Help with Trans service

**j nix** · 09-23-2010, 05:56 AM

I am going to do a trans service on my t/a. Are there any tips for a smooth job, any body can offer?

**'02 WS6** · 09-23-2010, 06:02 AM

There are tons of opinions on this topic. Are you flushing it? Most stray from that and just do a fluid and filter change. Lots of reported failures after flushes on both 4L60s and even 4L80s...hell even T56s.

**j nix** · 09-23-2010, 06:05 AM

I am not sure which mine is, 4L60 or 4L80. I wasn't going to flush it, should I?

**'02 WS6** · 09-23-2010, 06:23 AM

Yours is a 4L60 and I'm one of the ones in the "don't flush category" but to each his own.

**j nix** · 09-23-2010, 06:26 AM

I will probably be in that category too.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-23-2010, 07:48 AM

I have always just dropped the pan and changed filter and refill for 30 years without a complaint. I do it so often (every 10-15,000 miles) on all my cars that I've never found it necessary to do a complete flush. Fluid stays clean and smells fresh.

I could see a flush possibly if you let it go for 60-80 or even 100,000 miles. Quite frankly, it should have been changed much sooner, and at that point if a flush caused a trans failure, I'd blame it more on the lack of maintainance to begin with. Also a flush won't remove all the packed on clutch material (aka: sludge) from the bottom of the trans pan. I've found the pan needs to be physically wiped clean (I use a parts washer) to remove the sludge. A simple flush won't do it, and you need to change the filter anyway.
Since I change my trans fluid so regularly, I rarely ever find any sludge in the pan anymore. So a complete flush just isn't needed in my case.

Alot of the new cars now, some fords and cadillacs, don't even have a fill tube for fluid, in which case a trip to a shop with the flushing equipment is just about your only option, since the trannys have fittings now for a machine to hook up to rather than a fill tube. Seems to be the direction these new cars are going.

**j nix** · 09-23-2010, 10:42 AM

Great info. I think I am going to just clean the pan, new gasket, filter and fluid. Do you have an A4 or an M6?

**Firebirdjones** · 09-23-2010, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by j nix

Great info. I think I am going to just clean the pan, new gasket, filter and fluid. Do you have an A4 or an M6?

Both.

**j nix** · 09-23-2010, 05:07 PM

What 2 cars?

**Firebirdjones** · 09-23-2010, 07:09 PM

I assumed you meant the 4th gens, I have one auto and one 6 speed. I have various other cars with various different trannies that I also treat the same way however.

**j nix** · 09-23-2010, 07:13 PM

I have a 2002 WS.6, A4. I really wanted a manual transmission for more control of the trans, but I got the car for a steal. In your opinion, since you have both, should I convert to a manual or is it not worth the money and headache. My car is not a DD and I don't know if it will ever make it to a track, but I like to street race.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-23-2010, 07:35 PM

Well, you'll have your diehard 6 speed guys, and I'll admit, I've always been a muncie 4 speed guy playing with classic cars for more than 30 years, and even running UMTR for a few years, so I can appreciate rowing your own.

However when it comes to these 4th gens, it really doesn't matter to me either way. I like the 6 speeds for the mileage they offer on the open road, but that's about as far as it goes for me. I find they have just as many weaknesses as the 4L60E does.
T56 has a puny output shaft that does snap on occasion, the sincros, keys, forks, are all somewhat cheaply made, and prematurely wear and/or break. The clutch system sucks to put it lightly, the hydraulics aren't that great and need aftermarket upgrades, the clutch itself is weak and also needs improvement. Once built correctly and gone through with good parts they can be a very sturdy trans though.

The 4L60E also has it's share of problems. Weak sun shell that is usually the first thing to go. They too can also be built to withstand HP.

Honestly, coming from a guy that has both, once you put a converter in that auto I don't think you'll ever regret your decision. Converters are the ticket for these cars. Mine is actually the auto, my wife drives the 6 speed. Even on the street if I had to pick one to be in for a grudge match,,,,I'd want to be in my auto hands down. With a 3400 stall there is just hardly a comparison between the two.

Enjoy your choice and have fun with it.

**j nix** · 09-23-2010, 08:17 PM

What is the difficulty on installing a stall convertor. Is it something that a Skilled but beginner could accomplish? And do I have to make other upgrades after I install it?

**Firebirdjones** · 09-23-2010, 08:35 PM

Probably not something I'd tell a first timer he could do, but it's really not all that bad. Pulling the tranny (of course) can be a bit intimidating for some people. Especially if you are doing it off jack stands and laying on your back. In which case it's more than likely at least a 2 man job.
With a lift and a tranny jack it's a one man job and relatively easy.

A tranny cooler will be needed to deal with the extra heat a looser converter will generate. And usually a tune is needed, the misfire detection has to be desensitized, and possibly play with shift points as well.
Probably a good idea to wait until you have a few other things done and a tune is in your future, then throw a converter in at that time.

**j nix** · 09-23-2010, 09:12 PM

Yeah, I hear ya. I think after my fluid services, I am going to take care of my SFC's, suspension and then evaluate my next move.

**Smittro** · 09-23-2010, 09:16 PM

Had my auto flushed and reprogrammed (about a year prior) 3-4 years ago @ 60k over 90k now never any trouble.. Fluid level is key with the 4l60e..

**j nix** · 09-23-2010, 09:33 PM

Why do you need to reprogram?

**Smittro** · 09-23-2010, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by j nix

Why do you need to reprogram?

You don't,, I had it done durring a reutine servicing for firmer shifts..

**Firebirdjones** · 09-24-2010, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by j nix

Why do you need to reprogram?

Because in some instances there has been issues with shift points after a converter has been installed, either bumping the rev limiter or what have you. Some of that has been hit or miss, and I assume it depends on the brand and/or how much stall the converter is built with.

I didn't have to touch up my shift points after the stall, but I did have to decensitize the engine missfire codes. The computer thinks the trans is slipping and puts the engine in limpmode. Most everyone I know of that did a stall had to have that changed in the tune at the very least.

**j nix** · 09-29-2010, 04:31 PM

I changed the fluid, filter and gasket in the trans pan, cleaned the pan real good and think it went pretty good. I let it run for 10 minutes, checked the fluid and added about another quart. Level is good. I took it for a test run and it was slipping like it was before the trans service. I took out the Diablo Tune and put the saved factory tune back in. I took it for another test drive. I could tell the shifting stiffness and some power was lost, but it didn't slip even close to as much. So I am thinking either the Diablo tune was making it slip or it was slipping less because the more I drove it, the fluid was getting to the gears. Has anybody had this happen to them and what advice do you have? Thanks