Lingenfelter Installed Engine Package

[Whamhammer]

Hi all,

I stumbled onto this installed engine package for LS1 F-bodies. For someone who doesn't have the time/experience to do the work, is this a reasonable value?

350 CID LS1 | Lingenfelter Performance Engineering


350 CID LS1


420 BHP/400 lbs-ft of torque

Package includes:

- Engine removal, inspection and disassembly
- Lingenfelter CNC porting and polishing of cylinder heads
- Lingenfelter double valve springs, titanium retainers, locks & seals
- 2.02" / 1.57" Stainless steel intake/exhaust valves
- Three angle valve job, correct setting of spring tensions
- Lingenfelter GT11 hydraulic roller camshaft
- Professional installation, testing and tuning
- Ported and polished LS1 throttle body
- Port matched OE intake manifold
- Corsa stainless steel cat back exhaust
- Whisper low restriction air filter housing and K&N air filter
- Chassis dyno testing before and after installation
- Professional installation, testing and pcm tuning
- Lingenfelter 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty

- Excellent drivability, highway mileage not adversely affected
- Lingenfelter certificate of authenticity

1998-2002 Camaro/Firebird
Package Price $9,995.00

Normal installation time required: 4 weeks with prior notification.

Items on this page are not legal for sale or use on California pollution controlled motor vehicles unless they are listed with an E.O. number.

Includes automatic transmission shift improvements. Some applications may benefit from a higher stall torque converter. 99-00 models will require fuel injectors. Please ask your salesperson for details and prices.

[2002ssslp]

That's about 5k over what I would pay for this type of work. What are you really getting here. A cat back exhaust, a camshaft, rebuilt heads and some porting and tuning work. Sorry but this is not for me. Look at the results, 420bhp. Pretty easy to do without pulling the engine. I would spend 6k on a blower system and put the other 4k in the bank. More HP and bigger savings account numbers for your next project. JMO

[Whamhammer]

That's about 5k over what I would pay for this type of work. What are you really getting here. A cat back exhaust, a camshaft, rebuilt heads and some porting and tuning work. Sorry but this is not for me. Look at the results, 420bhp. Pretty easy to do without pulling the engine. I would spend 6k on a blower system and put the other 4k in the bank. More HP and bigger savings account numbers for your next project. JMO

I was under the impression that they were doing a bottom end rebuild with this, am I misreading that? I also got the impression that the 420 hp at the wheels. I dont have the ability to do the work myself and I dont know who I can really take it to for a good price and have a good warranty like a 3 yr 36k .

[kingls1]

Don't look like they do anything but inspection of the bottom end, seems to just be heads and port work and cam as Keith said. Also No mention of new timing chain or oil pump upgread to go along with cam. I would also check if their bottom end inspection yields something they don't like would a bottom end rebuild add to the price before it would be warranted! Seems to me your price is reflective of name and warranty than overall work being completed....JMO.
You are in Maryland and I would think with a little research and help from members you could find a reputable speed shop near or in a surrounding state from you that could put on a set of heads and cam get you where you want.

[2002ssslp]

I was under the impression that they were doing a bottom end rebuild with this, am I misreading that? I also got the impression that the 420 hp at the wheels. I dont have the ability to do the work myself and I dont know who I can really take it to for a good price and have a good warranty like a 3 yr 36k .

I went over the list again and did not find anything to indicate any bottom end work. 420 rwhp is about 500 at the crank. A decent supercharger kit will get you above that number without any additional work. And you'll save some money (about 4k) in the process.

[2002ssslp]

Don't look like they do anything but inspection of the bottom end, seems to just be heads and port work and cam as Keith said. Also No mention of new timing chain or oil pump upgread to go along with cam. I would also check if their bottom end inspection yields something they don't like would a bottom end rebuild add to the price before it would be warranted! Seems to me your price is reflective of name and warranty than overall work being completed....JMO.
You are in Maryland and I would think with a little research and help from members you could find a reputable speed shop near or in a surrounding state from you that could put on a set of heads and cam get you where you want.

Ditto

[Whamhammer]

Don't look like they do anything but inspection of the bottom end, seems to just be heads and port work and cam as Keith said. Also No mention of new timing chain or oil pump upgread to go along with cam. I would also check if their bottom end inspection yields something they don't like would a bottom end rebuild add to the price before it would be warranted! Seems to me your price is reflective of name and warranty than overall work being completed....JMO.
You are in Maryland and I would think with a little research and help from members you could find a reputable speed shop near or in a surrounding state from you that could put on a set of heads and cam get you where you want.

Yeah, I would rather go the normally aspirated way. I figured heads/cam and refresh the bottom end (123k miles) and some exhaust work that the shop will back is what I am looking for. I've tried to get into the the east coast/mid-Atlantic forums, but couldn't get in.

[2002ssslp]

Yeah, I would rather go the normally aspirated way. I figured heads/cam and refresh the bottom end (123k miles) and some exhaust work that the shop will back is what I am looking for. I've tried to get into the the east coast/mid-Atlantic forums, but couldn't get in.

Just remember that the "Fresh bottom end" you are talking about is going to cost you about an additional 5k or so. Is it worth 15,000 dollars for a 420rwhp LS1 engine with a fancy sticker under the hood ? 15k can do a lot of good for your car overall. I would really think about it before writing that check. I feel you can buy a complete, low mileage car for that price or put a solid down payment on a brand new SS.

[Firebirdjones]

For something like this, it's one of those deals where you'll just have to call and find out EXACTLY what the work entails.

Personally, if there is no bottom end rebuild on a 123,000 mile engine, then there is NO WAY I'd warranty that sucker for 3 years or 36,000 miles after bolting on all that HP on a used short block.

It may or may not last, depending on how someone takes care of things, but that sure is a big gamble to take and could likely come back to bite Lingenfelter in the A$$

Which is why I tend to lean toward the assumption that the price might include a bottom end refresh. I would call them and confirm though before I went down this road.

It could be a situation where they do a full blown inspection, leak down tests to check ring seals, bore gauges to check roundness on cylinders and the rod big ends as well as the mains. Mic the crank etc.... just to see if a rebuild is needed. This type of tedious work can add up paying the typical $90 to $100 an hour shop rates, so that could explain the overall price as well.

[Firebirdjones]

To add, as much as I enjoy the feel of power adders, I'm not a huge fan of tossing one on a 123,000 mile engine.

When these cars were new, it was nothing to put a simple procharger setup on them, with a safe tune and bone stock parts, and make ~450-500 rwhp.

Nowadays you're talking about a 15+ year old car with 6 figure mileage. That's a gamble on reliability in my opinion and I wouldn't be willing to take that chance.

If the engine is sound as is....I'd consider a mild cam upgrade, maybe cylinder heads if you want to dig that deep, and spend the rest of the money upgrading the trans and rear. If a total engine build is needed, frankly I'd be looking at 6.0 stroker short blocks from Texas Speed that are in the $4-$5,000 range with forged parts.

[Whamhammer]

To add, as much as I enjoy the feel of power adders, I'm not a huge fan of tossing one on a 123,000 mile engine.

When these cars were new, it was nothing to put a simple procharger setup on them, with a safe tune and bone stock parts, and make ~450-500 rwhp.

Nowadays you're talking about a 15+ year old car with 6 figure mileage. That's a gamble on reliability in my opinion and I wouldn't be willing to take that chance.

If the engine is sound as is....I'd consider a mild cam upgrade, maybe cylinder heads if you want to dig that deep, and spend the rest of the money upgrading the trans and rear. If a total engine build is needed, frankly I'd be looking at 6.0 stroker short blocks from Texas Speed that are in the $4-$5,000 range with forged parts.

TO be honest, I wouldn't have put a supercharger on the stock build either way, the compression is too high on an LS1. I would want it to hover, at the maximum 9:1 for a supercharger.

I am not against a bottom end rebuild at all, what looked attractive to me about the Lingenfelter was that it seemed like it was doing a rebuild. I also figured that it would be egg in their face to set up a 4 week wait time and charge a person $10k to tell the buyer that they need $5k in extra parts and service after the teardown, that would be bad customer service. Honestly, for that price, it probably wouldn't be out of the question for a rebuilt/remanned short block to be priced into that, if they have a good price break from GM or a re-builder. But if it is $10k for the listed stuff and just a teardown and no rebuild, then yes, it is just paying for a sticker and not worth it.

I would love to get a 6 liter. I know that you don't mind the iron blocks, but I really do want to stick with aluminum. I have looked at Texas Speeds offerings, like the one below. I would still have to buy heads for a short block, as the 241's should probably not be ideal for the 4.00+ bore. To tell the truth, I have no idea what kind of power they put out. I have eyed this one, but really don't know what I am getting, except for what seems to be hot rodded 243 castings and a chose your own camshaft (not a wizard at that yet):

https://www.texas-speed.com/p-167-ts...ong-block.aspx

[35th-ANV-SS]

. TO be honest, I wouldn't have put a supercharger on the stock build either way, the compression is too high on an LS1. I would want it to hover, at the maximum 9:1 for a supercharger.

Just curious where you get your 9:1 maximum compression for a supercharger number from? Several different factors come into play with compression and boost.

I've been running my setup for 3 years now without a hiccup on stock compression, as are probably thousands (literally) of others.

[Whamhammer]

Just curious where you get your 9:1 maximum compression for a supercharger number from? Several different factors come into play with compression and boost.

I've been running my setup for 3 years now without a hiccup on stock compression, as are probably thousands (literally) of others.

Just to be clear, I have no interest in this being a FI vs NA or Low Compression / high boost vs high compression low boost derailment.

I "got" my maximum 9:1 ratio from personal preference. The more compression an engine has before it is FI'd, the more accurate and and stronger the build needs to be because of the overall compression of a boosted engine. There is just less room for error and variables. I won't be doing most the diagnostics and work on the engine, at least until I get a house with a garage and a second car, and it makes more sense to me o keep the car NA while someone else will be working on it. I never said an official threshold is 9:1. I said, and I quote:

"TO be honest, I wouldn't have put a supercharger on the stock build either way, the compression is too high on an LS1. I would want it to hover, at the maximum( add comma for clarification,) 9:1 for a supercharger."

That's a personal preference, not an engineering specification.

[35th-ANV-SS]

I know exactly what you wrote....I quoted it....but you sound like you're an expert so good luck.

[Whamhammer]

Just remember that the "Fresh bottom end" you are talking about is going to cost you about an additional 5k or so. Is it worth 15,000 dollars for a 420rwhp LS1 engine with a fancy sticker under the hood ? 15k can do a lot of good for your car overall. I would really think about it before writing that check. I feel you can buy a complete, low mileage car for that price or put a solid down payment on a brand new SS.

I agree with what you are saying, thats why I brought it up in the forums to see if anyone else read it differently or even had Lingenfelter do this sort of work for them. At $10k, just head work and the extra stuff is not a good value to me, if that included a refreshened bottom end that might have been a different story. I am now, of course, looking for new options to improve/update to TA, still involving a NA build.

While I think the new Camaro is a great car, its not the value proposition I am looking for. I do prefer to looks of my car and its paid for and fairly light. I can't get past the weight of the 5th gen', and for me to get close to what I want from it, I would be approaching a $40k price tag. The new Mustang gives me the similar misgivings.

I am looking to make my move over the summer, by that time, the 6th gen info should be pretty much set in stone. If Chevy can knock it out of the park for me, then I may be dancing to a different tune, but it will be hard for me to switch out of my TA without the new car being an insane value for me.

[kingls1]

Is your motor giving you problems? What mods have you done? I have 124,000 on my 99 and my motor runs strong and is at the point that suspension mods are top on the list to use the power that I have and not worry about breaking stuff. You already should have the better Heads(243) and intake(LS 6) as you show a 02 ws6 so a short block and have your heads sent out would save. IMO I would be working on House, Garage, etc. first as what is the fun of owning fast cars if you can't make them fast yourself...

[Whamhammer]

Is your motor giving you problems? What mods have you done? I have 124,000 on my 99 and my motor runs strong and is at the point that suspension mods are top on the list to use the power that I have and not worry about breaking stuff. You already should have the better Heads(243) and intake(LS 6) as you show a 02 ws6 so a short block and have your heads sent out would save. IMO I would be working on House, Garage, etc. first as what is the fun of owning fast cars if you can't make them fast yourself...

Right now, the only mods that the car has is an SLP airlid and throttle body below. Suspension stuff is on the list and will most likely completed in the spring. I do have a WS6, and have an LS6 intake, but I have 241 heads, which are standard on this model. I haven't done any leak down or compression tests but I think its in great shape. It should be, with my over the top 3k mile synthetic oil changes and frequent fluid changes. It may be a waste of money in some peoples minds but its peace of mind to me.

As far as the house, we own a town house right now and stepping up to a house with a garage typically runs $100-150k more than the value of our house, in our area. It will be a while before we are ready to make that
move.

[Whamhammer]

Is your motor giving you problems? What mods have you done? I have 124,000 on my 99 and my motor runs strong and is at the point that suspension mods are top on the list to use the power that I have and not worry about breaking stuff. You already should have the better Heads(243) and intake(LS 6) as you show a 02 ws6 so a short block and have your heads sent out would save. IMO I would be working on House, Garage, etc. first as what is the fun of owning fast cars if you can't make them fast yourself...

I forgot to answer your first question. The engine really isnt giving me any problems, I just want to improve the power to be able to take on the newer models, preferably hit the low 12's or high 11's (I figure that I am not the best stick driver for ET's so enough power to do high 11's will allow my driving to get into the low 12's, dont want a rollcage.) At worst , maximize what power I can without breaking the bank.

Thinking of that, are they forcing factory stock sub 12 second cars to have a rollcage to go to the strip?

[35th-ANV-SS]

If the car is running 11.49 or quicker, it would be required to have a minimum of a 5-pt roll bar. A roll cage would be for cars running quicker than 10.0 seconds; 9.99 or faster....or over 135mph.

No sure who you mean by "they", but if you mean the drag strip police, yes. Unless you're racing at some ma & pa strip that doesn't enforce rules.

[Naaman]

I was under the impression that they were doing a bottom end rebuild with this, am I misreading that? I also got the impression that the 420 hp at the wheels. I dont have the ability to do the work myself and I dont know who I can really take it to for a good price and have a good warranty like a 3 yr 36k .

I didn't see anyone else mention this, so incase this influences the decision, the copy/past from Lingenfelter says "420 BHP." That stands for "brake horsepower," which is horsepower measured at the crank/flywheel, NOT at the wheels. So, if we want to know wheel horsepower, it would probably be around 355-365 or so, assuming a 15% loss.