Staggered.....Why?

**Smittro** · 05-26-2010, 07:41 PM

I've noticed since I've been here @ the site that alot of you guys stagger your tires. Smaller in the front and wider in the back. Does this give you a distinctive handling advantage? Or is it because it looks good? Over the weekend I mounted my (summer tires only) ZR rated Kumho victoracers. All 4 are the same size 265/45/16 on my flakes. I swear it's like I glued the car to the road in the tightest of corners @ speed. These tires are nothing short of impressive and they won't break loose. I could blaze any other tire I've tried just stomping it.. Any and all comments welcome..

**2001camaroSS** · 05-26-2010, 10:37 PM

i know that i personally did mine for looks but at the same time a wider tire does affect your steering.

**Smittro** · 05-26-2010, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by 2001camaroSS

i know that i personally did mine for looks but at the same time a wider tire does affect your steering.

I honestly think it's much easier to steer now than before. Definetly way more responsive stearing wise. Gained a little torque too with the 45 rather than the 55's.. I turned the ASR off and still could'nt cut them loose. I could spin some before with the ASR on before it would cut the power on the other types of tires I've tried. Not too shabby for tires that only cost about $600..

**2001camaroSS** · 05-26-2010, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Smittro

I honestly think it's much easier to steer now than before. Definetly way more responsive stearing wise. Gained a little torque too with the 45 rather than the 55's.. I turned the ASR off and still could'nt cut them loose. I could spin some before with the ASR on before it would cut the power on the other types of tires I've tried. Not too shabby for tires that only cost about $600..

well i was more or less talking about having 295s all the way around. i should have specified. i have 255s in the front on mine

**Smittro** · 05-27-2010, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by 2001camaroSS

well i was more or less talking about having 295s all the way around. i should have specified. i have 255s in the front on mine

I gotcha.. I went from Kumho sport tires (seen in my sig) that were only 235/55'5 to super sticky 265/45's with a very stiff side wall and the difference is awesome. Thier mounting machine actually had a little trouble flexing the side walls

.. Victoracers are a precise tire and do not require wheel weights.

**allbaugh_04** · 05-27-2010, 05:44 AM

I did it for looks and traction

**Smittro** · 05-27-2010, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by allbaugh_04

I did it for looks and traction

I did mine for traction/cornering mostly, but they look good too imho.

Side note: victo's are not street legal tires.. shshshshsh

**shady milkman** · 05-27-2010, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Smittro

I did mine for traction/cornering mostly, but they look good too imho.

Side note: victo's are not street legal tires.. shshshshsh

why not?

**Smittro** · 05-27-2010, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

why not?

Tread depth.. and they're a racing tire..

**Smittro** · 05-27-2010, 08:09 AM

The VictoRacer V700 is the original competition member of the Kumho high performance tire family. It is a DOT-legal (not in PA), race-winning tire which, by capturing national championships at the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) Tire Rack Solo II Nationals and SCCA Road Racing Runoffs, has proven its capabilities in both autocross and road racing competition.

The VictoRacer V700 features an asymmetric tread design molded at 5/32" to 6/32" of tread depth in its two major circumferential grooves. Its tread design features extra wide tread blocks for its outer shoulder (which comprise about 1/3 of the tire's tread width) to maximize cornering grip while promoting tread life (when new, the shoulder blocks are interrupted only by shallow, 1/32" deep lateral grooves). The center and inner shoulder portions of the tread design are comprised of short, stable tread blocks to further enhance handling while providing some wet traction when new (or at near full tread depth). The V700 features a tread compound specifically developed to provide maximum grip, handling and treadlife.

Internally the V700 has two steel belts reinforced with two nylon cap plies to help stabilize the tread area and provide V-speed rated (for 13" & 14" rim diameter sizes) or Z-speed rated (for 15", 16", and 17" diameter sizes) capability. Additionally, three rayon carcass plies with sidewall stiffeners provide high temperature durability and quick steering response. Attractively priced, the Kumho V700 is designed to provide the best traction and treadlife for your racing dollar.

Important Notice: Kumho VictoRacer V700 tires must be shaved to 3/32" - 4/32" of remaining tread depth for any track use in dry conditions.

Kumho advises that the VictoRacer V700 DOT-legal competition radial must be shaved prior to use in dry track conditions. If this tire is not shaved, excessive wear may occur causing the tire to wear to the cords prematurely in a localized area.

Tire heat cycling will not prevent the excessive localized wear of full tread depth tires but will continue to enhance the tire consistency and wear on shaved tires.

**Smittro** · 05-27-2010, 08:23 AM

Comparable Competitor Products
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, Pirelli PZero Corsa Competition, Toyo Proxes RA1, Yokohama ADVAN, Yokohama AO32R, Yokohama AO48

**c5z28** · 05-27-2010, 08:40 AM

I was going to say that tread wear is really shallow for a new tire. Wider tires in the rear will make the car under steer more. For me going into a smooth corner at 50mph (on ramp/off ramp) the tire that always squeels first is the front left, no oversteer at all, unless of course I hit the gas really hard then I would be screwed. In slow turns when I autox or on the street with a sharp turn my car pushes and in some cases snap oversteers (it did the other day only doing 30mph) I have no weight on the back so it swung around-fast. I run 275-40-17 all around. Wider rears would certainly help me but I don't want more understeer bias, although it would help with the rear being so light. If I could I would run a wider tire all around.

**Smittro** · 05-27-2010, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by c5z28

I was going to say that tread wear is really shallow for a new tire. Wider tires in the rear will make the car under steer more. For me going into a smooth corner at 50mph (on ramp/off ramp) the tire that always squeels first is the front left, no oversteer at all, unless of course I hit the gas really hard then I would be screwed. In slow turns when I autox or on the street with a sharp turn my car pushes and in some cases snap oversteers (it did the other day only doing 30mph) I have no weight on the back so it swung around-fast. I run 275-40-17 all around. Wider rears would certainly help me but I don't want more understeer bias, although it would help with the rear being so light. If I could I would run a wider tire all around.

For the v6 guys, our engine sits back farther than the ls cars and our weight distribution front and rear is better. These tires do not squeel even @ speeds exceeding 80-100mph around the bends. I took a mildly sweeping 90* corner (good banking on and empty road) a little over 100 and did'nt even notice it trying to do anything odd. Braking stability is excellent as well. Full throttle off the apex without even a twitch. I also added Mooge HD rear sway bar linkages and bushings to round out that days modding and detail work. I can honestly say and swear that the car feels like a different animal.. Extremely predictable and a very smooth quiet tire. Pro's I'd say have to be the unbelievable stickiness. Con's I'll be throwing them away most likely by summers end. But for the price I'll buy them again for next summer..

**ntimid8r** · 05-27-2010, 09:06 AM

Staggered tires (front to rear) is more of a sports car thingy. High hp motors, lighter chassis than a sedan, need lots of steering capability and also need max traction to the rear tires.

Equal size tires all the way around are more for sedan and oval track racing. They don't need as much steering input and don't really need huge tires in the back as once they're rolling....they're rolling. Also equal size tires make life and costs simpler for the average car owner for rotating and replacing tires and wheels.

**Smittro** · 05-27-2010, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by ntimid8r

Staggered tires (front to rear) is more of a sports car thingy. High hp motors, lighter chassis than a sedan, need lots of steering capability and also need max traction to the rear tires.

Equal size tires all the way around are more for sedan and oval track racing. They don't need as much steering input and don't really need huge tires in the back as once they're rolling....they're rolling. Also equal size tires make life and costs simpler for the average car owner for rotating and replacing tires and wheels.

I see. I've tried staggered tires on my other Camaros years past. Can't say I liked them. I understand what you're saying about rotating and replacing. That was'nt the reason for my purchase tho. I can see staggered tires and wheels on indy, F1, nascar what have you. I don't see a need for it on a street car tho except for looks.. Don't flame me, you guys like what you like I likes what I likes.. Sharp corners have no effect on my setup, very stable even in the tight corners for a live axle..

My z34 is fully indepentant and just about any "sport" tire works well for cornering..

**shady milkman** · 05-27-2010, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Smittro

I see. I've tried staggered tires on my other Camaros years past. Can't say I liked them. I understand what you're saying about rotating and replacing. That was'nt the reason for my purchase tho. I can see staggered tires and wheels on indy, F1, nascar what have you. I don't see a need for it on a street car tho except for looks.. Don't flame me, you guys what you like I likes what I likes.. Sharp corners have no effect on my setup, very stable even in the tight corners for a live axle..

My z34 is fully indepentant and just about any "sport" tire works well for cornering..

corvettes have been doing it for over a decade.

i run staggered too by the way

**ntimid8r** · 05-27-2010, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Smittro

I see. I've tried staggered tires on my other Camaros years past. Can't say I liked them. I understand what you're saying about rotating and replacing. That was'nt the reason for my purchase tho. I can see staggered tires and wheels on indy, F1, nascar what have you. I don't see a need for it on a street car tho except for looks.. Don't flame me, you guys like what you like I likes what I likes.. Sharp corners have no effect on my setup, very stable even in the tight corners for a live axle..

My z34 is fully indepentant and just about any "sport" tire works well for cornering..

Most everyone is going to do it for looks if they're just driving on the street. The guys who are heavy into autox.....they have a different agenda and I'm sure they run normal street tires then throw on some other set for the track.

Staggered wheels and tires gives an impression stance.

**shady milkman** · 05-27-2010, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by ntimid8r

Most everyone is going to do it for looks if they're just driving on the street. The guys who are heavy into autox.....they have a different agenda and I'm sure they run normal street tires then throw on some other set for the track.

Staggered wheels and tires gives an impression stance.

a big thing about running a staggered set up is that it upsets the braking bias of our cars ....have large tires on the back give it more grip which helps improve braking in the rear..well stock our rears are fine..almost too good ...so if people get lightweight wheels and run a larger tire in the back it can make the car more squirrel during moderate to heavy braking ..

now personally since i went to my staggered setup my braking feels heavier and not as crisp or responsive ....most likely due to my heavy TTMs ..but none the less i basically went with staggered for looks .

**Smittro** · 05-27-2010, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

corvettes have been doing it for over a decade.

i run staggered too by the way

I gotcha. But a Corvette is a different animal too.. You prolly went better compound tire than stock I'm guessing.. That has a lot to do with your handling too.

Originally Posted by ntimid8r

Most everyone is going to do it for looks if they're just driving on the street. The guys who are heavy into autox.....they have a different agenda and I'm sure they run normal street tires then throw on some other set for the track.

Staggered wheels and tires gives an impression stance.

Okay.. Thanks. I do it for the G's

.. But I think they look good too tho..Just my oppy tho.. I find also that it's the tire compound that makes the real difference, more so than the actual width.. But I don't drag race either.

**ntimid8r** · 05-27-2010, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

a big thing about running a staggered set up is that it upsets the braking bias of our cars ....have large tires on the back give it more grip which helps improve braking in the rear..well stock our rears are fine..almost too good ...so if people get lightweight wheels and run a larger tire in the back it can make the car more squirrel during moderate to heavy braking ..

now personally since i went to my staggered setup my braking feels heavier and not as crisp or responsive ....most likely due to my heavy TTMs ..but none the less i basically went with staggered for looks .

Well I can't agree that the staggering is causing brake bias issues....that's caused by weight. Rear brakes are only using about 25%-30% of the overall braking. If the front tires are too skinny then you'll lose stopping grip. A heavier car obviously is going to take more time to react to the direction you're wanting it to go in.

But as with your car and having heavier wheels than stock (or what the car was designed for it's braking power)....yes you'll have "sluggish" brake response.