and 3 atv's and had no issues.

With diesels you have to take into consideration cost of maint. too. LOF's are more, fuel filters are more, fuel is more, and generally the time of repair whether it's warranty or c/p is longer than a normal gas engine takes. But you are right, they will last a lot longer and you will get better fuel economy with it. Unfortunately they don't make Burb's with a diesel anymore

^ true ..but it seems like when towing is involved..80k is about when the 4l60e needs replacing.

also true on maint. but like both of us mentioned..they last for ever..as long as they arent modded to heavily ...

**konigandy6** · 08-16-2010, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

^ true ..but it seems like when towing is involved..80k is about when the 4l60e needs replacing.

also true on maint. but like both of us mentioned..they last for ever..as long as they arent modded to heavily ...

Well we've had the sprags break on these trucks with under 20k mileage!

It all depends on how it's driven.

**JaycenK** · 08-16-2010, 02:09 PM

Cars and truck today are POS. EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM. And the cost of them... mind blowing. 50k for freakin tahoe. 29k for a 2wd truck. I gave up and bought old. Can not for the life of me see paying that much for something that is going to fall apart in 6 to 10 years. Had a brand new 2002 dodge ram Paint, trans, rear, dash, wire all fell apart or broke on that thing in the first 4 years.. 04 chevy, clear was gone buy 2007 and I take realy good care of my shit. Clear on these cars and trucks are only good for 5 to 10 years before they buble and fall off. Paint warrenties only cover rust throughs. It's retarded. Be carfull what you buy and how much you spend on it.

**pajeff02** · 08-16-2010, 02:34 PM

In my 42 years on this planet, I have purchased one (1) new vehicle. Never again. In the last 12 years or so, 90% of our cars have been wreck and rebuilds.

**konigandy6** · 08-16-2010, 02:56 PM

I would have to respectfully disagree. I think new vehicles have come full circle and are everything you can expect a new vehicle should be. I have owned a 95, two 02's, an 03, and an 04 Silverado. The 03/04 are light years ahead of the 95 in both quality and performance. If I didn't love my truck so much right now, and if I could afford it, I wouldn't think twice of buying a new one.

But regardless of our opinions, this thread is not about discussing the quality of new vehicles.

Jeff... did you make a decision yet? Are you going with the UrbanBurban?

**pajeff02** · 08-16-2010, 05:48 PM

Salesman went on vacation today... I'll be up there Wednesday and will look at it one more time. Looks like no oil consumption repairs on the info you sent and everything seemed rather minor. I was surprised at the u-joint and shock replacement at such low miles.

On the new car thing... my post had nothing to do with quality. We choose wreck and rebuilds and/or pre-owned vehicles simply due to the depreciation. It's tough to justify the price of a new car -- I looked at new just for fun and the trucks we were interested in were all running north of 35k. I think the quality has come a long way since the 80's and early 90's.