Would this piss you off?

BIGRED Z · 03-03-2006, 11:50 PM

Long story short: looking to buy an LT1 95-97 TA as an extra. Checked Ebay out and found one that blue booked at about 6-7K based on WS6 package and mileage. The car had a reserve but wasn't listed. So I asked said owner the resreve, which was 4K over blue book.

When I asked him what his reserve was, and why his starting price was so much above book price...this is the reply I got.

The reserve is well over the Blue Book value. This is a one owner WS-6 car...........it only has 26 K miles and like any classic or classic to be it is priced accordingly. If you are just interested in an orginary Trans-Am at Blue Book value, you should find one and buy it. This wouldn't be the car for you!

I felt this repy was somewhat condescending, as if I didn't realize the difference between a TA and a ram air. I assured him I inputed all his data accurately and still came up with the private party value on blue book several thousand below what he was asking and if he added anything to the car that would increase it's value.

His reply:

You answered your own question....... not anything,,,, it's an all original car....... just the way you want a classic to be.... nothing added, no mods, mint condition....and I don't think you can use a blue book value on any vehicle on a car of this type or quality. Why don't you check NADA retail.......that's more in line with my reserve

Keep in mind, we're talking about a late 90's model, not last production year or anything...So anyway, this is the reply I sent back...was it out of line?

While I can empathize with your pride in your car, as I have that as well, I also have the cold hard praciticality of knowing that a cars' value is based on few factors.

As a buyer, I can appreciate the fact that having one owner is certainly a perk, but not one that adds actual dollar value to the pricing of a vehicle. When I did the blue book search on your car, your mileage was also included. Naturally, lower mileage is considered, and that dollar value of the car was included in the blue book assessment. Obviously our opinions differ on this subject as you have placed much more dollar value than your car is actually worth.

You mentioned that your car was a WS6 car. Please allow me to clarify that I know very well the difference between a standard TA and a ram air. So does blue book. Imagine that...

Simply stated, your car is only worth blue book. You have attatched an inflated value based on nothing more than the fact that you are the original owner.

You mentioned NADA retail. That, my friend is merely what a DEALER would ask, not a private seller. We all know dealers would bend you over and fuck you out of thousands as they smile and sell you a car, and leave most idiots drive off the lot feeling like they got the deal. Go figure. But alas, I'm not that kind of buyer.

Granted, you may just get someone who is uninformed to actually pay you your asking price. But make no mistake, those who know and appreciate F-bodies realize you are attempting to take advantage. Personally, I think that kinda sucks. But hey, I'm not you.

I belong to several F-body groups who appreciate, buy, sell, modify, race, rebuild, restore, drive, and most of all, look out for other F-body enthusiasts. We pride ourselves on fairness when selling our vehicles to others. I would have to say you would NOT be included among those ranks. Good luck on trying to fuck over someone else on a car that is much more worthy than its owner.

BIGRED Z
Just wanting opinions.

Lori

**91Z28** · 03-04-2006, 12:13 AM

He is asking too much, but people like us know better. More power to him if a sucker with a little bit of cash gives him 12k for the car.

BIGRED Z · 03-04-2006, 01:03 AM

Thanks for your reply. I know some folks who would blast me for my reply to this owner and call it "trolling" but I was genuinely interested in buying the car. I felt he was not asking a fair price and conveyed that quite succinctly according to his response to my queries.

I just think that if I were to sell my car right now, I would not ask much over book based on its few mods. Rarely do we ever recoup what we put into it, unless you have a friend buy it for what he knows it will do.

**DrMilhouse** · 03-04-2006, 02:35 AM

If you're interested in buying something like that and it has a reserve that is set way to high, let him figure it out for himself that he's got it too high. After he runs the auction and sees that he's not getting what he wants, he'll figure it out on his own. If he does get what he's wanting, more power to him. He's really just protecting himself more than anything I think. he doesn't want to get rid of the car, but if it comes to the point of someone giving him WAY More than it's worth, then he would take it for sure. Wouldn't you?

By the way, can we get some cliff notes?

**predator** · 03-04-2006, 05:53 AM

that is common place... do you really think 02 ws6's with 40k on the clock are worth $22k? its weird..... i can get an 02 vert CETA for around $25k with under 10k on it... for what it is its a fair price... Firehawks run around $23.5 with abourd 25k on the odo... but your average ws6.... yeah under 50k on the clock its between $19k and $24k....

i think it all comes down to ppl actually think collectors are looking at or something... but i have news for them... the #001 10th anny firehawk is up for sale... there is an LT4 firehawk for sale on the net... and i found a 91 or 92 (the bad ass one) for sale on the net all are priced about $25k... collectors dont want their run of the mill cars and arent going to pay that much for them...

welcome to my world ive ran into this alot...

-me

**Wayah-bird** · 03-04-2006, 06:13 AM

A 26K car is special and 'IF NEARLY PERFECT' deserves a few thousand over KBB. That is common knowledge among car collectors with F-bodies which I consider VERY SPECIAL. Just like any guide book, KBB or anyone else, including NADA, it is just a tool to help you come to a satisfactory conclusion. That car is probably a good buy if represented properly. We all know how difficult it is to find an unabused F-body. I would say 80% of the LT1/LS1 community drives their cars hard. If you want to sink a few grand into that type 'used' car it basically amounts to the same thing as this seller asking a few thousand over KBB. I personally don't like headaches and would want his. Others want to build theirs so it is a personal preference. Your reply to him was one that sounded like you took it personally. I did not see it that way. He can ask whatever he wants, and eventually he will get it. I just sold a similar ultra low mileage Lincoln LSC for a neighbor on ebay at $5,000 over KBB. Another one in Miami sold on ebay as well for the same price, just $200 difference, $14,900 vs $15,100. These cars are also special. When a car originally lists for around $30,000 or over and you can get it for less than half price with ultra low miles (and probably garage-kept) jump on it! The year model (sometimes) can be meaningless. You may be buying one of the finest cars of that year in the country! Again it is a personal decision and what you are looking for. Getting input from this community is very smart and I have already been helped several times since I have been a member asking for input. If you can use it, good, if not, let it go right out the other ear. Good luck in your search! You have earlier helped me out on one of my questions (when no one else answered) so I hope I have returned the favor. Dave

**toneloc60** · 03-04-2006, 06:39 AM

here's my view on the whole deal. I think Lori was started off trying to be civil and explain her point. However, you did get a little defensive there. We all know that most dealerships are only going to go by KBB on a trade in. They will sell according to NADA. But, as I explained to a dealership yesterday, they knew as well as I that to find a late model F-body selling for KBB or under is very rare. Everyone knows that these cars aren't made anymore. A lot of people want them. Supply and demand. It sucks, but it's life.

Therefore, they offered me $12,500 to trade in my '00 Z28 as opposed to the $7,800 KBB called fair with it in "excellent" condition. Yes, they were really trying to entice me to make a deal. But, that's how the game is played.

**SexOnWheels** · 03-04-2006, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by predator

...there is an LT4 firehawk for sale on the net...

The Firehawk that was on e-bay was a rarity. The car had like 26 miles on it FFS. Also it was the last one ever built. The guy must have sealed it away from birth.

You would think after all that trouble he would have waited to really increase his investment. But then again how long do you have to wait?

@Lori just keep looking you will find the car you are looking for at a fair price.

**oneBADDz** · 03-04-2006, 08:10 AM

HAHA, "classic to be." I have a friend that picked up a 97 WS6 M6 for 7 grand with 55k or so on it. Blue book is blue book. These cars aren't "special" let's be serious. Everyone and their daddy is trying to bank on the fact that they don't make them anymore. They stopped making them because the general population lost interest, I wouldn't say that makes them special. . .
They stopped building the pinto, let's see if we can sell ours for 23 grand
At the end of the day a car is a car, if he wants to get something major out of his "classic to be" he is gonna have to wait for it to be a classic

**FasstChevys** · 03-04-2006, 08:18 AM

The car is worth what someone is willing to pay, irregardless of the damn "Blue Book" price. A good example is someone who has a car but really doesn't want to sell it, and along comes someone who offers them a lot more than what the "Blue Book" says. The "Blue Book" is a good guide for every day driver vehicles and the like. This car obviously wasn't a daily driver, at least not for very long. It is a specialty vehicle, it only has 26,000 miles on it. My bet is you won't find a nicer one. To me, it's not out of line to ask 10 grand for it. Just my .02

**ReBop** · 03-04-2006, 10:11 AM

Yeh, I'm thinking the guy has a pristeen car and knows what it is worth. He's likely right on the money, despite the blue book price.

It won't do any good to argue with him any longer. If you're serious, make him an offer at what you are willing to pay and hope you get lucky.

**toneloc60** · 03-04-2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by FasstChevys

The car is worth what someone is willing to pay, irregardless of the damn "Blue Book" price.

"Irregardless?" Don't let BillyT catch you saying that.

--Damn improper english...

--

**BillyT** · 03-04-2006, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by toneloc60

"Irregardless?" Don't let BillyT catch you saying that.

--Damn improper english...

--

**jking** · 03-04-2006, 12:17 PM

The worth of any car, or any thing for that matter, can only be determined by the owner.

Or at least that's the way it works in a free market society...

**Mr. CarelessAndImprudent** · 03-04-2006, 12:24 PM

I'm waiting for the new Camaro to come out, so I can watch the floor fall out of the
4th gen market and pick up a daily driver ls1 for cheap

**toneloc60** · 03-05-2006, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. CarelessAndImprudent

I'm waiting for the new Camaro to come out, so I can watch the floor fall out of the
4th gen market and pick up a daily driver ls1 for cheap

You sure you want to do that. Hell, the way GM is going, you'll be able to get collector plates on the 4th gen when the new camaro comes out.

**keliente** · 03-05-2006, 07:01 AM

I dunno. I would have just let it go...people on eBay are stupid and often overprice stuff. Either he'll find some numbnut willing to pay that much for the car, or he'll keep losing money by listing it on ebay etc.

**SLIM_DURST** · 03-05-2006, 07:06 AM

i'd ask him this: what exactly sets your car from another of the same make/year/mileage where you need to charge $4k over book? that is what i'm not clear about from his answers

by the way, an antique car is 25 years old. so to say it has extra value because it's GOING to be an antique in another 15 years is laughable.

**FasstChevys** · 03-05-2006, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by toneloc60

"Irregardless?" Don't let BillyT catch you saying that.

--Damn improper english...

--

I'm not too worried about it.

**DrMilhouse** · 03-05-2006, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by jking

The worth of any car, or any thing for that matter, can only be determined by the owner.

Or at least that's the way it works in a free market society...

I disagree, the worth of any car is really set by the buyer. The owner can think it's worth as much as he wants, but the true value or worth of the car is only what someone is willing to pay for it.

It's a terrible way to look at it, but there's something sentimental that we all have. It's worth hundreds, thousands maybe to us individually, but no one would pay us for it because at the end of the day, it's worthless to most people.