couple Q's

**NxLS1496** · 12-03-2005, 06:40 AM

this is my first post so i just want to say hi. i dont own an fbody yet but hopefully soon. just got a few questions.

my friend has an 02 z28 a4. it used to be a florida highway patrol car, he got it cheap at an auction with like 110k miles on it. he has pacesetter headers, ORY, flowmaster muffler, k&n fipk, !air, removed thermostat, removed front swaybar, and 285 bfg drag radials. my question is, last night (it was freezing ass cold by the way) at the track he ran a 12.9 at 108mph with a 2.05 60ft

is this normal? or is his car some kind of freak?

one last question, according to another friend of mine, who knows alot about camaros, claims that there are generations of ls1's and that a 98 would probably be the slowest one, is this right or is he just an idiot. thanks

5 ltr. beater · 12-03-2005, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by NxLS1496

this is my first post so i just want to say hi. i dont own an fbody yet but hopefully soon. just got a few questions.

my friend has an 02 z28 a4. it used to be a florida highway patrol car, he got it cheap at an auction with like 110k miles on it. he has pacesetter headers, ORY, flowmaster muffler, k&n fipk, !air, removed thermostat, removed front swaybar, and 285 bfg drag radials. my question is, last night (it was freezing ass cold by the way) at the track he ran a 12.9 at 108mph with a 2.05 60ft

is this normal? or is his car some kind of freak?

one last question, according to another friend of mine, who knows alot about camaros, claims that there are generations of ls1's and that a 98 would probably be the slowest one, is this right or is he just an idiot. thanks

no, your friends car is not a freak, those times are very achievable with those modifications and with those track conditions. especially with an auto.
As far as the 98 ls1's being the slowest, that's just someone's opinion. LS1's were built very similarly throughout the years. I believe the 98 LS1's have the higher flowing injectors (28lb injectors, 99+ got the 26 i beleive)
There is a link that explains the difference between each LS1 ever built thoughout the years.

**SeVeReDiStOrTiOn** · 12-03-2005, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by NxLS1496

this is my first post so i just want to say hi. i dont own an fbody yet but hopefully soon. just got a few questions.

my friend has an 02 z28 a4. it used to be a florida highway patrol car, he got it cheap at an auction with like 110k miles on it. he has pacesetter headers, ORY, flowmaster muffler, k&n fipk, !air, removed thermostat, removed front swaybar, and 285 bfg drag radials. my question is, last night (it was freezing ass cold by the way) at the track he ran a 12.9 at 108mph with a 2.05 60ft

is this normal? or is his car some kind of freak?

one last question, according to another friend of mine, who knows alot about camaros, claims that there are generations of ls1's and that a 98 would probably be the slowest one, is this right or is he just an idiot. thanks

Tell him to ditch the flowmaster, they flow like ass. Why did he remove the stat?

**TheBowTieBear** · 12-04-2005, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by SeVeReDiStOrTiOn

Tell him to ditch the flowmaster, they flow like ass. Why did he remove the stat?

what cereal box did you read that on?.....Flow masters by dsign are just open expansion chambers big empty cans with very little baffling, 3" inlet and 3" outlet= no restriction.....there is no restriction. the delta shapes in the flowmaster tune the exaust note and create low a presure area in the muffler to aid in scavaging

**Hurley711** · 12-04-2005, 05:41 AM

Actually from all that I've read on here and other sites, most LS1 owners are disappointed with the hp gains, or lack there of, with the FLowmaster CB on LS1 cars. Hooker, GMMG and Magnaflow are known to flow REAL well on our cars. Flowmaster does have a great sound to it, but as an example I dynoed an extra 22 hp with my cutout open over my Flowmaster muffler. I realize a cutout is going to Flow better, but 22 is a little extreme.

**TheBowTieBear** · 12-04-2005, 06:02 AM

i will agree that a 22hp gain is extreme, but there are many factors that may be contributing to that. location of the cut out, type of header you are using,(shorties v. mids v. longtubes) show big is your down pipe to the flowmaster? are you using the 3" inlet and the 2.5 outs? and of course your tune in the PCM...all of these things and more will contribute. typically with a cutout open you will see an 8 to 15 hp increase. again depending on alot of factors.

i ahve built race motors before that we dynoed with open exaust and then with flowmasters....after tuning the proper length of the down pipe we were picking up HP due to the reversion wave that the flowmaster set up between the header and the muffler.

**SeVeReDiStOrTiOn** · 12-04-2005, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by TheBowTieBear

what cereal box did you read that on

Cut a flowmaster open and find out why they call it a chambered muffler...nothing but restrictions in there. Cut open a maganflow and see why it's called a straight through design...and thanks for the smart ass comment noob. You answered your own question by mentioning the chambered design.

**SeVeReDiStOrTiOn** · 12-04-2005, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by TheBowTieBear

Flow masters by dsign are just open expansion chambers big empty cans with very little baffling, 3" inlet and 3" outlet= no restriction.....there is no restriction. the delta shapes in the flowmaster tune the exaust note and create low a presure area in the muffler to aid in scavaging

Oh and here's a few pics off my cereal box

Notice the difference in the design...wow, look at all that "no restriction" in the flowmaster...wow I want one. The bottom one is a magnaflow...flowmaster does sound good though, but flows like shit as stated above. I've had both...and noticed a difference up top with the MF.

Flowmaster

Magnaflow

**NxLS1496** · 12-05-2005, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by SeVeReDiStOrTiOn

Why did he remove the stat?

he said it makes the engine run colder all the time???? just a stupid free mod he found which i think was a waste of time.

**NxLS1496** · 12-05-2005, 08:21 AM

gonna have to side with severedistortion, love the way the flows sound but its common knowledge they flow like crap.

**oneBADDz** · 12-06-2005, 10:40 PM

No thermostat will run much much cooler, cooler makes more power as we all know.
The down side is it can take FOREVER to heat up in the winter, and as a daily driver you lose fuel economy running too cold. Not to mention when you run too cool you can, I'm not saying you will, but you can reduce engine life

**NxLS1496** · 12-08-2005, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by z_driver1

No thermostat will run much much cooler, cooler makes more power as we all know.
The down side is it can take FOREVER to heat up in the winter, and as a daily driver you lose fuel economy running too cold. Not to mention when you run too cool you can, I'm not saying you will, but you can reduce engine life

very cool thnx for the info!

5 ltr. beater · 12-10-2005, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by z_driver1

No thermostat will run much much cooler, cooler makes more power as we all know.
The down side is it can take FOREVER to heat up in the winter, and as a daily driver you lose fuel economy running too cold. Not to mention when you run too cool you can, I'm not saying you will, but you can reduce engine life

Unfortunately, that theory does not apply to the LS1. Our beloved LS1 is equipped with over 20+ different sensors that monitor air temp, exhaust temp, air density, coolant temp,fuel pressure, etc. etc. The ECU gathers info from all those sensors and decides how much fuel to dump. If the engine never warms up, the engine will always run in open loop and dump more fuel ( that means it runs rich and running rich kills performance), untill it reaches operating temp and go into closed loop (which it never will if there is no stat). Our engines our designed to run between 190 to 210 degrees for optimum fuel burning to pass emissions.
However, running @ those temps can kill some performance, so we can squeeze a few more ponies out by having the thermostat open a little sooner with the help of a lower temp. stat. That way our engines can still run in closed loop and avoid building up too much heat under the hood.
Dam rookies!!!

**oneBADDz** · 12-10-2005, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by 5 ltr. beater

Unfortunately, that theory does not apply to the LS1. Our beloved LS1 is equipped with over 20+ different sensors that monitor air temp, exhaust temp, air density, coolant temp,fuel pressure, etc. etc. The ECU gathers info from all those sensors and decides how much fuel to dump. If the engine never warms up, the engine will always run in open loop and dump more fuel ( that means it runs rich and running rich kills performance), untill it reaches operating temp and go into closed loop (which it never will if there is no stat). Our engines our designed to run between 190 to 210 degrees for optimum fuel burning to pass emissions.

Even without a thermostat the engine is going to warm up enough not to run open loop. The engine isn't going to "never warm up." Typically without a thermostat you will still run 150 degrees or so, unless you live in alaska or somewhere extreme. You have to remember also that these cars are equipped with electric fans, so even without a thermostat you aren't cooling constantly. 8 cylinders and a fairly high compression is very well sufficient to keep the engine warm enough to run closed loop. I'm not supporting running without a thermostat at all so don't take this the wrong way, I am against running without a thermostat 100%, I personally don't even care to go as low as 160 like many people do. There are many many better ways to make power.