Problems w/coated Pacesetters...

**1badassZ** · 03-01-2007, 07:17 AM

Might as well post it here to..

Anyone ever have a problem with the coated race style Pacesetters rubbing a hole in the oil filter? Bought them new and they've been on the car for about a week.

Called Pacesetter and the guy I talked to told me to get a smaller oil filter than stock?

That was his only resolution.

He also mentioned something about the motor mounts.

Since when do the motor mounts have anything to do with how close the collector is to the oil filter?

I asked him how this could be resolved and he told me that I would have to send the header back to them and they would put it in the jig to see if there were any problems. If they found something they would send me a replacement. I said cool, what's the address. He says, I'm not giving it to you until you send me proof of purchase..

Sending him proof of purchase isn't a problem I just don't understand why he was being such an ass...

/rant

**1badassZ** · 03-01-2007, 07:19 AM

...

Ok.. Here's some visual evidence that something isn't right with the header.. I was wrong about it being the collector, it's actually one of the primaries...

**9t8z28** · 03-01-2007, 08:07 AM

That sucks. It has nothing to do with the motor mounts. The header is bent or it was made wrong.

**1badassZ** · 03-01-2007, 11:35 AM

I've been corresponding with the "Service Manager"

Here's his latest:

Steve thanks for the pictures, do you have a picture showing the actual hole in the filter?

I will need to check a header here in the fixture to make sure everything checks out, we currently have pieces out being coated so it will be approximate 5-7 days before I have one to check.

Also you said the engine was just rebuilt? What type of oil pump was used?

He seems to have picked up where he left off yesterday.. Trying to find something wrong with the car..

**9t8z28** · 03-01-2007, 12:09 PM

Theres a pin hole in the filter and oil burned all over the header. What more does he need to see.

**Midnight02** · 03-02-2007, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by 9t8z28

Theres a pin hole in the filter and oil burned all over the header. What more does he need to see.

That's a good question! With the pictures you have above, I would think it's time for the guy to quit trying to find something at fault with the car and start working to make this situation right.

**nhraformula** · 03-02-2007, 04:59 AM

must be the headers.

**Sarge** · 03-02-2007, 05:11 AM

1. Stop using Fram filters.
2. Those headers are not to spec. They are made wrong.
3. If the guy does not man up and replace them with a pair that fits. An alternative is a remote filter mount. You may want to think about it anyway as having 1200 degree headers cooking your oil filter and superheating your oil is probably not where you want to be anyway. The remote setup is cheap/easy and gives you a little more oil in your sump and has a cooling effect. All good things.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...0002_745570_-1

Lastly. I damn near lost the GTO last year when I blew the engine and oil hit the headers. Oil on hot headers makes for a really nice fire. Shit burns very quick and very hot. Carry a fire exstinguisher.

**1badassZ** · 03-02-2007, 07:37 AM

Well, day 3 on this dilemma and I still haven't received a, "Oh, we're sorry this happened. Go ahead and send us the header and will get you fixed up with a replacement."

Really, sucks because it’s my daily so I can’t afford to wait 7-10 business days for Pacesetters to get a header back from coating and test fit it into the jig. Then if they "discover" something is wrong with their template, it will take another 7-10 business days for them to receive my header, and yet another 7-10 business days to send me a new one.

What’s test fitting a different header in their jig going to show anyways? If the header they test with isn’t mine, then it will probably not have the defect.

**1badassZ** · 03-02-2007, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

1. Stop using Fram filters.
2. Those headers are not to spec. They are made wrong.
3. If the guy does not man up and replace them with a pair that fits. An alternative is a remote filter mount. You may want to think about it anyway as having 1200 degree headers cooking your oil filter and superheating your oil is probably not where you want to be anyway. The remote setup is cheap/easy and gives you a little more oil in your sump and has a cooling effect. All good things.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...0002_745570_-1

Lastly. I damn near lost the GTO last year when I blew the engine and oil hit the headers. Oil on hot headers makes for a really nice fire. Shit burns very quick and very hot. Carry a fire exstinguisher.

Great idea.. Do you know if that's the right part for an LS1?

**Firebirdjones** · 03-02-2007, 12:35 PM

Wow, those pics tell it all. Even if the pipe didn't touch the filter,,,it's still way too close to the filter in my opinion,,,, creates a ton of heat. I would rather see those pipes redesigned slightly to create a little more room for the filter,,if there is room to do that.
Sorry to hear it though, hopefully it gets resolved.
On a brighter not,,,thanks for the pics of the Fram filter,,,it looks like the long style,,,which my local parts store was unable to cross over from the A/C PF61 style for some reason,,,he kept coming out with the shorty. That part number helps me a ton. Thanks. Larry.

**yellowv** · 03-02-2007, 01:10 PM

That really sucks. With something like that they should just send you a new one out and let you send that one back afterwards. Those pics CLEARLY show a problem which obviously is not caused by anything on the car. That header was jigged wrong when it was welded.

**Sarge** · 03-02-2007, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by 1badassZ

Great idea.. Do you know if that's the right part for an LS1?

Yup. Keep those headers and use the oil filter relocator...problem solved and you get a much better filter location anyway. Use Frams again on that LS1 and I'll kill you.
Get a Baldwin B31 and go like hell

http://www.baldwin-filters.com/catalog.asp
Get a case of em for like $4.95 each. Flows and filters better than Amsoil or KN for half the price. Do it and do it now. Fill that sump up with Shaeffers 10-30 and your engine will sound and run better than you ever imagined.

**9t8z28** · 03-02-2007, 02:04 PM

For all of you that don't have this issue:
Do you all think that there is an issue of how close the header is to the filter in terms of the heat that gets put apon it?

**9t8z28** · 03-02-2007, 02:06 PM

You should send a link of this thread to the dealer. I am sure Pacesetter and the dealer wants to keep a good reputation of this product.

**Firebirdjones** · 03-02-2007, 02:46 PM

Well an issue with heat could be a problem,,,probably nothing you would notice with a street car but there is a little something about filters I have found out,,,and heat is one cause of this problem I am going to mention.
Owning 11 cars up until recently, I am now down to 7 cars so you can imagine I change my oil alot. My intervals are every 2,000 miles as well. I have had a habit of cutting my filters apart for years, just for curiousity sake, especially if I suspect an engine problem. I have used many filters over the years, including wix, A/C, stp, fram, and a few others. I can tell you from my experience all those filters listed and then some weren't worth a hoot except the fram.
When I cut the other filters apart, I was shocked to find the filter element only held against the case by a simple rubber o-ring. What I found was this o-ring was shrinking, due to heat and oil, and allowing the filter element inside to rattle around inside the case. When this happens it simply not filtering anymore. Oil is getting bypassed around the element at this point. I have changed some of my oil as soon as 1,000 miles and already found the elements rattling around inside the case. Keep this in mind for those that like to extend there oil changes.
The only filter I have cut apart that has never had this loose element problem is the FRAM. Simply because Fram doesn't use the cheap ass o-ring to hold the element still. They use a steel bevel,,it doesn't shrink, bend or move,,,keeping the element still and filtering the oil as it should.
For this simple reason alone,,,I stick with Fram. Any filters that use o-rings to hold the element still are junk in my book.
Keep in mind there are a couple of filters I have not cut apart,,,including K&N,,,and there may be some that I have cut apart in the past that have now changed their design since. But because Fram has always had this design and continues with it,,,I stick with Fram.
There may be better filters out there by now, I am not saying Fram is the best. Just make sure what ever you buy, the element is held still with a steel bevel. Larry.

**1badassZ** · 03-02-2007, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by 9t8z28

You should send a link of this thread to the dealer. I am sure Pacesetter and the dealer wants to keep a good reputation of this product.

Sent it to the dealer today...

**9t8z28** · 03-03-2007, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Well an issue with heat could be a problem,,,probably nothing you would notice with a street car but there is a little something about filters I have found out,,,and heat is one cause of this problem I am going to mention.
Owning 11 cars up until recently, I am now down to 7 cars so you can imagine I change my oil alot. My intervals are every 2,000 miles as well. I have had a habit of cutting my filters apart for years, just for curiousity sake, especially if I suspect an engine problem. I have used many filters over the years, including wix, A/C, stp, fram, and a few others. I can tell you from my experience all those filters listed and then some weren't worth a hoot except the fram.
When I cut the other filters apart, I was shocked to find the filter element only held against the case by a simple rubber o-ring. What I found was this o-ring was shrinking, due to heat and oil, and allowing the filter element inside to rattle around inside the case. When this happens it simply not filtering anymore. Oil is getting bypassed around the element at this point. I have changed some of my oil as soon as 1,000 miles and already found the elements rattling around inside the case. Keep this in mind for those that like to extend there oil changes.
The only filter I have cut apart that has never had this loose element problem is the FRAM. Simply because Fram doesn't use the cheap ass o-ring to hold the element still. They use a steel bevel,,it doesn't shrink, bend or move,,,keeping the element still and filtering the oil as it should.
For this simple reason alone,,,I stick with Fram. Any filters that use o-rings to hold the element still are junk in my book.
Keep in mind there are a couple of filters I have not cut apart,,,including K&N,,,and there may be some that I have cut apart in the past that have now changed their design since. But because Fram has always had this design and continues with it,,,I stick with Fram.
There may be better filters out there by now, I am not saying Fram is the best. Just make sure what ever you buy, the element is held still with a steel bevel. Larry.

Good INFO!!!!!!! Thank goodness, FRAM is all that I use.

**Firebirdjones** · 03-03-2007, 10:41 AM

Glad it helps, and there may be others out there that don't use the forbidden o-ring to hold the element still,,,I just haven't run accross any yet.
Mobile filters and K&N are among the 2 I haven't cut apart. But for the price they charge for some of these filters you would think the inside would be of good quality.
Some say the filter element is better, filtering down to smaller microns etc...and that might be what you are paying for,,,,but it's not worth a damn if it's held still with the o-ring, because once it shrinks and the element starts moving around it no longer filters anyway.
Fram is the cheapest priced filter I have found to date that uses a steel bevel to hold the element still,,,and they are generally $5 or less.
I wouldn't mind spending more for a great filter with better filter capability,,so long as it doesn't use an 0-ring inside.
I may experiement with a few more filters cutting them apart as well, just to see how they are made inside. Larry.

**Sarge** · 03-03-2007, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Well an issue with heat could be a problem,,,probably nothing you would notice with a street car but there is a little something about filters I have found out,,,and heat is one cause of this problem I am going to mention.
Owning 11 cars up until recently, I am now down to 7 cars so you can imagine I change my oil alot. My intervals are every 2,000 miles as well. I have had a habit of cutting my filters apart for years, just for curiousity sake, especially if I suspect an engine problem. I have used many filters over the years, including wix, A/C, stp, fram, and a few others. I can tell you from my experience all those filters listed and then some weren't worth a hoot except the fram.
When I cut the other filters apart, I was shocked to find the filter element only held against the case by a simple rubber o-ring. What I found was this o-ring was shrinking, due to heat and oil, and allowing the filter element inside to rattle around inside the case. When this happens it simply not filtering anymore. Oil is getting bypassed around the element at this point. I have changed some of my oil as soon as 1,000 miles and already found the elements rattling around inside the case. Keep this in mind for those that like to extend there oil changes.
The only filter I have cut apart that has never had this loose element problem is the FRAM. Simply because Fram doesn't use the cheap ass o-ring to hold the element still. They use a steel bevel,,it doesn't shrink, bend or move,,,keeping the element still and filtering the oil as it should.
For this simple reason alone,,,I stick with Fram. Any filters that use o-rings to hold the element still are junk in my book.
Keep in mind there are a couple of filters I have not cut apart,,,including K&N,,,and there may be some that I have cut apart in the past that have now changed their design since. But because Fram has always had this design and continues with it,,,I stick with Fram.
There may be better filters out there by now, I am not saying Fram is the best. Just make sure what ever you buy, the element is held still with a steel bevel. Larry.

Larry. What in the hell are you talking about? I have never ever seen what you are talking about here. I cut open every filter I use also. Fram utilizes cardboard and plastic ADBV. The filters you mention DO NOT have any O-ring holding the media together. Just disinformation at its finest.