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LS1/LS6 rebuild ballpark...

This is a discussion on LS1/LS6 rebuild ballpark... within the Internal Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; That works. Someday I will build up an engine for our car....

  1. #21
    Super Moderator pajeff02's Avatar
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    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    That works. Someday I will build up an engine for our car.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    I should be getting the first estimate any day now. I am getting somewhat nervous because I looked at new Mustangs and Camaros, and I determined that both have even less back seat and trunk space, than i have now. I hope I don't get priced into oblivion!
    SLP Air Lid/Smooth Bellows
    Kooks Emissions LT Headers/Catted Y pipe
    NGK TR55 plugs
    Magnaflow Cat-back
    Spohn Front Upper Tubular Control Arms
    UMI Front Lower Tubular Control Arms
    UMI Front Sway Bar
    UMI Rear Lower Control Arms/ Adjustable Panhard Rod
    UMI Welded-on Two Piece Subframe Connectors
    Factory C5 Z06 17x9.5 wheels w/ 285-40-17 Continental Extreme Contact DW's all the way around.
    Dyno Dynamics dynoed @:
    356 rwhp, 360 rwlb/tq

  3. #23
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    Quote Originally Posted by Whamhammer View Post
    I should be getting the first estimate any day now. I am getting somewhat nervous because I looked at new Mustangs and Camaros, and I determined that both have even less back seat and trunk space, than i have now. I hope I don't get priced into oblivion!
    So I got my first ballpark. Targeting 400-425 RWHP, not a full rebuild, but working off the idea that the engines bottom end may be fine, around $8,500, centered around a Trick Flow Head and Cam 485 BHP set (list was $3,700.00). They suggest upgrading the LS6 intake that the car has (wasn’t in the price). About 25 hours labor. I am thinking the tuning is included.

    If the bearings need replacing or the bore is scuffed up, that is additional. They were saying most peppy LS rebuilds are about 10k.

    Any comments? (Yes, I already know... 7 5/8 kaboom!)

    I am thinking that the Trick Flow set is a bit pricey. The car has 219k miles, vast majority are highway, with synthetic oil changes every 3-4k miles.

    Realistic? Not so?

  4. #24
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    LS1/LS6 rebuild ballpark...

    damn I'm so glad I built mine myself......

    l would confirm that's parts, labor, turning, fluids etc....

    Any limited warranty?
    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f7/my-6-liter-build-174257/

    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f8/my-8-8-rear-build-165553/

    6.0L Block - Forged 403 built, breaking it in , Polluter Stg3 Cam, FAST 102mm Intake, NW102 TB, MSD wires, NGK TR6 plugs, Truck Coil Packs, LS3 Fuel Injectors, CC Pacesetter LT Headers, TS&P ORY, QTP e-Cutout, Magnaflow Muffler, 104mm Air Lid & Line Lock, Catch Can, Stage 2 T56 w/Viper shaft, PRO 5.0 Shifter, Tick MC, SPEC Stg3+ Clutch, QT SFI BH, MWC DSL, UMI: Sway Bars, SFC, PHB, LCA's, LCA Relocation Brackets & TA, Belstein Shocks, Hotchkis Springs (1" Drop), YR1 Snowflake Wheels wrapped in NT555 tires & Custom Fab Ford 8.8 rear w/4.10 Yukon Gears, WSQ Hood, 3"CM Strange Eng Drive Shaft.

    00 FB Vert - Stock

    Horsepower never lies, but is often lied about!

  5. #25
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    damn I'm so glad I built mine myself......

    l would confirm that's parts, labor, turning, fluids etc....

    Any limited warranty?
    I hear you, those are certainly questions I intend to confirm. Orignally, they wanted to push me towards a GM LS3 crate and adapter harness for about 11k. That kind of sticker shocked me, not sure if its the best answer.

    I am thinking of seeing what a dedicated machine shop might charge for a rebuild with performance upgrades.

  6. #26
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    LS1/LS6 rebuild ballpark...

    who you get a quote from?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    who you get a quote from?
    A local high performance shop, they pretty much do everything. The they do regular car maintenance but specialize with high performance applications and custom built race cars (like ones that aren't based off of road cars).

    They have internal machining facilities but I don’t think it has the volume of a dedicated machine shop.

    My thought is that while a “rebuild” is labor intensive; would a bottom end rebuild, with a performance head/cam/tune be almost as expensive as buying a LS3 525 GM Crate motor, presuming that the block/crank/sleeves are still workable?

    I know the Trick Flow set is a bit pricey, even though it comes with the gasket set, rockers, pushrods is it really giving the performance value that a lower priced head/cam option and supporting galvetrain and gasketing isnt?
    Last edited by Whamhammer; 02-25-2021 at 05:56 AM.

  8. #28
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Some other things to ask/consider...


    All that is if they don't find anything with the crank and pistons correct?

    Who's ordering the parts?

    I ask because a shop will always mark up the parts some. Usually 25% and that is after shipping.


    Will the shop do the work if you provide the parts like heads, cam, bearings, gaskets kit, etc?

    This is an area where you could shave some money in possibly getting a package deal from Tick and TS&P, sometimes Summit.



    I think I'll make you cry when I list my parts (Understand this was in 2013-14.

    K1 Forged Crank $950
    DSS Forged Pistons $400
    SCAT Forged Rods $350
    ARP 2000 Rod Bolts $180
    Polluter Stg3 Cam $380
    King Main Bearings $99
    243 Used Heads $500
    King Rod Bearings $80
    LS7 Lifters $100
    LS2 Timing Chain $45
    Compcams Pushrods $150
    Gaskets, ARP bolts and other seals $ 300

    LQ4 Block $250 - Hydrolocked, so it worked in my favor


    Machine shop costs for bore cyl to 4.005", assemble heads, and blueprint parts (check specs of rods, cam, heads, crank etc) $400.


    Now Trick flow heads will add quite a bit to my costs. But at the moment I'm not in a place I can start doing Phase II of my engine build.

  9. #29
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Also forgot a Melling 10296 Oil Pump $130

  10. #30
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Some other things to ask/consider...


    All that is if they don't find anything with the crank and pistons correct?

    Who's ordering the parts?

    I ask because a shop will always mark up the parts some. Usually 25% and that is after shipping.


    Will the shop do the work if you provide the parts like heads, cam, bearings, gaskets kit, etc?

    This is an area where you could shave some money in possibly getting a package deal from Tick and TS&P, sometimes Summit.



    I think I'll make you cry when I list my parts (Understand this was in 2013-14.

    K1 Forged Crank $950
    DSS Forged Pistons $400
    SCAT Forged Rods $350
    ARP 2000 Rod Bolts $180
    Polluter Stg3 Cam $380
    King Main Bearings $99
    243 Used Heads $500
    King Rod Bearings $80
    LS7 Lifters $100
    LS2 Timing Chain $45
    Compcams Pushrods $150
    Gaskets, ARP bolts and other seals $ 300

    LQ4 Block $250 - Hydrolocked, so it worked in my favor


    Machine shop costs for bore cyl to 4.005", assemble heads, and blueprint parts (check specs of rods, cam, heads, crank etc) $400.


    Now Trick flow heads will add quite a bit to my costs. But at the moment I'm not in a place I can start doing Phase II of my engine build.
    Correct, that is if they find that the crank/bearings and pistons/sleeves are good.

    I know in the past that they have wanted to order the parts, I really havent breached that issue with them on this; the price that I put together was a combination of their labor hours against their labor rate and the retail price of the part from the website they linked. I threw an extra couple of hundred dollars to cover incidentals.

    My mind is still somewhat blown at the ballpark, and I know that the price wont likely come down.

    The engine runs fine (at least in my opinion), I would figure that if there was something that needed a new crank or bore work, I would have some signs of it, with the way the engine would run, am I right?

    Back, ten or so years ago, I was in a better position to figure fair and reasonable.

    This is the best time for me to get the work done, and they are willing to go step by step with me, first doing the oil leak of all the gaskets and seals, and determining the condition of everything, but 8-ish K is alot for not having it totally rebuilt, even with a 420 RWHP build; at least thats what my sticker shock is telling me.

    Im thinking a good set of well machiner 243s might do as well, for about a grand less?

    Just feel caught in the headlights.

  11. #31
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    LS1/LS6 rebuild ballpark...

    it can be overwhelming. IMHO in these times ppl have been raising their prices so they can survive across the board.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    This is what they are suggesting for the build (and of course a FAST intake).

    https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-k306-485-460

  13. #33
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whamhammer View Post
    This is what they are suggesting for the build (and of course a FAST intake).

    https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-k306-485-460
    Nice kit

  14. #34
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Nice kit
    Would you go with that kit over working a set of 243’s?

    I know the 525hp LS3 conversion that they want to do must cost at least 13k, I think thats nuts.

    I just wish that I could get my hands on a legit LS2 bottom end for a reasonable price. I still will need to get a beefier rear end, and various other fun things.
    Last edited by Whamhammer; 04-11-2021 at 08:06 PM.

  15. #35
    I like turtles GTP231's Avatar
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    I think the trick flows will do better for the money vs buying a set of 243s and having them ported
    83 Thunderturd even bigger turd probably LQ4 4L80 swap at some point
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    the guys here know how to find a nekkid chick farting into a cake but 2+2 stumps the shit out of 'em.
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    Says the king of mockery and shit talking

  16. #36
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    I have a set of 243's on my 403 and I'm leaving a shit ton of HP off. My tuner said it's at least 75 to 100 hp. Sooo....


    If you can find a 99-04 LQ4 or 9 you will have the iron block of a LS2. IMHO better than a LS2 because they handle more. If you found a LQ4 it's a piston change to flat top to raise the CR. Now if you had boost plans leave the dish pistons for lower CR than will benefit you for boosted applications.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    I have a set of 243's on my 403 and I'm leaving a shit ton of HP off. My tuner said it's at least 75 to 100 hp. Sooo....


    If you can find a 99-04 LQ4 or 9 you will have the iron block of a LS2. IMHO better than a LS2 because they handle more. If you found a LQ4 it's a piston change to flat top to raise the CR. Now if you had boost plans leave the dish pistons for lower CR than will benefit you for boosted applications.
    Based on what he's looking to make I don't see a point in the added weight not that he's having much luck finding an LS2.

  18. #38
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Weight penalty isn't that much.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    '02 Trans Am WS-6, 6M

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Weight penalty isn't that much.
    Everyone that I heard from is saying 80-100 pounds more with an iron block, that's about a three percent increase in overall weight but its all on the nose. I have tubular upper and lower arms on the front but I was hoping to keep the weight distribution more balanced, and the car lighter.

    What sucks is that I even emailed ATK Performance Engines, about a LS2 short block, they didn't even mail me back, totally blew me off.

    I'm fine with the Trick Flows if they are worth it, almost sounds like they would make up the difference in displacement if I went with a re-use of the LS1 (actually LS6) block vs an iron block 6.0 with OEM heads.

    My goal is 425 RWHP and a healthy torque curve. Gracie was dynoed making 356 RWHP and 360 Ft/Lbs RWTQ, so I am pretty much needing to go up another 70-75 RWHP.

  20. #40
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    You can easily hit that power number with the LS6 block

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