All Motor...Big Power!?...but how?

**Rikki_SeVeN** · 05-24-2007, 01:29 PM

hey guys... well I've been wondering what would a Camaro with a Built 346ci LS1 do at the track...and HP and TQ wise... that is pretty much my dream for my Z28 A4... build the motor to the point where it gets the most power on its own...and then later throw in some FUN Juice (NOS)...(ofcourse with suspension to match)... well that's about it... just want to know... posible HP and TQ... and what would it take...how much cash... and such...

also...I'm in PR...so I'm pretty sure what ever Number you put up on price will probably be higher here by about 15%

...and it's very humid and the tracks don't grip right(think that changes what gears I have to run)

**danziger** · 05-25-2007, 03:03 AM

If you are staying all-motor, I would up the displacement. 402/408s are getting very reasonable in price and will put out 500rwhp easy with the right support and tune.

**Rikki_SeVeN** · 05-25-2007, 03:21 AM

hm...but I also still kinda wanna know what you get out of the 346ci... with out bore and stroke... (just to know)... the Car is a Daily driver... in heavy traffic...(sometimes)...the rest of the time it's all pretty clear drivin... so...it needs to stay on the road as much as posible...can't afford to have it be sitting for a month...

**danziger** · 05-25-2007, 07:29 AM

Well, I did 576rwhp/590rwtq on the stock bottom end with heads/cam, some bolt-ons and a 100shot of nitrous. N/A it put down 436/420 and could easily have been daily-driven, but I have a beater for that...

**Rikki_SeVeN** · 05-25-2007, 07:40 AM

that sounds awsome...and later...if the botom end is changed...would it make more hp?

**Rikki_SeVeN** · 05-25-2007, 07:52 AM

oh and... how fast did you go on that set up? 1/4mile

**danziger** · 05-26-2007, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rikki_SeVeN

that sounds awsome...and later...if the botom end is changed...would it make more hp?

Funny you should mention that... I now have an all-forged 383 stroker. It makes 470rwhp/458rwtq, but the LS6 intake/TB are probably costing me about 15rwhp. The torque is everywhere with a stroker, so don't just go by peak HP...

**danziger** · 05-26-2007, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Rikki_SeVeN

oh and... how fast did you go on that set up? 1/4mile

Heh. Won't ever know as I'm just now getting around to replacing the 10-bolt...

**shady milkman** · 05-26-2007, 09:52 AM

well if you want the most out of your stock engine...you wont be able just to throw on a blower or nos it...without a monster tune and running race fuel. because your compression ratio will be damn high and a blower or nos would just cause detonation. thats why you always hear people say they lower compression when they drop a blower or shoot nos. and also want a cam that is nos friendly. so if your going to go N/A route then n0s and a blower are actually out of the picture if you change the compression with heads ect.

**danziger** · 05-26-2007, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

well if you want the most out of your stock engine...you wont be able just to throw on a blower or nos it...without a monster tune and running race fuel. because your compression ratio will be damn high and a blower or nos would just cause misfires. thats why you always hear people say they lower compression when they drop a blower or shoot nos. and also want a cam that is nos friendly. so if your going to go N/A route then n0s and a blower are actually out of the picture if you change the compression with heads ect.

Uh, you can run plenty of nitrous on the factory short-block with pump-gas. Ask me how I know... I also think you are confusing "misfires" with detonation, or pre-ignition. I'm not trying to be a jackass...I just want good info passed.

**Rikki_SeVeN** · 05-26-2007, 10:04 AM

yeah...I've always heard/read that LS1's will hold 100shot on stock trim...and a properly built one can hold 200+... but not with stock internals...

**shady milkman** · 05-26-2007, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by danziger

Uh, you can run plenty of nitrous on the factory short-block with pump-gas. Ask me how I know... I also think you are confusing "misfires" with detonation, or pre-ignition. I'm not trying to be a jackass...I just want good info passed.

yea my fualt i did mean detonation.. yea but your compression ..your heads and shit are still stock..i know you can run alot of juice on a stock ls1...but he said he wants to build up the engine as much as possible (n/a) and then maybe throw a blower or some juice....so that would include heads which could and if you want the most..would raise the compression...so that wouldnt make it near a stock block. so thanks for that misfire thing..i didnt even realize that. but i am still correct and you are misplaced since he never talked about just throwing some juice in a stock engine.

**danziger** · 05-26-2007, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Rikki_SeVeN

yeah...I've always heard/read that LS1's will hold 100shot on stock trim...and a properly built one can hold 200+... but not with stock internals...

I personally know a guy in FL that is running a 225 shot on a near stock 1998 Z28. He has upgraded his fuel pump, and intake/exhaust. Been running it like that for a few years and has made some decent money winning races. Would I suggest that to everyone? No. But my personal feeling is that with some simple precautions a stock LS1 will handle a 150-175shot no problem. With a dedicated nitrous-motor LSx, 300-400shots are possible, but most guys will run two-stages at that point...

**Rikki_SeVeN** · 05-26-2007, 10:10 AM

I think though... I wouldn't really get difrent heads...unless they would make THAT much of a drifrence...

**danziger** · 05-26-2007, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

yea my fualt i did mean detonation.. yea but your compression ..your heads and shit are still stock..i know you can run alot of juice on a stock ls1...but he said he wants to build up the engine as much as possible (n/a) and then maybe throw a blower or some juice....so that would include heads which could and if you want the most..would raise the compression...so that wouldnt make it near a stock block. so thanks for that misfire thing..i didnt even realize that. but i am still correct and you are misplaced since he never talked about just throwing some juice in a stock engine.

It's all good, but I have personally run a heads/cam/100shot to the tune of 576/590 on pump gas with a basic tune, so maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say...

**danziger** · 05-26-2007, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Rikki_SeVeN

I think though... I wouldn't really get difrent heads...unless they would make THAT much of a drifrence...

Depends on the heads...

**shady milkman** · 05-26-2007, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by danziger

I personally know a guy in FL that is running a 225 shot on a near stock 1998 Z28. He has upgraded his fuel pump, and intake/exhaust. Been running it like that for a few years and has made some decent money winning races. Would I suggest that to everyone? No. But my personal feeling is that with some simple precautions a stock LS1 will handle a 150-175shot no problem. With a dedicated nitrous-motor LSx, 300-400shots are possible, but most guys will run two-stages at that point...

i know man. i am not arguing that. yes a stock block and a near stock ..intake and headers ect will still handle nos well becuase they dont change the stock 10:1 compression ratio but with heads ect that number is going to change higher and will limit any use of a blower or n0s. once again i think we are on different pages. if he changes out heads and puts a beefy cam that isnt n0s friendly with its timings ect then to use n0s or a blower will be pointless.

**shady milkman** · 05-26-2007, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by danziger

Depends on the heads...

but read this post..he wants the absolute most out of his engine (n/a) ..so that would be heads that raise the compression ratio.

**danziger** · 05-26-2007, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

i know man. i am not arguing that. yes a stock block and a near stock ..intake and headers ect will still handle nos well becuase they dont change the stock 10:1 compression ratio but with heads ect that number is going to change higher and will limit any use of a blower or n0s. once again i think we are on different pages. if he changes out heads and puts a beefy cam that isnt n0s friendly with its timings ect then to use n0s or a blower will be pointless.

I don't think we are on the same page, but no need to get upset. My HEADS/cam set-up was a shade above 10.75:1, but still loved a 100shot on pump gas. No trickery of crazy tuning and lots of other people spray their stock bottom-end, H/C packages. Dynamic compression and cylinder pressure will be the limiting factors. A blower is a different story entirely and I would never argue that a blower is very limited on a stock LSx. Please relax as I'm not "calling you out" or anything, just trying to share personal experience...

**danziger** · 05-26-2007, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by shady milkman

but read this post..he wants the absolute most out of his engine (n/a) ..so that would be heads that raise the compression ratio.

When I said "depends on the heads", I was referring to how much power they would add. A set of budget-ported 5.7s won't make half the power of a set of fully-worked AFR225s or ETPs, Darts, RHSs or any of the high-end heads.