ceased engine?

**Bouvers** · 03-11-2007, 11:19 AM

I have a new problem, this morning I started my car up for the first time this year. Started pretty well actually considering my previous low fuel pressure problem(atlest I think it is). I let the engine come up to temp. then tried moving it from its resting place. (didn't get anywhere thanks to ice) so I just gave up, put the car in park and stepped out the car, just as I did, it died. Oddly enough it didn't sputter, whine or fluctuate rpm's at all just died as if the key was switched off.
I checked the oil scared that I ceased the engine, perfectly fine. temp. was a little low but easily within opperating temp. Now I try to turn the engine over and the starter doesn't engage just makes that click click click noise. WTF is wrong I have no blown fuses, if its a wrecked started whatever but why did my car die... any inputs would be awesome thanks guys I'm really scared my car is fubr'd.
Bouvs.

**Mjolnir** · 03-11-2007, 11:40 AM

check the battery? plugs? starter?

**2001NBMZ28** · 03-11-2007, 11:42 AM

First thing I'd suspect is the battery/connections. Never had one kill the car while running...but been through the clicking trying to start with a bad one.

**Bouvers** · 03-11-2007, 12:39 PM

ya thats a really good idea, the battery wasn't frozen but it was dead and I did boost it to get it started... however, the gauge did seem good but I didn't keep a very close eye on it. I'll check it out tomorrow thanks guys!

**0rion** · 03-11-2007, 05:35 PM

Just my gut feeling since I wasn't there and didn't hear the car but if something broke you definitely would've known it.
I've actually put some thought into my restart this year. It can't be good to let a car sit for a month or so and then fire it up dry. I think this year I'm gonna pull the fuel pump fuse and turn it over a few times to get oil to the top of the motor before firing it up.

**juiced99ws6** · 03-11-2007, 05:43 PM

jumpstart the car again and see what happens. sounds like a bad alternator to me. your car will run off the power you give to the battery for a short time and then since its not recieving any charge it cant support the electrical side for very long.

**juiced99ws6** · 03-11-2007, 05:43 PM

let us know what you find

**0rion** · 03-11-2007, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by juiced99ws6

jumpstart the car again and see what happens. sounds like a bad alternator to me. your car will run off the power you give to the battery for a short time and then since its not recieving any charge it cant support the electrical side for very long.

good advice

**juiced99ws6** · 03-12-2007, 04:56 AM

thanks.. dont give me a big head

**rbob93** · 03-12-2007, 05:37 AM

Well let's see now.....you had a dead battery....jumped it....the gauge looked good....but the engine died after running for a bit

Time for a new battery.....put a full charge on it before installing it in the car

Even with a good alternator you aren't going to charge enough to overcome the dead battery
You also run the risk of frying the electronics in your alternator due to the added load placed on it
Alternators aren't designed to charge dead or low batteries

**juiced99ws6** · 03-12-2007, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by rbob93

Well let's see now.....you had a dead battery....jumped it....the gauge looked good....but the engine died after running for a bit

Time for a new battery.....put a full charge on it before installing it in the car

Even with a good alternator you aren't going to charge enough to overcome the dead battery
You also run the risk of frying the electronics in your alternator due to the added load placed on it
Alternators aren't designed to charge dead or low batteries

the alternator only works as hard as the belt will spin it, its not like it says ok now I guess I have to kick it into overdrive.. I have killed my battery many of times because of leaving my hood lights on and I mean to the point that I couldnt even open my doors (dont have door key only remote) and yet it still charged up just fine.

BTW you do realize a car will run without a battery right? try it sometime, as long as it starts then the alternator will take it from there. (Besides starting) a car doesnt even need a battery.

**0rion** · 03-12-2007, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by juiced99ws6

BTW you do realize a car will run without a battery right? try it sometime, as long as it starts then the alternator will take it from there. (Besides starting) a car doesnt even need a battery.

That was the reason I was thinking alternator was good advice. That's an old trick to test your alternator. Start the car up and pull a cable off the battery, if the car dies then it's your alternator. I test mine by putting a multi-meter across the battery terminals. Should be ~14.4 volts.

**LS2Tuner** · 03-12-2007, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by juiced99ws6

the alternator only works as hard as the belt will spin it, its not like it says ok now I guess I have to kick it into overdrive.. I have killed my battery many of times because of leaving my hood lights on and I mean to the point that I couldnt even open my doors (dont have door key only remote) and yet it still charged up just fine.

BTW you do realize a car will run without a battery right? try it sometime, as long as it starts then the alternator will take it from there. (Besides starting) a car doesnt even need a battery.

You need to be VERY careful doing that. As a matter a fact I would NEVER do that with my own computer controled car or a customers. I've seen MANY cars come in on the hook do to a fryed PCM from that "test".
When you do that on any newer vehical it causes the alt. to spike which can cause MANY problems you didn't already have. I've seen them spike in test as high as 17 volts.
You need to do a voltage drop on the + batt. cable. Measuring voltage is a thing of the past...... Voltage drops are soo much more acurate in helping diagnos ANY elec. problem.

**rbob93** · 03-12-2007, 11:49 PM

Thank you LS2Tuner for your EDUCATED reply.

Back in the 60's & 70's you could get away with that.....but no more!

And yes....it's possible for a car to run without a battery, but the battery is a necssary component because it acts as a "filter" to stabilize the pulsating DC produced by the alternator.

Even connecting or disconnecting test equipment gives rise to the possibility of causing voltage spikes that could also damage sensitive electronic components.

Alternators are designed to MAINTAIN a charged battery, NOT charge a battery in a discharged state.
Battery manufacturers will also instruct you to FULLY CHARGE a battery before placing it into service for this very reason.

If the alternator is suspect, remove it and have it tested on a machine.

If the battery is more than two years old and has been discharged, it's probably shot or on it's way out due to sulphation.

**LS2Tuner** · 03-12-2007, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by rbob93

Thank you LS2Tuner for your EDUCATED reply.

Back in the 60's & 70's you could get away with that.....but no more!

And yes....it's possible for a car to run without a battery, but the battery is a necssary component because it acts as a "filter" to stabilize the pulsating DC produced by the alternator.

Even connecting or disconnecting test equipment gives rise to the possibility of causing voltage spikes that could also damage sensitive electronic components.

Alternators are designed to MAINTAIN a charged battery, NOT charge a battery in a discharged state.
Battery manufacturers will also instruct you to FULLY CHARGE a battery before placing it into service for this very reason.

If the alternator is suspect, remove it and have it tested on a machine.

If the battery is more than two years old and has been discharged, it's probably shot or on it's way out due to sulphation.

True that on the batt. for sure!!!! We had some VERY interesting testing videos that BMW made on the whole voltage spikeing issue. In 04 the 745 had 82 computers in the one car with all the options.......
Glad someone else that is knowledged agreed before someone replys that they do it all the time with no problems.

**juiced99ws6** · 03-13-2007, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by rbob93

Thank you LS2Tuner for your EDUCATED reply.

and my reply made no sense whatsoever I take it?

and I take it the voltage regulator does nothing to regulate the voltage

I never said it was in no way a battery, just a response and you tried completely shooting it out of the water

**rbob93** · 03-13-2007, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by juiced99ws6

and my reply made no sense whatsoever I take it?

and I take it the voltage regulator does nothing to regulate the voltage

I never said it was in no way a battery, just a response and you tried completely shooting it out of the water

Never said it didn't.....you assumed

If a battery is left standing in a discharged condition, lead sulphate will harden and have a high electrical resistance.
Alternators are voltage regulated. The charging current is controlled by the battery's state of charge.
During charging, battery voltage rises until it meets the regulated voltage lowering the current output along the way.
In a sulphated battery, it gives a false report and the regulator shuts down the charge prematurely. The battery then has a minimal charge on it and it doesn't take long to run it down.
The high resistance from the hardened sulphate also causes the electronics in your alternator to heat up more than normal, thereby decreasing the life of the diodes. So yes.....it's possible to fry the electronics in your alternator by running a discharged battery.

I offered my opinion on the guy's problem just as you did.....you decided to get all butt hurt over it.

( and I never said it couldn't be the alternator )

You'll find that there are alot of people in the world that have something to add to conversations. It doesn't necessarily mean thay are picking a fight or trying to show you up.

**juiced99ws6** · 03-13-2007, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by rbob93

Never said it didn't.....you assumed

If a battery is left standing in a discharged condition, lead sulphate will harden and have a high electrical resistance.
Alternators are voltage regulated. The charging current is controlled by the battery's state of charge.
During charging, battery voltage rises until it meets the regulated voltage lowering the current output along the way.
In a sulphated battery, it gives a false report and the regulator shuts down the charge prematurely. The battery then has a minimal charge on it and it doesn't take long to run it down.
The high resistance from the hardened sulphate also causes the electronics in your alternator to heat up more than normal, thereby decreasing the life of the diodes. So yes.....it's possible to fry the electronics in your alternator by running a discharged battery.

I offered my opinion on the guy's problem just as you did.....you decided to get all butt hurt over it.

( and I never said it couldn't be the alternator )

You'll find that there are alot of people in the world that have something to add to conversations. It doesn't necessarily mean thay are picking a fight or trying to show you up.

ok, well then sorry. how it was worded just sounded to me like something else. I was tempermental after your first post for some reason and then after your "educated" response I got annoyed. I dont get that way often, just depends on my day at work i guess lol.