Stumbled across this! Pretty Cool

**SajoR** · 05-17-2010, 09:36 PM

So I came across this on YouTube, and being in school for engineering, had to take a look. Watched the whole thing and I thought it was a pretty ingenious design and concept. Wondering if anybody else has seen something like this before or if there are already transmissions that utilize this sort of design/concept.

Check it out:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6zE__J0YIU&feature=popt00us0b"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6zE__J0YIU&feature=popt00us0b[/ame]

Now what I was wondering after watching this is that it's obvious that the input side would receive it's power from the engine and output goes to the drivetrain, but what exactly would be responsible for powering the counter rotation of the top shaft if this were to be placed in vehicles? It seems it would need to be an electric motor to power the counter-shaft.

Obviously, this is done at very low speeds and on small scale, but on large scale and real world rotational speeds, is there an electric motor capable of handling such counter-rotation? Or would the counter-rotation be rigged up to the engine itself as well (he does mention a hybrid system)?

Let me know what you guys (and girls) think, ideas, thoughts or if you just couldn't care less lol.

**transamgirl89** · 05-17-2010, 09:42 PM

+1 for this guy! Sounds good but I would have to see it in a high hp car but the idea of less gears is ingenious. Less to replace and hopefully less shifting issues.

**Smittro** · 05-18-2010, 03:35 AM

Both shafts would prolly be driven by the motor/engine with a second variable drive system to control rotational speed of each.

The part they leave out (centrifical force) is all that off center rotational mass and the sort of cranking of the output shaft is going to vibrate itself to pieces @ say only a few thousand rpm's. Even if you submerg the entire mechanism in a fluid (say hydrolic) it will still want to vibrate out of control. This virbation or tendancy to "wobble" would eventually have system wide mechanical effects. Imho, you won't be seeing this for quite a while yet and I believe what I wrote is why you don't now..

**konigandy6** · 05-18-2010, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Smittro

Both shafts would prolly be driven by the motor/engine with a second variable drive system to control rotational speed of each.

The part they leave out (centrifical force) is all that off center rotational mass and the sort of cranking of the output shaft is going to vibrate itself to pieces @ say only a few thousand rpm's. Even if you submerg the entire mechanism in a fluid (say hydrolic) it will still want to vibrate out of control. This virbation or tendancy to "wobble" would eventually have system wide mechanical effects. Imho, you won't be seeing this for quite a while yet and I believe what I wrote is why you don't now..

Smitty it's too damn early for science!!!!

Cool video and concept though.

**Smittro** · 05-18-2010, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by konigandy6

Smitty it's too damn early for science!!!!

Cool video and concept though.

and agree..

**SajoR** · 05-18-2010, 01:23 PM

Haha it's all good smitty, I understand completely what you mean and I see exactly what you mean. I was thinking even if they do encase it to hold it steady from "wobble," that off-center rotational mass at higher rpms would still cause vibrations throughout the system as a whole.

Not saying it would be hard to dampen the vibrations and keep it from causing problems, but I'd like to see how they would do it and if it would be worth it, both long term and cost-effective.

**Smittro** · 05-18-2010, 04:20 PM

To me it basicly seems as though he invented a mechanicly (gear) driven version of a "hydro-static" transmission found in some aggrocultural equiptment and so forth..

**Lethal Z** · 05-18-2010, 05:14 PM

Interesting

**Smittro** · 05-18-2010, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by SajoR

Haha it's all good smitty, I understand completely what you mean and I see exactly what you mean. I was thinking even if they do encase it to hold it steady from "wobble," that off-center rotational mass at higher rpms would still cause vibrations throughout the system as a whole.

Not saying it would be hard to dampen the vibrations and keep it from causing problems, but I'd like to see how they would do it and if it would be worth it, both long term and cost-effective.

Yes I also think it would be relatively easy enough to counter the wobble effect.. By using an/or a series of counter balance shafts. But then you start to trade off balance for usable power. More mass to rotate the less usable power. Kinda like playing tug of war with efficientcy.. Although concievablely, with a 1 to 1 final drive, there is a possiblity of no maximum top speed. Only limit would be the maximum rpm of the motor or engine. This would obviously limit the internal combustion engine. Because as we know with any engine max rpm does not equal max power, rather the ladder. BUT with an electric motor the max output is/can be relative to max rpm. With an electric motor the possiblities are nearly endless. Some electric motors reutinely see constant rpm ranges exceeding 100,000 (not a typo, that's one hundred thousand) rpm...

That's where the limitless torque/power theory comes in,,, imho...

**Spikito** · 05-18-2010, 11:59 PM

so me it looks like that thing would only work at low RPMS...and have NO torque....

**F-my-body** · 05-19-2010, 12:07 AM

ya im thinkin low rpms and its gona be used in small vehicles like..golf carts...or forklifts...i dont knnow somthing like that

**Smittro** · 05-19-2010, 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by F-my-body

ya im thinkin low rpms and its gona be used in small vehicles like..golf carts...or forklifts...i dont knnow somthing like that

Yeah I am well familier with the exact electric motor he was using too. It's what is known as the Mabuchi (540. size) (22 turn/DC) electric (brush & com type) motor. It has a max rpm of 15,000+/-, and is commonly used in everything from cordless drills to power wheels for kids.. @ 15k rpm that mechanism would have walked right off the table imho that's the real reason why he was controlling the input speed

....... I have some high end 540 electric motors that run in the 52,000+ to 102,000+ rpm range. I'll bolt one to it and then we'll see some sh&t..

**Smittro** · 05-19-2010, 04:19 AM

Hey dude!, let me see that for a second..

**Smittro** · 05-19-2010, 10:29 AM

Not to mention you have "stepper" motors now a days without brushes far exceeding those rpms. Using a digital program to "fire" the magnetic fields, creates a relatively limitless rpm range. Relative because the only limit I see is the armature itself and whether it will withstand extreme rpms without flying apart.. Thank robotics for the advancements in electric motor tech.. One day we will be talking about the 1000hp brushless we upgraded to in our cars.. One day soon....imho After all your car is a robot... It is a heavy, highly mobile peice of equiptment, with an onboard management system, that is partially controlled by you with a direct electronic interface including manual controls....................