best birds of all generations

**02transamce** · 03-01-2010, 06:20 PM

ok,here we go,

1st gen: 69 trans am... clearly this was the best first gen.

2nd gen:78 trans am black s/e (bandit edition)... hard to decide,but with the success of the movie and the fact the 78 model year was the best sales year ever for the firebird,the choice is clear.

3rd gen:89 trans am turbo indy pace car... far and away the best third gen.

4th gen:99 trans am 30th anniversary edition...three words-blue damn wheels.

submitted for your approval.

**justinmc978** · 03-01-2010, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by 02transamce

ok,here we go,

1st gen: 69 trans am... clearly this was the best first gen.

2nd gen:78 trans am black s/e (bandit edition)... hard to decide,but with the success of the movie and the fact the 78 model year was the best sales year ever for the firebird,the choice is clear.

3rd gen:89 trans am turbo indy pace car... far and away the best third gen.

4th gen:99 trans am 30th anniversary edition...three words-blue damn wheels.

submitted for your approval.

sorry early 2nd gen (70-73) ftw.

**02transamce** · 03-01-2010, 06:43 PM

those were very cool and much faster than the bandit cars,but the 78 was the game changer for the firebird,anyone remember the 78 camaro?

**BirdCountry02** · 03-01-2010, 07:15 PM

I'd personally say 1st gen: 68 firebird. I'm partial to the earlier years, they resemble same year Goats and those years are my favorite muscle cars from the 60's. The front ends are plain mean, but thats my opinion. 4th gen: Any year 98-02 black WS.6. As good as the scheme is on the 30th anniversary, I think the black WS.6's still hold the meanest looking and it's not even a special edition. This is my opinion on this as well, but to me they can't be beat. Black is just sinister on these cars

**Pony_Eater** · 03-01-2010, 07:32 PM

2nd gen can be divided i think...lower years 70-74 .....and 77-79....personally i love the 70 ram air but i own a 79 tenth anniversary and thats awesome too

**Mr. Luos** · 03-01-2010, 07:34 PM

For 4th gens....

This is my cars hero!!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXu6BXT9Q8[/ame]

**ls1camino** · 03-01-2010, 07:49 PM

First Gen: Yeah the only TA was '69.
Second Gen: 70-73 was much better looking and more powerful.
Third Gens: GTA > Turbo TA
Fourth Gens: 30th Annys and CETAs were both works of art, imo.

**goof4080** · 03-01-2010, 08:39 PM

1st gen: 69 ...(personally i'd rather have a 67 SS non-RS camaro)

2nd gen: 70-73 (and I own a 79...)

3rd gen: 91-92 T/A verts (best lines on any 3rd gen were the verts, and the 91-92 t/a tail lights? awesome)

4th gen: 98-02 T/A WS6, although the Formy WS6 is growing on me..... (non ceta, sorry but i just don't like them)

**LS2GTO** · 03-01-2010, 09:48 PM

In terms of mass produce vehicles...

2nd gen would be any SD 455, Ram Air III Trans Am or Formula car.

3rd gen its hard to beat the Turbo Pacecar bird simply because of it's unique powerplant and limited numbers.

4th gen would be any Firehawk, 30th or CETA cars.

The 1st gen is a no brainer...it's the 1st Trans Am!

**NavyTATwo** · 03-02-2010, 03:25 AM

Never been a big fan of the 1st gen cars so I can't pick one. The 2nd would be a green '73 Super Duty, I had a green non SD from 1983 to 1984, it was the rarest color since it was made only for one year and didn't return until the late '80's. As for the 3rd gen, I would go with the Turbo, a great engine looking for a home, found in the T/A! The best 4th is a WS-6, black would be my choice of color.

Scott

**02transamce** · 03-02-2010, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by ls1camino

Third Gens: GTA > Turbo TA

the turbo trans am was a gta with the 3.8 turbo motor.

**jagfan93** · 03-02-2010, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by 02transamce

the turbo trans am was a gta with the 3.8 turbo motor.

Did turbo t/a use same setup as buick g/n?

**Zinergy** · 03-02-2010, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by ls1camino

First Gen: Yeah the only TA was '69.
Second Gen: 70-73 was much better looking and more powerful.
Third Gens: GTA > Turbo TA
Fourth Gens: 30th Annys and CETAs were both works of art, imo.

Ahhh not, the gta 5.7 was weak compared to the 3.8 turbo in the 89 t/A and they had the same body. Most people say the formula 5.0 5 speed was faster than the GTA 5.7 auto(they couldnt make a manual that could handle the 350s trq). And the 3.8 turbo was faster than both the 5.0 5 speed formula and 5.7liter GTA but with the good looks of the GTA. Like the GNs they were underrated and some claim to put down 240-270whp(300-320crank hp) and they were rated at 245crank hp.

**kheflw** · 03-02-2010, 02:58 PM

This cant go on without giving the 67 Firebird 400 its due. I remember reading way back when before I bought it. A review that said, the 67 differs from the 68 & 69 in a way that you either Love It or Hate It.

**9T8W66** · 03-02-2010, 04:03 PM

1st Gen
1968 Firebird 400 Ram Air II 4spd.

2nd Gen
1970 Trans Am Ram Air IV (RPO LS1) in Lucerne Blue (only 25 0f the 88 LS1 T/A's were blue)

3rd gen
1991 Formula Firehawk w/full competition pkg.

4th Gen
1 of the 2 1998 Formula WS6 convertibles.

**justinmc978** · 03-02-2010, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by kheflw

This cant go on without giving the 67 Firebird 400 its due. I remember reading way back when before I bought it. A review that said, the 67 differs from the 68 & 69 in a way that you either Love It or Hate It.

Love it. 400 vert with a 4speed oh man what i'd do.

Originally Posted by 9T8W66

1st Gen

4th Gen
1 of the 2 1998 Formula WS6 convertibles.

agreed, there were only 2 formy verts made in '98, i knew that. were they both WS6's?

**02transamce** · 03-03-2010, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by jagfan93

Did turbo t/a use same setup as buick g/n?

i think they had to use fwd 3800 heads for some reason,clearance issue probably but the block and turbo was the same as a GN.

**Smittro** · 03-03-2010, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by 02transamce

i think they had to use fwd 3800 heads for some reason,clearance issue probably but the block and turbo was the same as a GN.

As far as I can recall there's no difference between the fwd and rwd heads from the era.. Most of the changes that were made were for areas of reliability.. Though the 231 from tha time of the GN was just a buick 350 with two cyliders chopped off..
Drastic changes to the 3.8L did'nt come till the intro of the series I-II dubbed the 3800.. Which is actually 3700 and some change cc's.. The 3800 n/a could have been just as powerfull as the stock GN turbo motors had GM desided to work their magic with them like they did when the 3.4L 60* TDC was introduced severly detuned... I could only imagine how a 3800 with a twin dual cam setup would run had GM desided to go that route with it...

**02transamce** · 03-03-2010, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Smittro

As far as I can recall there's no difference between the fwd and rwd heads from the era.. Most of the changes that were made were for areas of reliability.. Though the 231 from tha time of the GN was just a buick 350 with two cyliders chopped off..
Drastic changes to the 3.8L did'nt come till the intro of the series I-II dubbed the 3800.. Which is actually 3700 and some change cc's.. The 3800 n/a could have been just as powerfull as the stock GN turbo motors had GM desided to work their magic with them like they did when the 3.4L 60* TDC was introduced severly detuned... I could only imagine how a 3800 with a twin dual cam setup would run had GM desided to go that route with it...

yeah...no.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine#LD5

**Smittro** · 03-03-2010, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by 02transamce

yeah...no.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine#LD5

Yeah....no what? you did read the page right?..

No change in castings except for valve sizes.. The Doc is in...

In 1978, GM began to market the 231 as the 3.8 liter as metric engine sizes became common in the United States. The RPO Code was LD5, though California-emissions versions were called LC6. Starting in 1979, the engine was used in the front-wheel drive Buick Riviera, though still with a longitudinal mounting. Larger valves and better intake and exhaust boosted the power output for 1979.

A turbocharged version was introduced as the pace car at the 1976 Indianapolis 500, and a production turbo arrived in 1978. The turbo 3.8 received sequential fuel injection and distributorless ignition in 1984. In 1986 an air-to-air Garrett intercooler was added and the RPO Code became LC2. The LC2 engine has a bore of 3.80" and a stroke of 3.40". The respective horsepower ratings for 1986 & 1987 were 235 hp (175 kW) & 245 hp (183 kW). The limited production GNX benefitted from additional factory modifications such as a ceramic turbocharger, more efficient Garrett intercooler, low restriction exhaust system and revised programming which resulted in a 276 hp (206 kW) factory rating although it is widely known that the actual power was closer to 300 hp (222 kW).

The turbo 3.8 liter was used in the following vehicles:

1978-1987 Buick Regal Sport Coupe, T Type, Grand National and GNX
1978-1980 Buick LeSabre Sport Coupe
1979-1980 Buick Century Turbo Coupe
1979-1985 Buick Riviera S Type and T Type
1980-1981 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1989 Pontiac Trans Am Turbo
The turbocharged 1987 Buick Regal Grand National was called America's quickest automobile, and the model continues to be collected and appreciated today.

3.8 FWD
In mid-1984, the engine was modified for transverse-mounting in smaller, FWD vehicles, and equipped with multiport fuel injection (MPFI). This was updated to sequential fuel injection (SFI) in 1986, and initially produced in two forms, one with flat lifters (tappets), and the other with a roller camshaft and lifters. The latter was offered in various models through 1988. From 1986, the 3.8 had a distributorless ignition system and a revised, crankshaft-driven oil pump which eliminated a longstanding problem with pump housing wear and loss of prime.

Pre-Series I
[edit] LN3 Naturally Aspirated

An LN3 installed in a 1989 Pontiac Bonneville. This engine produced 165 hp (123 kW) and 220 lb·ft (298 N·m) of torque.The 3.8 L (3800 cc) LN3 was an engine produced by General Motors' Buick Division. Introduced in 1988, the 3800 LN3, would later be loosely considered the Pre-Series I, although the older 3.8 SFI (LG3) was still available that year in some models. Designated initially by VIN code C, the multiport fuel injected 3800 LN3 was a major redesign, featuring changes such as a balance shaft, on-center bore spacing, use of a 3x/18x crank-trigger system, and other improvements. This generation continued in use in several GM products into the 1990s. It produced 165 hp (123 kW) and 220 lb·ft (298 N·m). The LN3 is very closely related to the Series I L27 and Series I L67 Supercharged. In fact, supercharger-related hardware can be fitted to an LN3 without changing the cylinder heads (ECM reprogramming required). The L27 has a two piece, upper plenum intake and lower intake, the LN3 is all one piece

*cough* no mention of any drastic changes to the head castings between the rwd and the fwd of the era..

The Doc is out..