Best bang for the buck cylinder head?

**5abivt** · 02-15-2010, 07:10 PM

Looking at 243 assembled heads for around600. Saw dart 205 assembled heads for 700 ish. What other options do I have ? Have to lol into Ai and le for porter ls1 prices. Considering heads and cam if I keep the Z I'll be going semi aggressive cam longtubes hellwithemissions into a corsa exhaust.

**KING Z28 HAWK** · 02-16-2010, 11:53 AM

Where did you find assembled Dart 205's for 700? Im sure there are the better choice. Correct me if im wrong guys.

**Marc 85Z28** · 02-17-2010, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by 5abivt

Saw dart 205 assembled heads for 700 ish.

If there is nothing wrong with those heads, get them! Just keep in mind they're one of the worst, if not THE worst performing aftermarket head, but still have lots of potential in the right hands.

**mark21742** · 02-19-2010, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28

If there is nothing wrong with those heads, get them! Just keep in mind they're one of the worst, if not THE worst performing aftermarket head, but still have lots of potential in the right hands.

And this is why I've seen them advertised, but never heard anything about them or anyone running them? (This is a serious question, not sarcasum)

**azfrc** · 02-19-2010, 10:25 AM

I found this a while ago:

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ads/index.html

The darts didn't do so well in the shoot out.

**mark21742** · 02-19-2010, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by azfrc

I found this a while ago:

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ads/index.html

The darts didn't do so well in the shoot out.

Thanks! Good read

So your better off with ported stock heads over the Darts...that's not a good investment lol

**0rion** · 02-19-2010, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by azfrc

I found this a while ago:

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ads/index.html

The darts didn't do so well in the shoot out.

I have no experience with dart heads but I notice they're also comparing them to heads that cost way more. They're budget heads....how many more HP are you getting for the $800 difference in price? That's what you have learn to live with when doing budget heads. You have to be willing to sacrifice the HP for the dollar. I didn't go over all the numbers with a fine tooth comb but just looking at peak (which doesn't really tell the whole story) it looks to me like the Dart's held their own really.
I'd like to see a budget shootout which I'm sure they've done but I've never seen. Patriot, PRC, dart, and home ported 243's.

**Marc 85Z28** · 02-20-2010, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by 0rion

I have no experience with dart heads but I notice they're also comparing them to heads that cost way more. They're budget heads....how many more HP are you getting for the $800 difference in price? That's what you have learn to live with when doing budget heads. You have to be willing to sacrifice the HP for the dollar. I didn't go over all the numbers with a fine tooth comb but just looking at peak (which doesn't really tell the whole story) it looks to me like the Dart's held their own really.
I'd like to see a budget shootout which I'm sure they've done but I've never seen. Patriot, PRC, dart, and home ported 243's.

Held their own? I don't know what you were looking at, but those Dart 205s are not much better than a stock set of 243 heads.

Unless you are willing to spend another $1000-$1500 to make the Darts work, they're a waste of money. But for $700 initial cost? That's still a deal!

**0rion** · 02-20-2010, 04:41 AM

205's?? I just see the 225's

AFR
* Peak Horsepower 547.1 @ 6,400 rpm
* Peak Torque 479.5 @ 5,500

Dart
* Peak Horsepower 532.5 @ 6,700 rpm
* Peak Torque 478.4 @ 5,200 rpm

taken straight from that article
"On the engine dyno, the Dart heads stayed right with the other competitors--that is, until they reached 5,500 rpm and the torque went away. Still, a little port work could easily solve that. The horsepower is right there, flat and broad from 4,500 rpm until past the engine's peak at 6,700 rpm. The Dart heads have a lot of potential, and this study only hints at what they offer the end user. All things considered, a Dart-headed LS2 would be hard to distinguish from the other castings."

**azfrc** · 02-20-2010, 10:08 AM

I should have looked at that article closer. I only looked at flow numbers. The dart heads didn't do so bad afterall, but also keep in mind those are 225cc intakes. That article shows flow isn't everything, so for the money the darts really are a good deal for $700 a pair, but I've never seen them for $700 a set. The best I've seen was about $1600 a set.

**Firebirdjones** · 02-20-2010, 10:47 AM

Intake CC is one critical aspect that needs attention when comparing heads, as well as valve angles.

Notice the Trick Flows used a 13.5 degree angle which gives a nice advantage over the others that all used 15 degree. Yet they were marginally better than the AFR's with their smallish 205cc intake runners and 15 degree valve angles. That says alot about the AFR's.
If you ask me the AFR's really shined in this test considering the small intake runner size.
I run AFR's on a BBC and can't say too many bad things about them. (just make sure they install the correct valve springs

)

On the same token I run a set of Dart 200cc heads on a gen 1 406 small block currently. Dart makes a decent Gen 1 cylinder head but it seems they jumped on the LS bandwagon a bit late compared to some other head manufactures.

**garygnu65** · 02-20-2010, 04:42 PM

TSP sells LS6 heads cnc ported,stock valves or bigger valves.$1000-$1400.patriot sells a cnc #243 head for $1300.

**Firebirdjones** · 02-21-2010, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by garygnu65

TSP sells LS6 heads cnc ported,stock valves or bigger valves.$1000-$1400..

Where did you see that?? The only $1,000 heads I see from them are the 5.3 versions which have smaller intake runners than the LS6's. They peak flow at 312 cfm after cnc porting.

To jump up to LS6 heads from TSP requires $2,100 But you get a little more flow.

It's a matter of how much HP you are willing to sacrafice verses money spent.

**Firebirdjones** · 02-21-2010, 04:55 PM

I did fish around some more on there. It does appear they offer LS6 castings nearly stock for that money, along with a camshaft package that doesn't look bad price wise.

**robznob11** · 02-21-2010, 05:56 PM

I know you 5.7 guys cant run l92 heads but they sell them with vet springs ready to go for 899.00 pair they also offer all other gm heads mild to wild im sure they can hook you up with a set of modded 243's alot cheaper than what you all are talking

**garygnu65** · 02-21-2010, 06:10 PM

stage 1 ls6 heads for $1025,cnc ported.they need better springs .stage 2 ls6 head for $1425 ,cnc ported.they use stock guides ,no need for roller rockers.

**Firebirdjones** · 02-22-2010, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by robznob11

I know you 5.7 guys cant run l92 heads but they sell them with vet springs ready to go for 899.00 pair they also offer all other gm heads mild to wild im sure they can hook you up with a set of modded 243's alot cheaper than what you all are talking

I wouldn't want a head like L92's on a little motor like a 5.7 anyway. Extremely too much intake port volume. Would make for a very soggy and rpm peaky motor. GM high tech even proved that on a 6.0 (364 ci). Was very soft in the torque department and didn't come alive until over 5,000 rpm.
I honestly wouldn't even use those on anything less than 400 cubes naturally aspirated.

**mark21742** · 02-22-2010, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I wouldn't want a head like L92's on a little motor like a 5.7 anyway. Extremely too much intake port volume. Would make for a very soggy and rpm peaky motor. GM high tech even proved that on a 6.0 (364 ci). Was very soft in the torque department and didn't come alive until over 5,000 rpm.
I honestly wouldn't even use those on anything less than 400 cubes naturally aspirated.

How about a 404 stroker with an Edelbrock proflo xt?

**Firebirdjones** · 02-22-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by mark21742

How about a 404 stroker with an Edelbrock proflo xt?

Probably work nice. Enough cubes there to take advantage of the larger heads.
Smaller engines just don't need intake runners that large to fill cylinders. Unless you like 4.88 gears and 7,500 rpm shift points.

**mark21742** · 02-22-2010, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Probably work nice. Enough cubes there to take advantage of the larger heads.
Smaller engines just don't need intake runners that large to fill cylinders. Unless you like 4.88 gears and 7,500 rpm shift points.

I'm still runningg my oringinal 241s ported and milled for now, but I'm saving and reading reading reading to make a good choice when the time comes to buy heads.