K&N or Fram filter drop in

**karpetcm** · 01-23-2009, 07:02 AM

Well i just sold my K&N filter from my 01 Z28 and put in a fram paper filter. Ive heard many guys on here talk about all the dirt that goes into the motor and messing up the MAF so that was my main reason for the change. I was at Kragen Auto Parts store yesterday and saw a demonstration which isnt new what so ever. They put a hallow ball in a tube and have fans come on with a switch with the paper filter as one example and the K&N filter as the other. Well when the K&N was on there it was a major improvement in air flow but hardly with the fram and these were squared filters like we use for our cars with the lid. Is it really restrict that much air by not using K&N and going to a paper filter?

**km346** · 01-23-2009, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by karpetcm

Well i just sold my K&N filter from my 01 Z28 and put in a fram paper filter. Ive heard many guys on here talk about all the dirt that goes into the motor and messing up the MAF so that was my main reason for the change. I was at Kragen Auto Parts store yesterday and saw a demonstration which isnt new what so ever. They put a hallow ball in a tube and have fans come on with a switch with the paper filter as one example and the K&N filter as the other. Well when the K&N was on there it was a major improvement in air flow but hardly with the fram and these were squared filters like we use for our cars with the lid. Is it really restrict that much air by not using K&N and going to a paper filter?

A K&N definitely flows more air then a paper filter. I think the main reason people don't like to run them is that they don't filter as well as a paper filter, and sometimes if over oiled you can have MAF problems. I personally have them on every vehicle i own, including a k1500 that ive put over 100,000 miles on without a problem.

**karpetcm** · 01-23-2009, 07:28 AM

Ive heard a few people say they have gained nothing on the dyno nor track times buy using paper, no paper or K&N filter and seems strange to me since it flows soo much better then a paper filter. Is it because the motor pulls soo much CFM at WOT that the paper filter doesnt become restrictive and flow just as well, i know at lower CFM it will more then likely not low as well like the K&N but at WOT when the motor sucks up alot more air the paper filter isnt going to be as restrictive, i dont know just throwing something out there i still think it should flow even better at WOT meaning the K&N but i just dont know. I dont know if i should just go back to another K&N, the ridges on the K&N got damaged so cant sell or use but is it worth buying another one or should i stick to a paper filter.

**km346** · 01-23-2009, 07:44 AM

Amsoil, Fram Air hog, and Holley all make a filter similair to the K&N. Ive been wanting to try the Amsoil one for a while now, but i cant justify spending the money because theres nothing wrong with my K&N's. Ive read a lot of things on them also saying that the flow difference is negligible... and its just letting more dirt in without any performance. But think about it, we spend all sorts of money trying to free up the air that goes into and out of our motors to try and get more power out of them. Why not run a free flowing filter just for piece of mind?

Also i replaced the filter on my GSXR with a K&N and i could definitely feel a SOTP difference under the curve. trust me sport bikes aren't known for there low end. Feeling that was all i needed to prove they flow more.

**karpetcm** · 01-23-2009, 07:54 AM

Ill more then likely buy another one, but this time ill try amsoil and see what happens or maybe just buy another K&N. I havent driven my car for 3 weeks now, waiting on parts and tune so hopefully my car will stop pinging and i can start driving it again. The only time i had problems with K&N was on my 01 SS, i went to palmdale LACR and doing some runs there, the car went bad after a couple of runs. Couldnt idle and pinged bad, took it to the dealer and they told me DO NOT use K&N it ruined your MAF and we had to replace it and your lucky we did it for you under warranty. I think all they did is just clean it and give it back to me, lol. Either way ive had good experiences with K&N other then that one time and i usually after buying a K&N clean it up a little to get rid of some of the oil.

**Lutzfire24** · 01-23-2009, 08:13 AM

I put one in my wifes 2004 4runner right before our 1400+ mile trip, gain 2 1/2-3 miles per gal. just by changing to a k&n from oem filter. Never saw the trip computer go over 18-19 miles per gallon before but it stayed on 22-23 the whole trip.

**Firebirdjones** · 01-23-2009, 08:36 AM

I agree on alot of things with KN346. I've had K&N filters on everything since the mid 80's when the craze hit.
I've never had an MAF problem on the newer cars. I think thats more of a result of someone over-oiling the filter or maybe putting oil on the wrong side.
Just as part of regular maintainance anyway, I always clean my MAF with the MAF solvent you can buy in any parts store. I do this when I clean and oil the K&N filter, maybe every 30,000 miles or so. Never had a problem.

I like the Amsoil idea and the fact that they are a dry filter and all. Just wash and go. My problem is they don't make alot of applications for some of my older hotrods that have oddball size filters in them. K&N does however remarkably enough. So I just stick with K&N. It's also much easier to run up to any decent parts store and grab one off the shelf since most applications are in stock. Last one I bought for my wifes most recent LS1 4th gen was at my local Napa store.
Maybe when Amsoil starts making more applications for the older stuff I would look closer into making the switch. But after more than 20 years of faithfull service from K&N I'm not jumping outta my seat for something new at the moment, besides switching 9 cars over to another brand is somewhat of an expensive propostion

**rel3rd** · 01-27-2009, 02:40 PM

I run Fram Airhogs on all 4 of my vehicles.

2000 Camaro SS (11 second NA weekend toy)
2002 Chevrolet Silverado (Driven in dusty and dirty steel mill everyday)
2003 Lincoln Aviator (4.6 liter 32 valve V8, stock except for AirHog)
1991 Mustang LX 5.0 (beater)

Never a problem with overly dirty engine oil or maf problems...ever.
I used to run K&N's on everything in the past, but these are a bit cheaper.

**sunsetorangess** · 01-27-2009, 02:49 PM

K&N is garbage, Your not going to see huge gains with a K&n filter. They flow about the same as paper, but cause more issues than there worth. Some people have great luck. Iv been working on cars for a while now and i cant even count how many throttle bodys, and maf's i have cleaned due to cars and trucks running like poo, the oil gets everywhere and throws sensors through a loop. My most recent was a Chevy colorado, was throwing a low idle code, took the throttle body off, cleaned it and replaced the K&n filter with a fram and it has been working fine for weeks.
J

**Firebirdjones** · 01-27-2009, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by sunsetorangess

K&N is garbage, Your not going to see huge gains with a K&n filter. They flow about the same as paper, but cause more issues than there worth. Some people have great luck. Iv been working on cars for a while now and i cant even count how many throttle bodys, and maf's i have cleaned due to cars and trucks running like poo, the oil gets everywhere and throws sensors through a loop. My most recent was a Chevy colorado, was throwing a low idle code, took the throttle body off, cleaned it and replaced the K&n filter with a fram and it has been working fine for weeks.
J

I've used K&N's for more than 20 years without any of these issues. Willing to bet thats just people over oiling or putting the oil on the wrong side.

It's really hard to base an opinion on a filter from other peoples cars coming in that you are working on, who knows who's hands have been in there tinkering with it. So speaking for those cars is hit or miss, With so many variables to consider,,,I don't believe thats the filters fault at all. I can only tell you that from my own experience that when cleaned and oiled properly there will be no issues.

As far as the statement of K&N flowing about the same as paper,,,well um,,you don't have to look far to come up with some facts on that.

**thearborbarber** · 01-27-2009, 05:58 PM

I'm 1-1-1 with K&N filters. I had an S10 blaser that it helped alot, My 2500HD dropped 1.5mpg (when you only get 13.5 to begin with it's easy to see), and my 99 camaro showed no gains in mileage/1/4 mile performance. Didn't go up or down. I run wix filters all the way around now. oil/gas/air in all my vehicles.

**bene** · 01-27-2009, 07:57 PM

I've used K&Ns before and switched to FRAM air filter. Didn't see any difference between the two except I know that the paper filter will filter the dirt more than K&N.

**sunsetorangess** · 01-28-2009, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I've used K&N's for more than 20 years without any of these issues. Willing to bet thats just people over oiling or putting the oil on the wrong side.

It's really hard to base an opinion on a filter from other peoples cars coming in that you are working on, who knows who's hands have been in there tinkering with it. So speaking for those cars is hit or miss, With so many variables to consider,,,I don't believe thats the filters fault at all. I can only tell you that from my own experience that when cleaned and oiled properly there will be no issues.

As far as the statement of K&N flowing about the same as paper,,,well um,,you don't have to look far to come up with some facts on that.

Lol Like i said its my opinion, iv been Racing cars for some time and have had plenty of high Hp cars and you wont find a K&N in any of them, iv had more dyno time than most can imagine, both with and without filters and brands. Take it for what its worth, If you havent had any issues than keep doing what your doing..
J

**Danger731** · 01-28-2009, 03:04 AM

I have had a Holley power shot in mt Z since 40K, now at 120k, no issues. Just clean n re oil

**Firebirdjones** · 01-28-2009, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Danger731

I have had a Holley power shot in mt Z since 40K, now at 120k, no issues. Just clean n re oil

Yep those work in the same fassion just a different color of oil.

I have the power shot in my 02 SS and it was blue but when the time came to clean and oil, I just used the red K&N oil because it's already on the shelf.
So it's a red holley now, haha.

**Firebirdjones** · 01-28-2009, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by sunsetorangess

Lol Like i said its my opinion, iv been Racing cars for some time and have had plenty of high Hp cars and you wont find a K&N in any of them, iv had more dyno time than most can imagine, both with and without filters and brands. Take it for what its worth, If you havent had any issues than keep doing what your doing..
J

Ya I've been on the same road for 30 years. Fact is though you won't see much of anything on a dyno.
A chassis dyno doesn't have much moving air other than a big fan. But you usually see something with the switch. Track times are more real world.
The engine dyno that I use 99% of the time simply uses a hat on the carb that brings in fresh outside air, no filter used so comparison isn't there.

But Hp isn't the reason I use them, it's more of a convenience for me to just be able to clean and reapply oil. When you have 9 cars in the stable it's a real pain to go out and try to find replacement paper air filters all the time, especially when some of the cars take a special order filter that none of the stores have in stock most of the time.

**c4rcorvette** · 02-23-2009, 08:35 PM

Im not sure if any one remembers this but a few years back one of the big car magazins did a flow and dyno test on the many diff. air filters out there. To put things into perspective a stock fram air filter 2 inch tall by 14 inches around flowed more than 3000 cfm. the k&n filter was just a couple hundred cfm above that. I can bet that not a one of you guys is using anywhere near that much air, unless you have a top fuel dragster running in the 6s. The diff. on the dyno between the fram, k&n, and the blue one(cant remember the name) was only 1 to 1.5 hp They did say however that after a couple thousand miles the k&n and the blue one flowed a little better than the fram due to the porosity of the k&n and blue one. I have seen personally what happens if you over oil them too. My friends gto started having all kinds of maf oriented problems. hope this helps a bit.

**c4rcorvette** · 02-23-2009, 08:40 PM

holly... that was the blue one...lol

Also got to keep in mind the stock frams are throw away filters. The aftermarket are reusable.

**JoshieDoom** · 02-24-2009, 01:46 AM

Switched back to a stocker.

Only product I will use is their oil filter with is damn nice.

After first tuning up my car almost 35kish ago, and less than 2 years...(fuck) I have found twigs, grass and other debris on my maf screen. I do not like anything on my maf either. Stocker FTW.. or amsoil?

**mark21742** · 02-24-2009, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by km346

Also i replaced the filter on my GSXR with a K&N and i could definitely feel a SOTP difference under the curve. trust me sport bikes aren't known for there low end. Feeling that was all i needed to prove they flow more.

honestly on my GSXR after the motor and carb work I got the best results from 2 layers of curtain sheers over each carb held on with hose clamps.......dynoed out at 128hp.....not bad for a 96 750