Trick Flow Heads/Cam

**David Q** · 10-22-2009, 05:54 PM

Will the heads cam package really make 515HP on a stock bottom end?

**BlackSS1** · 10-23-2009, 04:48 AM

Yes at the flywheel. One user on this site has stock exhaust manifolds and still makes 440 RWHP! The trickflow package is the bomb if you have the funds.

Yes you can install on stock bottom end... lots of LS1's with heads/cam on stock bottom end running fine. If you also spray or boost you will be wise to get a forged bottom end.

Of course, it won't be reliable as stock once you have 515 HP.

**Damian** · 10-23-2009, 07:28 AM

Trick Flow heads work great, but their cams aren't so great. If you're set of TF, get a custom grind cam to your specs. Also realize those heads require Yella Terra rockers, and an experienced LSX mechanic to install. There's more labor involved in getting the valvetrain geometry correct on that cylinder head. This is NOT something a weekend warrior can do if they do not know how to check wipe patterns, preload, pushrod length, etc...

There are other cylinder head options out there that offer similar power gains, retain the use of stock rockers, and don't require as much assembly time.

**02Sweet** · 10-23-2009, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Damian

Trick Flow heads work great, but their cams aren't so great. If you're set of TF, get a custom grind cam to your specs. Also realize those heads require Yella Terra rockers, and an experienced LSX mechanic to install. There's more labor involved in getting the valvetrain geometry correct on that cylinder head. This is NOT something a weekend warrior can do if they do not know how to check wipe patterns, preload, pushrod length, etc...

There are other cylinder head options out there that offer similar power gains, retain the use of stock rockers, and don't require as much assembly time.

What would you suggest then? What are your basis of your selections of heads? Always like to hear what others think/know

**shady milkman** · 10-23-2009, 07:52 AM

you can get afr heads..what i really like about TFs are their 13.5 valve degree..compared to a stock 15 degree...you get great numbers out of those heads.

**shady milkman** · 10-23-2009, 07:53 AM

and also dont get caught up with peak numbers either...do your research and find a combo that will give you good numbers under the curve.

**02Sweet** · 10-23-2009, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

and also dont get caught up with peak numbers either...do your research and find a combo that will give you good numbers under the curve.

I agree with you on that. A lot of people want that HIGH HP number! It just sounds good to say I have 4xx HP.

**David Q** · 10-23-2009, 08:37 AM

I really want high torque #'s. So I take it the rocker arms that come with the kit are not torque to yield, they require adjustment. I want a complete kit (rockers, springs, retainers, bolts, gaskets, etc.) what do you suggest?

**Damian** · 10-23-2009, 12:23 PM

What would you suggest then? What are your basis of your selections of heads? Always like to hear what others think/know

I build a lot of cars for people based on their budget, so budget minded heads are what I normally choose. That being said, TEA or "Total Engine Airflow" are my cylinder heads of choice if you're looking for something on a budget below 2K. They can retain the use of stock rockers, use QUALITY valvetrain components and make GREAT power for the money. http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr.../gmhead/gmls1/

Patriot Performance is another option if you're looking for the cheapest of options. Their heads are worth 25-35rwhp, and their pricing is very attractive @ $1200 for a brand new set of heads and no core charge. https://www.patriot-performance.com/...ome.php?cat=12

I really want high torque #'s. So I take it the rocker arms that come with the kit are not torque to yield, they require adjustment. I want a complete kit (rockers, springs, retainers, bolts, gaskets, etc.) what do you suggest?

Your goals are very realistic, and the goals that everyone should strive for. Power under the curve, and TQ is what gets a street car moving. Not high peak numbers.

To answer your inquiries, it's the entire combination that will determine how you achieve your goals. Camshaft choice, compression ration, tuning, etc...Cylinder heads are only part of the equation.

**02Sweet** · 10-23-2009, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Damian

To answer your inquiries, it's the entire combination that will determine how you achieve your goals. Camshaft choice, compression ration, tuning, etc...Cylinder heads are only part of the equation.

I understand what you mean that you need to have a combo so things match up properly. But shouldn't you start with the heads and build around them?

also...you mentioned TEA heads. What do you think about there ls6 stg 1.5 heads?

**gashkerwin** · 10-23-2009, 03:54 PM

I've never heard anyone say that the Trick Flow heads aren't the best heads out there. My LSx guy, who has built more than one engine that has been featured in magazines, does packages with the Trick heads, rockers, push rods, and a custom cam, full exhaust, and full intake (lid, maf, tb, intake manifold) and is getting high 400s at the wheels with tq in the high 400s as well. I've seen the build sheets and dyno sheets of more than one car he's built, and there've been no complaints.

Granted, he does get the heads milled down so that compression is raised... which is an extra 250.

If I sell my 300zx twin turbo, or my truck (both of which have irons in the fire for, so to speak) I will be finishing off my motor with the heads, FAST intake and TB, but will be going with very high street compression (I want 12.5:1 if I've got the PTV for it, still haven't crunched those numbers on my cam...) and will be switching to e85 and should be well over 500 rwhp with tq hopefully 475+.

Then again, when its all said and done, I'll have about 11K into the engine...

**Damian** · 10-25-2009, 04:55 PM

I've never heard anyone say that the Trick Flow heads aren't the best heads out there.

Was that reflected towards me? If so I never said Trick Flows weren't "the best", but that point in itself is debatable. There are companies out there like ETP and AFR that will give TF a run for their money any day. I was explaining that on a budget, there's better options out there. Especially considering Trick Flows require $400 rockers.

should be well over 500 rwhp with tq hopefully 475+.

In a 346 ci motor? Don't hold your breath fella...

**gashkerwin** · 10-25-2009, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Damian

In a 346 ci motor? Don't hold your breath fella...

I've seen the dyno sheets of cars with basically the same setup I'll have getting 490/460 and that is with only 11:1 compression running normal fuel. I see no problem going 500+/475 with >12:1 compression on E85...

**KP1** · 11-11-2009, 03:05 AM

I have a bit of difficulty with an NA 347 with a single throttle body making that much power to the wheels with 11:1 scr.

Now, if you disconnect the drive belts, remove the air filter, and crack a nitrous bottle in the intake air flow on a happy dyno, sure.

**shady milkman** · 11-11-2009, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by gashkerwin

I've seen the dyno sheets of cars with basically the same setup I'll have getting 490/460 and that is with only 11:1 compression running normal fuel. I see no problem going 500+/475 with >12:1 compression on E85...

Originally Posted by KP1

I have a bit of difficulty with an NA 347 with a single throttle body making that much power to the wheels with 11:1 scr.

Now, if you disconnect the drive belts, remove the air filter, and crack a nitrous bottle in the intake air flow on a happy dyno, sure.

notice he said with 12:1 on E85 ...

**KP1** · 11-11-2009, 05:33 AM

Thanks. Still a bit of a stretch I think.

I've seen some out of the norm posts where people claim near 500 with 347 NA.

Doesn't matter really. The proof is in how it moves down the track and how it traps compared to gross weight.

**shady milkman** · 11-11-2009, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by KP1

Thanks. Still a bit of a stretch I think.

I've seen some out of the norm posts where people claim near 500 with 347 NA.

Doesn't matter really. The proof is in how it moves down the track and how it traps compared to gross weight.

^ this is true.....dyno numbers are good for impressing high school girls ...ETs are good for impressing everyone in the know

**5abivt** · 11-11-2009, 03:04 PM

Sometimes impressing high school girls is worth it

**mcamp001** · 11-15-2009, 05:06 AM

I agree high 400's is pushing it a bit from a NA 347, I can't believe it would be very drivable under normal conditions. My specs are:

347
TF 215's milled for 11:4 to 1
comp 230/230/.591 113+2
comp R's
diamond forged -2cc pistons
stock crank - polished
stock rods - polished
underdrive pulley - crank

numbers were 454rwhp, and 430 rwt on a dynojet, with a somewhat conservative tune. I maybe could get a few more numbers, but not too much