another ls1 camaro cranks no start question

**ssscamaro** · 10-14-2006, 04:32 PM

Hi, i just got a 98 ss 6 speed camaro i purchaesd with 47k delieverd from Arizona Yesterday. the car fired right up off the transport. I shut off ..started up a few minutes later..drove up driveway about 900 feet. Shut off... restarted 10 minutes later and drove to in laws house (3 miles). left in laws with wife driving car drove home 3 miles....car stalls in our drive way( yes she had clutch in yes full tank gas ) would not restart ...just cranks and cranks. waited about 1/2 hour tried again no start.. just cranks .. i can hear fuel pump turn on for a couple seconds. today i checked spark while cranking with timing light...it shows spark that way. Hooked up fuel pressure guage ...swithched key on/off several times ... no fuel pressure...thought guage bad??? Pushed in shrader valve no fuel. Changed fuel filter...no pressure.... tried different key ...(vatts?) no start just cranks?? Bought a $150 code scanner... no codes...
questions..... if a vatts problem would car crank and have spark and fuel pump on ??? Ill need to get a noid light for injectors i guess??
In the short time i drove i noticed the coolant light was on in dash ?? but coolant level is ok in the radiator?? can this be part of it??
Researching in old posts re coolant temp sensors ..if this is problem would i still get spark with pump running but no pressure??
Crank positions sensor?? if bad would i be getting spark???
Engine ran strong for the 7 miles i drove it!! feels to have adequate compression when cranking.
can fuel pump be bad even though it makes what sound to me to "sound normal"(i have had several efi gm vehicles ..fairly sure pump "sounds" ok)
car had a dealer installed gm alarm(similar to stock alarm option) i armed and disarmed this thing every which way... i would think alarm wiould not alow to crank??
Owner says he never had issue with not starting( original owner ..very nice seems very honest)
I checked all fuses ...i read a couple posts regarding ign relay swap with starter relay ...but i am seeing spark ( at least inducted spark from my timing light) wiil try that..
ANY SUGGESTIONS ??? wife wants to castrate me for buying as it is... now with this problem shes even more pissed!!
Thanks

**YoMommasTA** · 10-14-2006, 04:38 PM

vats on=no crank and no injector pulse but you would have fuel pessure.!st place to start checking is fuses and relays.Pump is probably finnished.

**ssscamaro** · 10-14-2006, 04:43 PM

i checked all fuses per gm service manuals... ok ...I can hear the pump?? can pump run but not pull/ push fuel?? can the impellar or gerotor seperate from shaft etc?? Do pumps usually stop electrically or stop "pumping" ??
Can a sensor problem or vatts allow it to crank and spark but no fuel pressure?? Could it loose its prime somehow?? i have cycled key at least 10 time till this point..

**02z28ls1** · 10-14-2006, 05:10 PM

Fuel pump is the logical failure at this point. It is one of the few things that would fail without setting a code. Check for voltage at pump and make sure it continues to recieve voltage after intial pump sound. Yes it can make a noise and have no pressure. Its rather strange for it to fail at that mileage, and the wife has a point (don't tell her though) buying a used car is risky. But what's life without a little adventure?

**ssscamaro** · 10-14-2006, 05:40 PM

didnt think of checking for voltage near pump after first 2 seconds...i would think it has voltage only when cranking / running though after 1st 2 seconds??

**0rion** · 10-14-2006, 08:04 PM

If I read that correctly you're saying you have no pressure at the rail yet you hear the pump prime? If that's correct my money is on the pump since you've already ruled out the filter. I would check the line that drops off the tank and make sure nothing is kinked back there and would be tempted to unhook the line from the filter and turn the key on to see if gas pours out of it.

**YoMommasTA** · 10-15-2006, 05:52 AM

or a blockage from rust etc,it does happen on cars that sit and are not preped properly

**MonkiMajyk** · 10-15-2006, 11:21 AM

damn....

**ssscamaro** · 10-15-2006, 07:51 PM

i put 12 volts direct to pump still no fuel pressure ..you can hear pump run ..has at least 5 gallons in it(more likely about 12) can the internal regulator stick?? Not allowing any primeing of pump ... its running just not sounding like its under a load.
do new stock gm or ac delco pumps come as complete assy or do you need to get new or reuse existing pressure sensor, pickup strainer, regulator etc??
Ryan

**ssscamaro** · 10-15-2006, 07:52 PM

Ok finally out of denial. the pump in my 98 ls1 camaro needs replacing. I have read about the cut a hole in trunk method. I do not want to do that. So looking at my shop manual i see it says you need to remove the rearend!! Is that necessary??? Can tank be removed without removing the rear?? Can i just lower the rear down(support car and let rear hang)?? 98 has the steal fuel tank if that matters.
Thanks
Ryan

**0rion** · 10-15-2006, 08:19 PM

Yeah, the rear has to be dropped. Just unhook the shocks,LCA's, torque arm, drive shaft and unbolt the bracket that holds the brake lines on the drivers side and drop the rear( if not you might stretch those lines and break them)the springs will also come out once the rear is lowered. The panhard bar and sway bar will also have to come off. Getting that tank out is either really easy or a real bitch. I pulled mine twice last winter. The first time I did it by myself and it came out without to much trouble. The second time I had help and we fought that thing tooth and nail the entire time. The key is to get the rear as low as you can. After it was out the 2nd time I clearanced around the filler neck so if I ever have to pull it again it'll be much easier. I would absolutely make certain it's the pump before you pull it. It sounds to me like that's what your problem is but I would make certain before pulling the tank.
PM me if you have any questions. It sounds worse than it actually is.

**ssscamaro** · 10-15-2006, 08:24 PM

thanks for reply ..so i really do need to drop the rear ...the control arms need to be unbolted to get it low enough??
Ryan

**0rion** · 10-15-2006, 08:29 PM

actually, I might have been wrong on that one. I don't think they have to be removed. Seems like I dropped it the second time with them in.
Let me think about it a bit and try to remember. Either they didn't have to be or I tried it and ended up taking them off to get it lower. Actually, I'm kinda second guessing a couple of those things now.

Let me try to remember what all I took off.

**YoMommasTA** · 10-16-2006, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by ssscamaro

i put 12 volts direct to pump still no fuel pressure ..you can hear pump run ..has at least 5 gallons in it(more likely about 12) can the internal regulator stick?? Not allowing any primeing of pump ... its running just not sounding like its under a load.
do new stock gm or ac delco pumps come as complete assy or do you need to get new or reuse existing pressure sensor, pickup strainer, regulator etc??
Ryan

i'm sorry i'm not familair with the 98 fuel pump setup because it uses a completely different setup then the 99 up fbodies.I'll do a search and see what info i can find.The 99 up you replace the entire pump-regulator-sender assembly as one unit.The 99 up the tank is very easy to drop out because its light weight plastic with a seperate filler neck.

Before diging into pulling the fuel tank you should do a search and get more info on the 98 fuel setup.Do some testing,if you pull the fuel filter off and turn the pump on do you get fuel out at that point?

**ssscamaro** · 10-16-2006, 04:23 AM

did all that.... must be pump ..no flow when powered directly....just dont know if stock regultor(part of in tank assy) are a prone failure item??
Ryan

**YoMommasTA** · 10-16-2006, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by ssscamaro

did all that.... must be pump ..no flow when powered directly....just dont know if stock regultor(part of in tank assy) are a prone failure item??
Ryan

the 99 up are not prone to failure unless rust gets in the regulator from bad lines.do yourself a big favor and stasrt looking for rust in the tank and lines.I seen alot with badly rusted fuel systems from sitting.I wish i had more info on the 98 system but i don't.I believe its very similair to the 99 but with a metal fuel tank.The pres reg in the 99 up is just a small round piece stuck in the return line inside the tank pump ass. do you have a tee fitting at the fuel filter with a line running off that tee back to the tank? if you do then the reg is in the tank.

**ssscamaro** · 10-16-2006, 03:23 PM

yes same fuel line setup as a 99 up...has t regulator is in the tank. i picked up a stock ac delco pump assy and a fuel pressure regulator repair kit today(the pump assy contains a everything..regulator,pressure switch,sender,pump ,tubings etc) reason i got the regulator seperate also?? Because i also ordered the racetronix/walbro pump kit. I will check everything over and probally end up using racetronix with the new regulator and return stock pump assy. However if i dint like the racetronix when i get it then stock replacement goes in and i will sell racetronix on here for what i paid. i will post back when its repaired hopefully be done by end of week.
Ryan

**0rion** · 10-16-2006, 09:24 PM

you will like the racetonix kit. That's what I put in. I've thought about it and to be honest I don't 100% remember what all I pulled off to drop the rear.

The first time I had the rear completely out doing the rear swap. The second time I had the rear in the car and I *think* I just took the sway bar and shocks off but for some reason it seems like I ended up pulling the rear mounts off of the LCA's. I do remember pulling the brake line bracket off because the lines were getting tight. The more room you can get back there the better so do whatever you gotta do to get the rear as low as it'll go. That filler neck will be a bitch to get outta there so you'll just have to keep playing with the tank angle as your pulling it out. The first time I pulled it I didn't have any problems getting it out of there but the 2nd time it really kicked my ass getting the filler neck out of there.