help me please re: oil ran dry re: 98 T/A

[bossho]

Hello all & thank you in advance for any advice/direction/guidance you may be able to provide to me.

Situation: Car was running perfect (98 Trans Am Ls1 A4 100% stock).
Shame on me, about 1 week ago got a call from my teenage son that the car had stalled out and the oil was dry. I put a few quarts in it drove it home and did a complete flush and drain. Unfortunately my engine sounds like it is running rough can;t tell if its a light knock or a light grind. With this unfortunate exception my car is in excellent condition at least as far as appearance and interior being in great shape.

I work for the phone company and do my own basic maintenance but when it gets into anything beyond that I leave it to the professionals. I'd like to know best and worst case scenarios and what the expected costs may be with best and worst case scenarios.

My engine has 140k miles.

Is this a good time to consider a stroker kit and/or new performance heads?

If the issues are in just the top end I've heard rebuilding just the top end of a car with such high mileage is a waste or could cause potential issues with the internals/lower half not being able to handle to new top end.

I am pretty sure that this may be worse than just something sticking that's going to be an easy fix.

I did have plane to build motor over the long term (heads/cam/stroker/headers etc.) but it seems this is not going to happen on my schedule anymore based on immediate situation that needs to be resolved.

I am grateful to anyone that can give me some good direction and advice on what to expect. I will be using my regular repair shop who has been good to me over the years but I've never had anything this serious to deal with.
Labor rates in my area I would estimate to be close to the national average (around $60-$75 per hour I'd guess) it's not a dealership just a local family owned shop with a crew of about 8 guys, I;d guess some of them have ASE certifications & some do not. But I have seen them doing complete rebuilds over the years so I am comfortable this is something they can accommodate.

I don't have $8k, I'm guessing my budget is $2-$4k maybe a little bit more (total for parts & labor), not to sound like a broken record but I'm thinking this may be a good opportunity to stroke my engine or install performance heads and cam and have them install new internals from TSP, does this make sense?

Thanks Again for your feedback.

Tom
Bradenton, FL

[Smittro]

In my honest oppy a rebuild is in order. Without tearing into the motor there's really no way to tell if there was damage and to what extent. But as you know running an engine dry is'nt good.. I would say the engine is toast but others here will be along with their oppinions. Good luck.

[cammed goat]

Bearings are probably fried depending on how long the car was run with little/no oil.

[Cutlass]

Maybe you can pick up a used LS1 from a salvage yard, craigslist, or Ebay and have them install it. Then tell them you want your old LS1 back and you can build that up at your own pace as time and money allow. Then somewhere down the road you can swap that engine in and sell the stock LS1.

[hamburger68]

@ bossho:

with the mileage of your engine, i agree with cutlass. even if it's not too bad, a complete rebuilt might cost you more than a nice used ls1 for a swap. but you said you have a repair shop you trust, i'd have them take a listen and talk to them. maybe it's not that bad after all, though honestly, it doesn't sound too promising.

by the way, i've been to bradenton a couple of times on vacation.

[SMWS6TA]

Sounds like oil pump failure that plagues our 98-99 LS1's. If you do a partial rebuild, upgrade to an LS6 oil pump. Also, I've seen LS6 crate engines for $3500. Forget stroker, when an LS6 fits and plugs right into your current wire harness.

[00LS12LS6Z28]

Since you aren't doing the labor, don't be surprised if it goes over $5K. I say do what Cutlass says, that way you can build the motor the way you want with no time issues. Then you can always sell the LS1 you swapped in....

[bamaz28]

stroker

[bossho]

stroker

what can i expect for labor houra/costs to bore out Ls1 to high compressions 383, including installing new rotating assembly, new cam, new heads, new headers & required fuel delivery systems, -- I feel like I;m missing something - am I missing anything for a basic get back on the road repair/upgrade?

I can price up the parts- thats the easy parts - any cost efficient (not junk) recommendations welcome - leaning heavily towards Texas Speed & Performance (TSP) - unless there's a more cost efficient similar quality alternative supplier? - also anyone know of any built LS motors under 4 or 5 thousand please let me know, this may be a more cost efficient alternative.

Also, what about transmission, is now the time to look at 400 or 4L80E ?

approximate labor hours . whats is the consensus cost range I can expect for this project:
1- new rotating assembly
2- required block work to accommodate larger displacement motor
3 - new heads
4 - new increased fuel delivery (fuel pump, injectors, fuel rails)
5- new cam
6- what am I forgetting? - there has to be something I'm not including and unfortunately I don't mean twin turbos

My stock 4L60e tranny has 142K miles and as far as I know has never been rebuilt (I've only owned this car for less than 1 year) I am considering replacing or rebuilding my current 4L60E and wanted to get some feedback regarding the pro's and con's of of sticking with 4L60E, picking up one with low miles or going with the 700R4, which I think can handkle more higher HP and abuse - any feedback regarding chossing one or the other would be very much appreciated.

[cammed goat]

Well, folks will tell you to tear the motor down to the bare block yourself to save money. Labor per hour costs are determined by the shop and what the folks at the shop have to do to the engine.

Just tell them what you want done and ask them how much to bore your engine and build it.

[DaddySS]

If the car stalled due to no oil there is no doubt serious damage to several parts. If it were me, I'd get the LS6 service engine for $3300 and call it a day. It comes with LS6 heads, won't give you any tuning headaches, and gives you a good solid foundation to work off of if you chose to add a cam etc. later.

[bossho]

Sounds like oil pump failure that plagues our 98-99 LS1's. If you do a partial rebuild, upgrade to an LS6 oil pump. Also, I've seen LS6 crate engines for $3500. Forget stroker, when an LS6 fits and plugs right into your current wire harness.

thanks for the advice on the LS6 crate engines - all the ones I've found are $5500+ although that reasonable price- $3500 is over 30% less cost, do you recall where you found such a low priced Ls6 crate engine?

Also, any compatibility issues I need to be aware of swapping an Ls6 for my Ls1?

[redbird555]

call scoggin dickey they usually have a few in stock for that price. The price your referring to comes with the harness injectors intake etc while the other is just the long block ie motor and heads no intake or electronics however that can all be swapped over from your ls1. You will need a slight retune in the computer to fully take advantage of the ls6 other than that everything else is a direct swap its the same engine just different heads and cam. Btw here ya go on sale for $3200 crateenginedepot.com

[SMWS6TA]

thanks for the advice on the LS6 crate engines - all the ones I've found are $5500+ although that reasonable price- $3500 is over 30% less cost, do you recall where you found such a low priced Ls6 crate engine?

Also, any compatibility issues I need to be aware of swapping an Ls6 for my Ls1?

Bossho PM sent.....

[DaddySS]

call scoggin dickey they usually have a few in stock for that price. The price your referring to comes with the harness injectors intake etc while the other is just the long block ie motor and heads no intake or electronics however that can all be swapped over from your ls1. You will need a slight retune in the computer to fully take advantage of the ls6 other than that everything else is a direct swap its the same engine just different heads and cam. Btw here ya go on sale for $3200 crateenginedepot.com

Exactly!

[bossho]

I am the original poster to this thread;
I can get a 2004 LS1 pulled from a GTO with 25k miles on it for $2300 and put an aggressive cam, headers and a torque convertor to handle it for about $5k + 2k for installation costs labor or I get a new LS6 (stock) with a warranty for about $3500 + the same approximately $2k for installation costs.
Which way should I go? – both options I’m looking at will end up costing me nearly the same at the end of the day.
Do any of you have any other alternatives to suggest to me that would make more sense than the 2 options above?
What is the consensus on the direction I should go?
1st option - Build up the used 04 LS1 with headers and a torque convertor or
2nd option - just put in a new stock LS6 and sticks with the stock exhaust and no torque convertor at least for now until my budget allows upgrades to the LS6?
Consensus to better idea of #1 or #2 above or any other alternative solutions in the same approximate price range gentlemen please?

[Cutlass]

I like idea #1

[Marc 85Z28]

If you're incapable of the simple task of keeping oil in the engine, you have NO business thinking about a high performance build. Have you heard the expression that you need to learn to walk before you can run? Well, in this case, you haven't gotten the crawling part down yet.

[bossho]

If you're incapable of the simple task of keeping oil in the engine, you have NO business thinking about a high performance build. Have you heard the expression that you need to learn to walk before you can run? Well, in this case, you haven't gotten the crawling part down yet.

your quote has some merit, so I'll bitE my lip this is something that definately should NOT have happened so shame on me, I don't appreciate your tone but I'll bite my lip because I am not here to make enemies not here not anywhere in life, admittedly I work for the phone company as an engineer for 20 years and have zero experience with engine builds (hands on), cam changes, head work etc, are all out of my league, my intellectual assets drop sharply beyond anything beyond doing my own basic maintenance (engine and tranny fluid and filter changes, brake pad & rotor changes, basic tunes (not performance tunes), electrical & mechanical systems (IE a/c, alternators - etc) Unfortunately my 19 year old son was driving it when this happened 1 mile away from my home in a 30 mph speed limit zone and I sincerely don't believe there was any negligence involved that caused the engine to run dry, there were no prior indications of oil leaks or low pressure, i think a gasket simply or the pump failed...anyways I've certainly got alot of good information and suggestions to process and wanted to thank all of you that chirped in with your own personal recommendations and or important insight to be taken into consideration moving forward. There's clearly only 1 or 2 primary options that would make sense based upon my personal goals and budget and most importantly the LS1.COM's community feedback and imput.

THANK YOU ALL - i WILL SURELY KEEP YOU UP TO DATE WITH DETAILS AND PICTURES AS APPROPRIATE AND HOPEFULLY BE ABLE TO TEACH OUT AND GIVE SOMEONE SOME SUGGESTIONS OR INSIGHT BASED UPON MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCES JUSTY LIKE YOU ALL HAVE DONE FOR ME.

MUCH ALOHA, GOOD HEALTH & PROSPERITY TO ALL

THANKS AGAIN !!!
TOM SULLIVAN
ELLENTON, FL 34222
TOM@TSGGLOBAL.COM