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Thread: Header and Y pipe help
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04-14-2007, 09:40 AM #1
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White- 2000 Trans Am Ws6
Header and Y pipe help
Hey after recently seizing up my engine im having it rebuilt and it should have a bit more of a kick than the stock engine, i was looking into upgrading the exaught manifold to headers. Is this necessary or will the stock manifolds be fine? The engine should be making around 420-450hp at the crank.. Also do you need to get a Y pipe when you get headers? Can you get just a Y pipe with the stock manifolds and what advantages does the Y pipe give? All in all im just looking for suggestions on any header and y pipe setup, if any.
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04-14-2007, 12:19 PM #2
To answer your intial question. If you get shorty headers, you can use the stock y-pipe. But if you get mid or longtube headers, you will need a new y-pipe. Longtubes free up the most power and if that's what you're going for, I suggest going that route. Shorties are regarded as worthless by most.
As far as y-pipes, they usually provide more low-end torque than top-end power. This is evident with the difference in true-dual setups as opposed to y-pipe setups. Both are good and effective, ones not really better than the other.
Now, why did the engine seize up in the first place? Because you need to determine that before you rebuild the engine, or else it could happen again. And what engine, your LS1?
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04-14-2007, 01:50 PM #3
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black- 2000 nhra edition formula
with long tubes you need a y pipe.
2000 nhra edition formula
a few bolt ons, 379 rwhp
11.96 @113.25
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04-14-2007, 02:01 PM #4
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04-14-2007, 10:48 PM #5
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White- 2000 Trans Am Ws6
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04-15-2007, 10:53 AM #6
I second that. I'd go duals now, and add headers later.
Comparing the cost of a y-pipe with a catback to a true duals kit, there is not a huge cost difference. The duals will sound and perform better.
The most restrictive part of our exhaust systems is the flat, restrictive factory y-pipe. You have to change it out when adding headers, which actually inflates the power gains seen from most header installs. With that said, headers will definitely make more power than the stock manifolds, and are a great performance improvement. You just won't notice them as much as you would a good duals setup.
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04-15-2007, 11:09 AM #7
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04-15-2007, 11:28 AM #8
Put it this way...Y pipe = garbage. Its not about restriction as much as its about flow, sound, and efficiency. You can use a 4" Y-pipe and have virtually no restriction, but its still a much less than optimal design.
How does it make any sense, from a performance and sound perspective, to take two banks of cylinders, run them into one big pipe, and then split it off again into 2 tailpipes at the back?? Its just totally pointless.
I wish there were more aftermarket dual exhaust systems available for LS1s, they really aren't that hard to produce. You just run 2 smaller pipes in the same location as the larger stock Y-pipe. It seems like everyone just all too willing to settle for different variations of Y-pipe systems though. The only real dual system that is widely available is the Bassani, and its quite expensive.
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04-15-2007, 11:39 AM #9
Y-pipes are hands down more restrictive than duals. The smooshed factory y-pipe is more restrictive than a good aftermarket mandrel bent one. Most people tend not to modify their factory y-pipe when installing headers, because the aftermarket y-pipes are better.
My point is that the y-pipe change yields power (regardless of exactly how much). Most people tend to stack that power gain from the y-pipe onto the header gain. Therefore actual headers gains are typically less than 'advertised'. Headers and a y-pipe will not yield as much power as less restrictive true duals will.
My suggestion was true duals over catback and y, then headers later, not that y-pipes really matter.
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04-15-2007, 04:26 PM #10
Why would you get a true-dual system first, then headers? That makes no sense, you would have to create another true-dual system again to fit the headers from the stock manifolds.
And y-pipe aren't that bad like some of you make them out to be. Some guys are running 700-800hp street cars with a y-pipe setup.
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04-15-2007, 04:32 PM #11
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04-15-2007, 04:35 PM #12
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04-15-2007, 04:37 PM #13
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04-15-2007, 05:02 PM #14
I'd go true duals first, because they'd be the best bang for the buck. Not everyone puts headers on their ride. IF headers were added later, it is not hard to refit the existing pipework to the headers. After my Bassani duals, I decided to add headers. Cost me $25 at the exhaust shop to adapt them.
It is a fact that Y-pipes make less power than duals. Can you get power from a y-pipe setup? Yes, more than the stock setup, but LESS than duals.
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04-15-2007, 05:04 PM #15
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04-15-2007, 05:15 PM #16
I agreed with that statement until I priced it all out and talked to a few people. I paid $779 shipped for my Bassani kit. A y-pipe and catback would have cost me about $600 or better. I considered under axle duals that were going to cost me $300 with mufflers, but decided on the Bassani duals in the end. Here's the thead that changed my mind http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28815&page=2 . As you can see, the Bassani picked up 15rwhp over the y-pipe and catback. The Bassani also made more power than cutouts in this test http://www.stealthram.com/bassanidualexhaust.htm . It was worth the extra $180 for 15rwhp more, to me anyway.
The guy that talked me into the Bassanis in that thread is running low 11s with stock manifolds and the Bassani duals. I ordered my Bassanis figuring if they worked for him, they'd work for me (stock manifolds) and keep me from having to order o2 extensions and retune the computer for headers. After installing them, I decided to get some Pacesetters anyway and order HPTuners. I have the Pacesetters installed now, but not tuned in. I can tell you that I really noticed the power gains from the duals, but the headers just seemed to make it louder. If I had it to do again I'd be using the stock manifolds with the Bassanis, and spending the $450 I would have saved on a camshaft. Just my opinion, my if I had it to do over.
Everyone has their own opinion. Opinions like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.Last edited by jag42420; 04-15-2007 at 05:33 PM.
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04-15-2007, 05:24 PM #17
What I said was "The smooshed factory y-pipe is more restrictive than a good aftermarket mandrel bent one. Most people tend not to modify their factory y-pipe when installing headers, because the aftermarket y-pipes are better."
I should have probably made it more clear and said, "Aftermarket y-pipes tend to flow better, which is why most people use them instead of modifying their factory y-pipes to fit (when installing headers)."
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04-15-2007, 05:32 PM #18
You need a new y-pipe with headers anyways, except for shorties, which aren't worth a damn.
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04-15-2007, 06:05 PM #19
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04-15-2007, 06:34 PM #20
Which is why I said, "Most people tend not to modify their factory y-pipe when installing headers,".
While most people tend not to MODIFY their stock y-pipe, you'll find a few penny pinchers that will. I know one guy in particular that cut his y-pipe, and welded a collector reducer flange onto it for a disconnect, then cut the rear pipe and put a muffler with a turndown effectively dumping it in front of the rear axle just so he could save $$ on a second muffler. $50 junkyard headers & collectors + $5 gaskets + $25 junkyard Flowmaster chamber + $10 pipes + a lot of patience = better flow, more power ugly ass junkyard exhaust. It works though
There are several combinations to choose from for an exhaust system. Like I said, everyone has an opinion.
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