Waxing faq's and unknowns

[zwaldo]

since detailing cars is kinda a job for me, (I work part time for a small local car lot that deals with classic cars) I have researched several things about it. I wanted to post a few links of where you can find some really good faq's, but i'm going to copy and paste from them things that I learned, or things i've read on here that people have asked about. Hope this gets the ball rolling and would love to have others add their 2 cents.

OH, and i'm new here, so just let me know if my posting becomes a bit excessive...I mean, I have a lot of info to share, and questions to ask. Just don't wana be known as the "pain in the ace new guy."
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http://turtlewax.com/

you have to click faq's.
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Q: How many coats of wax/polish should I apply ... will additional coats provide better protection?
A: Applying additional coats of wax at one time is not necessary, however, a second coat may assure protection in the areas you may have missed. A second coat of wax will add shine to older finishes. We consider regular, average car care to include applying a coat of wax 3-4 times a year. Remember, today's harsh environmental factors require more frequent waxing, especially if your vehicle is highly exposed to these conditions.

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Q: What is the difference between a wax and a polish?
A: The terms wax and polish are used interchangeably today. Most waxes and polishes contain some mild cleaning agents (safe for clear coat finishes) which remove old wax, minor scratches and everyday oxidation. All polish and wax products clean, shine and protect, unless otherwise stated on the label. A polishing compound or compound will clean and shine only. As always recommended, test a small inconspicuous area and always follow the back label instructions.
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Q: In general, how long will a shine last?
A: A shine will last three to four months. Protection can last up to a year, depending on the product applied.
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Q: What is the difference between a polymer and a silicone?
A: There are many types of polymers used in car wax. Polymers usually provide durability and/or seal the automotive paint from environmental etching. Silicones are ingredients to improve shine.
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Q: Can your wax/polish products be used on a fiberglass surface?
A: Fiberglass is coated with a "gel" coat which reinforces the fiberglass material. This resin is similar to paint and is susceptible to oxidation, scratches, stains, and normal environmental etching. We recommend applying Turtle Wax® F-21 regularly to fiberglass gel coats (4 times a year) to maintain gel coat cleanliness, shine, and protection.
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Q: Why the different brands of car wax from Turtle Wax? Don't they all work the same?
A: Generally all automotive wax and polish products, clean, shine and protect automotive paint in one step. The age of the vehicle, the needs of the finish, and the desire of the consumer, dictates which product or brand to use. Regular car care is key to prolonging the shine of today’s vehicle’s finishes.

Turtle Wax Super Hard Shell Car Wax provides long lasting traditional shine and protection to any automotive finish. It’s a well trusted brand that will work well on a variety of finishes and in many temperature conditions.
Turtle Wax Carnauba Car Wax is based on the original Super Hard Shell formula. It provides a durable long lasting shine, carnauba wax protection, and has a rich vanilla scent.
F-21 Car Polish with Nanotechnology is a high tech formula, containing urethane polymer for long lasting shine, durability, and protection. Nanotechnology magnifies polymer shine and UV protection. One application can last up to a year.
Platinum Series Ultra Gloss Car Wax is a premium wax that provides the ultimate experience in reflectivity, shine, and protection. High refractive index polymers provide ultimate shine and protection. Platinum Series Ultra Gloss Car Wax is the perfect car wax that will meet the expectations of the most critical auto enthusiast. It’s perfect for regular use on today’s custom or new car finishes, to maintain a world class shine.

[zwaldo]

Great information from meguiars

http://www.meguiars.com/faq/index.cfm?faqCat=General%20Questions&faqQuestionID=14&section=_14#_14

12. Are multiple coats of wax beneficial? (Layering)

That depends on what effect you are looking for: protection or beauty.

Protection

If your looking for the maximum protection possible, then one or two thin coats of wax, maybe even up to three thin coats of wax, has the potential to create the most surface protection depending on the wax, the surface itself and whether or not sufficient time has passed in-between each application. Of course the law of diminishing returns states that you will not create exponentially greater layers of protection with each application, but Meguiar's knows that a second, and sometimes third application will insure uniform, thorough coverage over the majority of the surface, thus maximizing the protection.

Environmental conditions today demand more frequent washing and waxing in order to prevent costly damage to the outer layers of paint. Just as important as a second, and possibly a third coating of wax is to provide the maximum amount of protection in any one detailing session, (especially on the horizontal surfaces), it is also vitally important that you wax more often to maintain your finish. This is especially true if your car is a daily driver exposed to the elements and parked outdoors most of the time.

Beauty

Will more coats of a product make a finish deeper, darker, and wetter looking with each additional application?

In a word: Possibly

Generally speaking, when trying to take your car's finish to its maximum potential for clarity, gloss, shine and depth of color, there comes a point, or a plateau, that you will reach whereupon additional applications of either polish or wax will not increase the results of any of those categories. Of course, you are more apt to reach this plateau if your skill level is high and if the quality of your products is also very high.

These assumptions also assume that the surface in question is on

A brand new car
A car with a brand new paint job
An older car whose finish has been well maintained and is in excellent condition
An older car whose finish has been professional restored to excellent condition
If any of the above holds true, then you will most certainly hit the wall, so to speak, reaching that plateau of perfection whereby further applications will not improve the results of the previously applied coating. Your finish will have reached its maximum potential in appearance value.

After time goes by and this plateau you have previously reached begins to diminish, you can restore the paint to it's maximum potential again, quickly and easily by simply applying a new coat of the right wax or polish. This maintenance procedure will only act to restore the finish back to it's maximum potential and shouldn't be positioned, or confused with making your surface deeper, darker, shinier, etc. than it's maximum potential.

Once you hit 100% max potential, (or that plateau), it's time to stand back and admire the results, not continue to apply more and more coats.

Special Note: Ideas suggesting that repeated applications of a product will continue to increase optic clarity and gloss and protection are misleading you and your own common sense should enable you to understand that a finish, whether black, red, single-stage, clear coat, etc. has a limit to how perfect it can become.

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13. Can Meguiar's waxes be "Layered"?


Meguiar's waxes can be layered, but two things must be tended to when layering waxes. 1) You must use the right waxes ("Layerable" waxes), and 2) You must recognize that at some point, "The Law of Diminishing Returns" takes effect.

Layerable waxes

A Layerable wax, is a wax that the protective ingredients used in the formula (natural and synthetic), are such that the protective layer left behind will not only adhere to the paint, but in subsequent applications, will adhere to itself. It also means that the carrying agents, be they solvent, water or something else, cannot be strong enough or in high enough concentrations to re-liquefy the previously applied layer, thus removing it during your attempt to add another layer.

Layerable waxes are primarily pure waxes, or protectants (as synthetic formulas are referred to) that do not contain chemical cleaners, or solvents that will remove the previous layer.

There is an exception to this rule and that is that it is possible to first apply a cleaner wax, and then apply a pure wax or pure synthetic over it.

The Law of Diminishing Returns

(Thomas Malthus "Essay on the Principle of Population" published in 1798.)

While this theory is generally used to discuss topics as they relate to the areas of economics and politics, it is a model that can also be used to explain in this case, the complex action occurring at the microscopic level on the surface of your car's finish.

The law of diminishing returns as it relates to layering,

A surface, such as an automotive paint, can only hold so much product before all you're doing is removing all subsequent coatings applied to the surface.

That is to say, after the first, second and in some cases a third application/coating, any more product applied to the surface is merely removed when you wipe the excess off after waiting for the product to cure.

At this point you've reached a plateau (or limit), as to how much wax (natural or synthetic) a surface can hold. Once you reach this plateau, all further applications of wax simply become excess that will be removed (and thus wasted), during wipe-off because it has nowhere to attach and layer.

Of course, this all depends upon your definition of the word "Layer".

If your definition of the word layer follows that of Webster's Dictionary:

2 a: One thickness, course, or fold, laid or lying over or under another
Then yes, you can layer to a certain point. For example, you can add multiple layers of layerable waxes until the limit to how much a given surface of an automotive paint can hold before each additional application is simply removed, or replaces a previously applied layer.

You cannot layer to the point of developing a measurable film-build without negatively affecting, or diminishing to some degree, the shine, optical clarity, gloss, reflectivity, depth of color etc. This is especially true if the product you're applying is not clear (in and of itself) to start with.

If your definition of the word "layer" follows that of definition used by some on the Internet,

Layer 1: To continually build a greater level of protection with each additional application, or layer, of a wax or protectant. (Natural or synthetic)

Layer 2: To continually increase shine, optical clarity, gloss, reflectivity, depth of color without end and/or after a plateau, or point of maximum potential has been achieved.
Then no, you cannot layer a wax, synthetic, natural, or otherwise.

[MadSeason]

Nice Research, Added a Sticky

[willie52]

very cool thanks

[barnat]

Dude, looked very educational but with myADD i didnt get past line 5 .But the only thing i can add is ,out of my 38 years of life the best wax ive come across to date with the less amount of sweat and best results is Eagle Ones Nano wax this stuff makes swerll marks a thing of the past, really brings out that deep rich color on darker paints without all that white powder residue. The only down fall is that it doesnt seem to last as long as a good wax job.But for us guys trying to rush home after work that FRI or SAT and hit the cruises, this shit is the bomb,i bet i can do the entire car in 20 to 25 min and looking like i just had it detailed thanks guys

[andremvp13]

How much will it cost for products to clean and wax car. I also need to take away fine scratches?

[sfletch2000]

Consumer Reports did a test on waxes, i was disappointed because while they inluded most major brands mothers was not one of them and thats what i use. I can tell you more expensive is not necesarily better you'll be surprised with what the top rated waxes are.