Why... just why?

**pajeff02** · 05-25-2010, 06:56 PM

Things that piss me off: The need for special tools to do a simple job like swapping a timing belt.

Halfway through the timing belt swap on the wife's Stratus, I see that the service manual calls for a "special tool" to pre-tension the timing belt. I have always been a firm believer that "special tool" usually translates to either:

1) A BFH;
2) A piece of pipe;
3) An existing tool that I modify on my bench grinder; or,
4) Something I have laying around the garage that will serve the purpose.

This special tool, however, needed to be something akin to large circlip pliers that you can attach a torque wrench to. I quickly realized that my BFH was a poor substitute, as was everything else in my garage.

All the engineers had to do was weld a nut onto the face of the tensioner pulley and anyone with a set of wrenches could have held it in place in order to tighten down the pulley bolt. I tried everything I could think of... ended up breaking my circlip pliers, but finally found a flat pry bar that fit up in next to the water pump to pry the pulley over while my backup set of circlip pliers kept the cam from rotating as I tightened the bolt.

Why does it have to be so difficult? If the water pump now goes I am driving this thing off a cliff as, you guessed it, the timing belt has to come off to change the pump.

**dklowrider** · 05-25-2010, 07:08 PM

i think this is one of those times you should replace something while you're in there even though it isn't bad yet. with my luck it would go out next week.

**pajeff02** · 05-25-2010, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by dklowrider

i think this is one of those times you should replace something while you're in there even though it isn't bad yet. with my luck it would go out next week.

I thought about that -- but half the time the crap parts you get anymore are in worse shape than what comes off the car. This one makes no noise and is not leaking.

**wheeliE-maxx** · 05-25-2010, 07:19 PM

atleast you know the tools should work. I love rusted/frozen hardware. Gotta have a torch, impact wrench, your normal tools, extracting bits, pb blaster, cutting tools etc. Then the sum bitch might come out. And you need a new bolt

Speaking of, how are the Olds and Monte coming

**pajeff02** · 05-25-2010, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by wheeliE-maxx

atleast you know the tools should work. I love rusted/frozen hardware. Gotta have a torch, impact wrench, your normal tools, extracting bits, pb blaster, cutting tools etc. Then the sum bitch might come out. And you need a new bolt

Speaking of, how are the Olds and Monte coming

Delivered the Olds motor to BTR Performance where it will be transformed into a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's getting stroked and roller cammed but will maintain its stock appearance.

The Monte was partially buffed last week to take to a cruise in. I'll do some more work on it over the next couple of days as we have our largest area car show on Saturday.

**cammed goat** · 05-25-2010, 07:58 PM

Yup...this is "modern technology". Cars have more parts to fail and we get to go ape$%^& trying to fix the problem(s).

**0rion** · 05-25-2010, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

Things that piss me off: The need for special tools to do a simple job like swapping a timing belt.

Halfway through the timing belt swap on the wife's Stratus, I see that the service manual calls for a "special tool" to pre-tension the timing belt. I have always been a firm believer that "special tool" usually translates to either:

1) A BFH;
2) A piece of pipe;
3) An existing tool that I modify on my bench grinder; or,
4) Something I have laying around the garage that will serve the purpose.

This special tool, however, needed to be something akin to large circlip pliers that you can attach a torque wrench to. I quickly realized that my BFH was a poor substitute, as was everything else in my garage.

All the engineers had to do was weld a nut onto the face of the tensioner pulley and anyone with a set of wrenches could have held it in place in order to tighten down the pulley bolt. I tried everything I could think of... ended up breaking my circlip pliers, but finally found a flat pry bar that fit up in next to the water pump to pry the pulley over while my backup set of circlip pliers kept the cam from rotating as I tightened the bolt.

Why does it have to be so difficult? If the water pump now goes I am driving this thing off a cliff as, you guessed it, the timing belt has to come off to change the pump.

found your problem

**pajeff02** · 05-26-2010, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by 0rion

found your problem

**Knight** · 05-26-2010, 06:33 AM

I can't even count the number of tools I've modified from their original usage just so I could work on something that required a "special" tool. I sometimes think it's the only thing that keeps engineers employed - coming up with new tools. Sad part is, if you buy the tool, many times it's a one time use only - as it won't work on any of your other cars.

**LSCyaL8R** · 05-26-2010, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

If the water pump now goes I am driving this thing off a cliff as, you guessed it, the timing belt has to come off to change the pump.

Things like this piss me off. That is just poor planning by the powertrain engineers. Like they built the mockup of the engine and realized that they forgot to put a timing belt so they just tacked it on the front of the engine... like... seriously!?!?

My DOHC 4.6 had the water pump right in front of the engine just below the alternator which was front and center and brain dead easy to replace. My Saturn has the water pump pretty much separate from the engine and was another mindless job to complete...

When something is engineered well then it is easy to maintain. I am sick of badly designed vehicles and this just sounds like an egregious transgression.

Hell the Saturn is so well thought out that I swapped the clutch master, slave and all the lines in about 15 minutes. In fact part of me thinks if I had to do it again I could do it even faster and with fewer steps... it's THAT easy.

ARGH!!! I hate "special" tools...

good luck with that valvetrain noise

**Zinergy** · 05-26-2010, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Knight

I can't even count the number of tools I've modified from their original usage just so I could work on something that required a "special" tool. I sometimes think it's the only thing that keeps engineers employed - coming up with new tools. Sad part is, if you buy the tool, many times it's a one time use only - as it won't work on any of your other cars.

So then rent the tool, i had the same issue with my early 90s new yorker, Auto zone 25 dollar rental which is refunded when you return the tool.

**LimeNine** · 05-26-2010, 09:44 AM

"college educated engineers" PATHETIC.

I'm a toolmaker by trade, yes I can build or make any tool I need, but actually a toolmaker is a builder of progressive dies that stamp out many thousands of parts. .

SO, I work from blueprints, and on many occassions it is a political game.
Engineers have drawn the object in CAD (computer aided design)
Engineers don't have practical experience, and the computer doesn't let you exam the object in real life.

I've been told more than once to "make it like the drawing"
. . . . "But excuse me Sir, to be more efficient we could do this"
"NO, make it like the drawing"

F'n morons -

**pajeff02** · 05-26-2010, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

So then rent the tool, i had the same issue with my early 90s new yorker, Auto zone 25 dollar rental which is refunded when you return the tool.

Not a bad idea... except they don't have one for the Stratus. I checked on-line and found one for around $20.00 in case I need to go at it again.

**67CamaroRSSS** · 05-26-2010, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by LimeNine

"college educated engineers" PATHETIC.

I'm a toolmaker by trade, yes I can build or make any tool I need, but actually a toolmaker is a builder of progressive dies that stamp out many thousands of parts. .

SO, I work from blueprints, and on many occassions it is a political game.
Engineers have drawn the object in CAD (computer aided design)
Engineers don't have practical experience, and the computer doesn't let you exam the object in real life.

I've been told more than once to "make it like the drawing"
. . . . "But excuse me Sir, to be more efficient we could do this"
"NO, make it like the drawing"

F'n morons -

Hey now. While I lack a formal degree (6 years of college with nary an AA to wipe my ass with - that'll happen when you switch from EE to ME and then switch to part time...) I do have 30+ years of design (25 of those years using CAD) under my belt. I also have the advantage of having been a machinist before I was a designer (I could read blueprints) so I know how to DFM. And the last 16 years have been spent designing and manufacturing bus bars. I also program turret punch presses, progressive stamping machines and sheet metal brakes in addition to creating the dies and tooling to punch metal. I also design all tooling required to subsequently laminate it all together.

The toolmaker in the shop I work at paid me a very high complement. He told me that I was the only Engineer he's ever worked with that when he got prints for any tool and/or punching die he never had a problem interpreting or using them to make a part.

I do agree with you on some of the rookie engineers I've encountered along the way. Total lack of common sense as to how things are made or how machines work.

**wheeliE-maxx** · 05-26-2010, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by LimeNine

"college educated engineers" PATHETIC.

I'm a toolmaker by trade, yes I can build or make any tool I need, but actually a toolmaker is a builder of progressive dies that stamp out many thousands of parts. .

SO, I work from blueprints, and on many occassions it is a political game.
Engineers have drawn the object in CAD (computer aided design)
Engineers don't have practical experience, and the computer doesn't let you exam the object in real life.
I've been told more than once to "make it like the drawing"
. . . . "But excuse me Sir, to be more efficient we could do this"
"NO, make it like the drawing"

F'n morons -

I swear some engineers are from another planet. Like my engineering teacher or the people my dad works with. They have no idea how shit really works, but they can build it on a computer..

**Zapper2003** · 05-26-2010, 12:39 PM

What carshow is Saturday, Jeff?

**blackcar** · 05-26-2010, 12:39 PM

My brother had an old Honda dirt bike when I was little. The points needed changing and it need a special tool somewhere in the process. Don't remember how expensive the tool was, but it was enough that he gave the bike away instead of changing the points. And the only Honda dealer within 2 hours drive would not loan or rent the tool out.

**dklowrider** · 05-26-2010, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Zapper2003

What carshow is Saturday, Jeff?

i could use a good roadtrip this weekend. there's a lot of drag strip action though.

**Zinergy** · 05-26-2010, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by LimeNine

"college educated engineers" PATHETIC.

I'm a toolmaker by trade, yes I can build or make any tool I need, but actually a toolmaker is a builder of progressive dies that stamp out many thousands of parts. .

SO, I work from blueprints, and on many occassions it is a political game.
Engineers have drawn the object in CAD (computer aided design)
Engineers don't have practical experience, and the computer doesn't let you exam the object in real life.

I've been told more than once to "make it like the drawing"
. . . . "But excuse me Sir, to be more efficient we could do this"
"NO, make it like the drawing"

F'n morons -

Hahaha I know exactly what you mean, at the shops i worked at the rule was always make it like the blueprints say, even if you know something they dont.