Ethanol fuel in the LS1 V8

**Eric Goeringer** · 10-26-2006, 07:00 PM

Hi all, I am new to the site but a long time Camero / Trans AM fan. I am a proud owner of a 2002 35th anniversary Z28. I put a tank of Ethanol mixed 93 octane in her when filled up a month ago. I noticed that she seems to have developed a miss at idol.
so the next time I filled up I used non mix 93 octane the miss went away. Today I filled up without thinking first and put the mix stuff in again, and of course the miss came back. Does anyone know what kind of risk and known issues with running ethanol mixed fuel in the 1998 - 2002 LS1s ?

I also have a bad lifter tap when the motor is cold, but when it get to operating temp the lifter tap goes away. It has been doing that since the day I bought it. When I test drove it I noticed right away that the valves where rattling(in short dealer ship put 87 octane in it). Could it be possible that when someone was test driving and gunned it with the 87 octane in it that the lifters where damaged from the detonation?

Well lengthy questions, but any feedback will most appreciated.

**JonB** · 10-26-2006, 07:08 PM

From what I know our cars are not setup to run ethonal, but still ethonal usually has a higher octane rating that regular gas or even premium gas so i'm not sure why it was missing. I know that there are probably some modification you have to do to get our cars to run ethonal. I would stick with 93. The tapping sound you hear is proabably either piston slap which is very common with the ls1 usually hear it when its cold and goes away or gets quiter once it warms up just as you described. Do a search on piston slap and i'm sure you'll find tons of info on it.

**PaganEgyptian** · 10-26-2006, 11:03 PM

Ethanol requires higher compression to burn. A highly modified LS1 can burn it. E-85 is 112octane, 100% Ethanol is 120octane. A stroked and decked motor will love it. Ford's flex fuel system, recognizes the octane and advances the timing to allow higher compression before ignition. -Tim

**SSpdDmon** · 10-27-2006, 04:46 AM

Please learn to spell CAMARO right...

**YoMommasTA** · 10-27-2006, 05:39 AM

e fuel will eat the fbod fuel lines and fuel rail fast.DON"T USE IT!

**Sarge** · 10-27-2006, 05:51 AM

Dont put that shit in your ride man. Fucking alcohol.....your car aint built for it. If you believe the goverment........
Q: Will I hurt a gasoline-only vehicle if I use E85?
A: Yes. Longer-term use of E85 in gasoline-only vehicles may cause damage because of the incompatibility of the alcohol fuel with the parts in gasoline-only engines. Performance and emissions will also be compromised.

As for the lifter question. How many miles on that bad boy?

**ErikElvis** · 10-27-2006, 08:27 AM

What about the 10% ethanol mixes? It seems all the gas stations here run the 10%.

**SSpdDmon** · 10-27-2006, 08:37 AM

10% ethanol is manageable in all cars as it will only lean them out 3-5%, which is well within the tolerances of the PCM for adjusting. E85 and straight ethanol requires up to 40~50% more fuel and higher compression to burn right. Plus, it kills the seals and other components in the fuel system that are not designed for ethanol. 10% isn't enough to cause a problem though...

**bigrondownhiller** · 10-27-2006, 12:08 PM

last months car craft did and article where they changed a carb over to run on ethanol and did dyno tests too. they also spent time explaining why you cant go from gas to straight ethanol or e85.

**YoMommasTA** · 10-27-2006, 02:23 PM

even 10% ethanol fuel will eat the fuel lines and fuel rail.Ask me how i know.If you want to see pics i saved parts,will shock you.Problem with ANY ethanol in gas is ethanol is a 02 carrying fuel.That means it collects water from the atmosphere.NO WAY TO STOP IT.so everytime you fill up you also give your fuel system a shot of water.NOW mix ethanol,water and fbodies bare carbon steel fuel lines and fuel rail,not to mention all the steel connectors on the nylon fuel lines.You can have a mess quickly.I never put fuel in the tank without an additive to protect the system.I seen a stock fuel filter that was installed for one year that was so badly corroded and rusted if i hadn't installed myself i wouldn't believed it.Same with the lines and fuel rail.Tell how you can check quickly is to pop the line off at the fuel rail and look inside steel lines on the body or pop the pulsator off the fuel rail and look there.This is a huge problem on the newer trucks using the fbod system returnless fuel system.The local dealer here stocks the complete line and fuel rails its that common.They have trouble with brandnew off the car carrier trucks because the fuel system rusts that fast just in shipping.Car companies should be forced to fix all this crap for free.Cost me 3500 the 1st time,won't be a next time if you know what i mean.

**Mr. Luos** · 10-27-2006, 05:47 PM

All stations in Colorado have 10% ethanol.
Nothing I can do about it.

**YoMommasTA** · 10-27-2006, 05:49 PM

yeah same here,thats why i never fill up without an additive.I've watched it closely now and with the additive no damage so far.

**Mr. Luos** · 10-27-2006, 05:49 PM

There is one station near work that has ethanol free fuel.
Always more expensive though.

**YoMommasTA** · 10-27-2006, 05:53 PM

the 1st time it damaged everything we were not using an additive.I put a new fuel filter in oct and when the car stopped running 11 months later in sept. it looked like someone dipped it in acid internally.If i had not installed it myself i would say it was 20 yearsold.It also ate holes through the fuel rail.crazy stuff.

**Mr. Luos** · 10-27-2006, 05:59 PM

Nuts.
I have never had a problem here. With any part of the fueling system.
I fill up anywhere...as long as it says Conoco on the building.

**YoMommasTA** · 10-27-2006, 06:00 PM

knock on wood!

**Mr. Luos** · 10-27-2006, 06:13 PM

Something is off man.
They wouldn't be able to have 99% of stations giving up fuel that eats up our lines.

The F-Body isn't the only vehicle that would suffer the ethanol fate.

**YoMommasTA** · 10-27-2006, 06:29 PM

like i said the local chevy dealer knew all about it.Of course my dealer where we bought it claimed they never heard of such a thing!When i called t have the lines replaced they had a brandnew truck in the shop for the exct same problem.GM has a bulletin dated in 02 all about it.

GM's bulletin
Returnless Fuel Systems Increasingly stringent evaporative emission regulations have caused GM to introduce returnless fuel systems. In a returnless design, no fuel is sent back to the fuel tank from the engine. All fuel leaving the tank flows through the fuel injectors.

Returnless systems have been in production since 1998 (Trans Am, Camaro and Corvette). A significant migration toward returnless fuel systems began in the 2004 model year. By 2007, the majority of GM vehicles will be converted to the returnless design.

Any contamination (including rust) that is built into or forms in the fuel line will find its way to the fuel injectors. A filter at the inlet to the fuel injector filters out small contaminants, including rust (fig. 11). If enough debris accumulates on the injector filter, it will start to restrict flow. This will have a negative effect on performance and driveabilty.

For the 2004 model year, there has been an increase in the number of injectors returned with rust in the injector filter. The rust appears to be coming from several sources:
- the chassis fuel line
- the crossover pipe on the Gen III fuel rail.

Both pipes are made of low-carbon steel, and the inside of the pipe is not coated. If water gets into the fuel system, it has the potential to rust the line.

When diagnosing driveability symptoms due to clogged fuel injectors, follow the procedures outlined in bulletin 03-06-04-030A. If the bulletin procedures lead to replacing an injector, inspect the removed injector for evidence of rust contamination. If rust is plugging the fuel injector, replace it, because a procedure for removing rust from the injector filter has not been developed.

If rust remains in the fuel line, there is a chance that the injector filter will plug up again. Whenever rust is observed in an injector, flush the fuel lines. If the fuel line cannot be completely flushed of rust, replace it.

A small amount of rust in the fuel tank will typically not cause a problem. The fuel filter will prevent the rust from getting to the injectors. The capacity of the filter is large enough to keep it from plugging up. There is also a strainer (“sock”) at the inlet to the fuel pump. The strainer prevents contamination from getting into the fuel pump and causing problems. However, rust in the fuel tank is a sign that water may be in the tank. If rust is observed in the fuel tank, empty it and flush with hot water, according to SI procedures.

**YoMommasTA** · 10-27-2006, 06:37 PM

read above carefully before posting,remember ALL ethanol fuels contain water.

The rust appears to be coming from several sources:
- the chassis fuel line
- the crossover pipe on the Gen III fuel rail.

Both pipes are made of low-carbon steel, and the inside of the pipe is not coated. If water gets into the fuel system, it has the potential to rust the line.

**YoMommasTA** · 10-27-2006, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Luos

Something is off man.
They wouldn't be able to have 99% of stations giving up fuel that eats up our lines.

The F-Body isn't the only vehicle that would suffer the ethanol fate.

you have no idea how common this is!