Lost to a ws6 m6 today =(

**smkn gts** · 03-16-2010, 07:00 PM

So today a buddy of mine and I went racing on the highway.

My car is a 98 trans am with a ram air hood basically stock with a custom 3in exhaust headers back with 1 cut off and magnaflow exhaust. I also have a slp lid and k&n filter. His car has been reverted back to stock from a 10 second ws6 because he figured he was going to sell the car. his ws6 really is completely stock other than a k&n filter and a short shifter he said he used to run hp tuners but idk if that makes a difference after the dramatic change going back to stock. Mine is automatic and his is a manual 6speed. We mainly raced from a 50 roll down the highway and everytime it seemed the same until he shifted into a higher gear. during perhaps 5-6 gear he would put a car on me like i was standing still and that was about it. we raced 4 times and he put about 1-2 car lengths on me each time. We did race 1 time from a stop and i shot ahead of him because he couldnt get traction while mine did. thanks to the brand new 275 g force tires on there. Now im sitting here pretty frustrated.. after all that money in exhaust im not sure if the 3in was a great idea because im not making enough power and i got next to know back pressure i bet. I plan to send the pcm to frost to see if that makes the difference but other than that without headers im gettin slapped around pretty good by just a stock m6 =(

**35th-ANV-SS** · 03-16-2010, 07:12 PM

That doesn't surprise me at all. He was probably in 3rd gear at a higher RPM than you to begin with, thus in the power band sooner than your auto. An M6 has lower gears than your auto also, which is an advantage to him until he reaches overdrive most likely.

**smkn gts** · 03-16-2010, 07:14 PM

would that change in a quarter mile? because that wasnt even fun.. what would i do to fix that? im thinking when i send it to frost im going to have him change my shift point to 6500 is he can

**35th-ANV-SS** · 03-16-2010, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by smkn gts

would that change in a quarter mile? because that wasnt even fun.. what would i do to fix that? im thinking when i send it to frost im going to have him change my shift point to 6500 is he can

Your peak power is at about 5500, so changing your shift point would be deemed useless. Plus, you don't want to be changing that without other modifications.

What you could do though is have Frost delete your torque management, which would free up some torque during shifts. A tune with exhaust, headers, and a lid will definitely squeeze out some more ponies.

**smkn gts** · 03-16-2010, 07:20 PM

well i got the exhaust and lid and im gettin the tune but i wouldnt know how to install headers and the labor alone on a job like that is 500 bucks and i just dont seem to have that this year!

**Baluchitherium** · 03-16-2010, 07:22 PM

There are all kinds of variables that can be going on here man... Especially as these cars get older,nothing lasts forever and performance can start to go down.

Also stock to stock if he has an 01' 02',he already has a little bit up on you by having a better intake and different cam if I'm not mistaken. M6's have 3.42s standard while A4s have 2.73s or optional 3.23s stock.So if his launches are good,he is probably getting you off the line a bit as well.

I would also make sure that your TA is running tip top... full tune up.

My brother's 98' was always a strong car but,it never felt quite as quick as the 98' I use to have.We later changed the fuel pump while trying to fix a lazy start problem and not only did it fix the starting prob but,the car felt TONS stronger.The car pulled HARD (for stock) after the new fuel pump.

Anyways,just start with the basics,make sure the car is in a good state of tune (plugs,filters no codes for lean conditions or misfires...etc...

Then start looking into the deeper stuff...

Also possible that maybe your friend's TA is not as stock as you think??

**35th-ANV-SS** · 03-16-2010, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by smkn gts

well i got the exhaust and lid and im gettin the tune but i wouldnt know how to install headers and the labor alone on a job like that is 500 bucks and i just dont seem to have that this year!

Install the headers before you get a tune. With a friend helping, it's not that bad of a job. You can knock it out in an afternoon, even being a rookie.

**Baluchitherium** · 03-16-2010, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by smkn gts

well i got the exhaust and lid and im gettin the tune but i wouldnt know how to install headers and the labor alone on a job like that is 500 bucks and i just dont seem to have that this year!

$500?? Ouch! They usually charge about $300 or less here for an install.More if they have to fab up a Y for you of course.

35th-ANV-SS as some good advice man,I wouldn't start getting too crazy with the tune yet...

**smkn gts** · 03-16-2010, 07:31 PM

Currently i have a custom y pipe on there but some people dont recommend the 3in exhaust! even if i could figure out how to install those headers i think id be gettin in over my head.. plus i would have to have them redo my exhaust but i would save 500 bucks in labor if i could find someone who can help me out

As for tuning the car up with new plugs and wires, that was probably next on my list considering they are probably the orginal plugs and wires to begin with! I really would rather not replace the fuel pump but if need be i will in the future! his car is a 2000 while mine is the 98, i heard 98s have the most problems being that they are the first year for ls1's pontiac fixed many of the weaker engine components in the later 99+ models.. also do either of you know a way to see what gear i have in the back of my car? my dad swears its the 323 but i bet its the 273. His ws6 is definately faster than i expected but i hope the good tune by frost would help

**smkn gts** · 03-16-2010, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Baluchitherium

$500?? Ouch! They usually charge about $300 or less here for an install.More if they have to fab up a Y for you of course.

35th-ANV-SS as some good advice man,I wouldn't start getting too crazy with the tune yet...

I figure 125 bucks for some extra hp and a better running car is worth it! not to big of a loss and when i do get headers ill just send it back! Frost seems like the best deal around and so many people swear by him that i dont think i can go wrong

**35th-ANV-SS** · 03-16-2010, 07:39 PM

If you haven't already, you might want to start with a basic tune-up yourself to see if it helps.

-New wires
-New plugs
-New air filter, or clean yours
-New fuel filter
-Clean your MAF with CRC MAF Cleaner

You can tell what gear you have by your RPO code...assuming it is stock and a previous owner never changed it.

**Baluchitherium** · 03-16-2010, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by smkn gts

Currently i have a custom y pipe on there but some people dont recommend the 3in exhaust! even if i could figure out how to install those headers i think id be gettin in over my head.. plus i would have to have them redo my exhaust but i would save 500 bucks in labor if i could find someone who can help me out

As for tuning the car up with new plugs and wires, that was probably next on my list considering they are probably the orginal plugs and wires to begin with! I really would rather not replace the fuel pump but if need be i will in the future! his car is a 2000 while mine is the 98, i heard 98s have the most problems being that they are the first year for ls1's pontiac fixed many of the weaker engine components in the later 99+ models.. also do either of you know a way to see what gear i have in the back of my car? my dad swears its the 323 but i bet its the 273. His ws6 is definately faster than i expected but i hope the good tune by frost would help

Check the RPO codes on the inside of your door jam.

GU2 = 2.73s
GU5 = 3.23s
GU6 = 3.42s (on M6 cars)

Just read up ALOT... every chance you get about header installs and you will gain the confidence to do it yourself man.. nothing feels better than doing it yourself and having that freedom from having to have other people work on your car.Headers,tune ups....everything.Just always be safe,have patience and do your homework.Back in my time ( I sound like my Dad!) we didn't have the internet and the "Google Gods" to ask questions! Use it! Cherish it!! hahaha

**smkn gts** · 03-16-2010, 07:48 PM

yeah ill have to check which gear i have but i assume the 273.. maybe i should convert to a 410 for an edge lol but buh bye gas mileage and i have no idea what an RPO number is and how would i tell? does it have the size of the gear in the number?

**35th-ANV-SS** · 03-16-2010, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by smkn gts

yeah ill have to check which gear i have but i assume the 273.. maybe i should convert to a 410 for an edge lol but buh bye gas mileage and i have no idea what an RPO number is and how would i tell? does it have the size of the gear in the number?

Whatever you do, DO NOT put a 4.10/4.11 gear in your auto

**35th-ANV-SS** · 03-16-2010, 07:52 PM

You don't like Google huh?

Here is what it looks like.

**smkn gts** · 03-16-2010, 07:59 PM

lol yeah i just went outside to check! i got a 323... idk im just going to bide my time and wait until i can buy me a 10 second ws6 lol... losing today put me in a slump!! but im definately going to change my plugs and wires next!

**35th-ANV-SS** · 03-16-2010, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by smkn gts

lol yeah i just went outside to check! i got a 323... idk im just going to bide my time and wait until i can buy me a 10 second ws6 lol... losing today put me in a slump!! but im definately going to change my plugs and wires next!

Don't get too down on yourself...there will ALWAYS be someone faster than you...even with a 10s WS6.

If you really want to get fast quick, get a stall for your car. It's the single best mod you can do for an auto.

Good luck.

**az gt eater** · 03-16-2010, 08:07 PM

ok, now i went and looked at mine, and it says both ws6 and ws9 in the RPO codes. What's up with that? oh, and i got 3.42's

**smkn gts** · 03-16-2010, 08:09 PM

how much is a stall converter and wouldnt that mess up my daily driving pretty bad?

**Baluchitherium** · 03-16-2010, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by smkn gts

lol yeah i just went outside to check! i got a 323... idk im just going to bide my time and wait until i can buy me a 10 second ws6 lol... losing today put me in a slump!! but im definately going to change my plugs and wires next!

With enough money and knowledge you can turn almost anything into a 9 pr 10 second 1/4 mile monster... but,first things first.Start with the basics and work your way up.

Besides,even if you had a 10sec WS6 right now,do you feel YOU are ready for it? Not trying to dog on you at all but you sound a little new to LS1s and maybe mechanic work in general so I'm only trying to help you out when I say,you don't start from the top,you start from the bottom just like all of us.

Believe me I have ALOT to learn but you have to relax and enjoy the process and don't get too caught up in being faster than the other guy.

Relax and enjoy the TA you have now and learn with it.Wether you have it 10 yrs from now or a 10 sec WS6 or just a regular daily driver car,you will learn things that are applicable to just about all cars.

Good luck man and enjoy that TA! Any pics?