Taxes, do we have to pay them?

**supercopone** · 11-25-2009, 12:01 PM

I finished reading a book not to long ago about taxes. I was an eye opener, it was writen by a retired IRS agent. He spent his whole 20 plus years while working for the IRS tring to find a way to show where they gained there power from, he said they were an illeagly formed corporation that was incorporated in Delaware in 1922. The goverment had to do it this way to skirt the constitution cause it does not allow the feds to collect taxes. There is not one law he said on the books to enforce the collection of taxes and prosecute evaders. They have written there on laws that have never been approved by congress. I could go and on about the stuff in the book, but I dont want to sound like a nut job. Im gonna pay my taxes, I dont want to go to prison.

Is this in anyway true, I did a lot of searching on the net and theres a lot of info to back this stuff up.

**krese** · 11-25-2009, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by supercopone

I finished reading a book not to long ago about taxes. I was an eye opener, it was writen by a retired IRS agent. He spent his whole 20 plus years while working for the IRS tring to find a way to show where they gained there power from, he said they were an illeagly formed corporation that was incorporated in Delaware in 1922. The goverment had to do it this way to skirt the constitution cause it does not allow the feds to collect taxes. There is not one law he said on the books to enforce the collection of taxes and prosecute evaders. They have written there on laws that have never been approved by congress. I could go and on about the stuff in the book, but I dont want to sound like a nut job. Im gonna pay my taxes, I dont want to go to prison.

Is this in anyway true, I did a lot of searching on the net and theres a lot of info to back this stuff up.

you will find a LOT of people that tell you that you HAVE to pay taxes just because THEY themselves have to pay and it is only fair. the fact is that the people with guns tell you that you have to pay or else those guns will help put you in to jail. nobody in congress is going to say you don't have to pay taxes because they only want MORE of your money....

**67CamaroRSSS** · 11-25-2009, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by krese

you will find a LOT of people that tell you that you HAVE to pay taxes just because THEY themselves have to pay and it is only fair. the fact is that the people with guns tell you that you have to pay or else those guns will help put you in to jail. nobody in congress is going to say you don't have to pay taxes because they only want MORE of your money....

They got bigger guns than me so I pay. And pay. And pay. And pay....

**86 IROC-Z** · 11-25-2009, 02:52 PM

Try not paying your taxes and let us know how that works out for you

**krese** · 11-25-2009, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by 86 IROC-Z

Try not paying your taxes and let us know how that works out for you

this does not answer his question.... it perpetuates the "obligation" to pay taxes.

**0rion** · 11-25-2009, 02:59 PM

you don't HAVE to pay them....lots of people don't pay them. They're called criminals or illegals.

**Smittro** · 11-25-2009, 03:02 PM

Nope you don't have to...... Let us know how that works out for ya in about 3 to 5...

**Smittro** · 11-25-2009, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by 0rion

you don't HAVE to pay them....lots of people don't pay them. They're called criminals or illegals.

You won qweek ahh grasshoppahhh...

**infantryws6** · 11-25-2009, 03:06 PM

Where does the constitution state that collecting tax is illegal?

**Smittro** · 11-25-2009, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by infantryws6

Where does the constitution state that collecting tax is illegal?

It does't..

**Smittro** · 11-25-2009, 03:10 PM

Our founding fathers knew long ago, protecting the folks costs money..

**krese** · 11-25-2009, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by infantryws6

Where does the constitution state that collecting tax is illegal?

the founding fathers did make it illegal by putting in the amendment that says the federal government may only have the powers that are ENUMERATED in the constitution. that means that they can't just make up stuff... what they did was amend the constitution in a lame duck session to make it legal to collect your income tax. people were told at the time that only the rich would ever pay income tax... geee, how long did that last?

**cammed goat** · 11-25-2009, 03:35 PM

Having almost $200 taken out of your check isn't so bad.

**infantryws6** · 11-25-2009, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by krese

the founding fathers did make it illegal by putting in the amendment that says the federal government may only have the powers that are ENUMERATED in the constitution. that means that they can't just make up stuff... what they did was amend the constitution in a lame duck session to make it legal to collect your income tax. people were told at the time that only the rich would ever pay income tax... geee, how long did that last?

I am not going to take the time to look it up because I don't care but I am just going to go with the assumption that you are wrong. My reasoning is there are many things not in the mentioned in the constitution that are illegal which the government enforces.

**krese** · 11-25-2009, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by infantryws6

I am not going to take the time to look it up because I don't care but I am just going to go with the assumption that you are wrong. My reasoning is there are many things not in the mentioned in the constitution that are illegal which the government enforces.

holy, lazy and uneducated.........

here you go lazy, trusting fool... here is how wrong i am:

Tenth Amendment: reserves to the states respectively, or to the people, any powers the Constitution did not delegate to the United States, nor prohibit the states from exercising.

the government does a lot of things the shouldn't...

**SHines-IT** · 11-25-2009, 03:54 PM

What book is this?

**infantryws6** · 11-25-2009, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by krese

holy, lazy and uneducated.........

here you go lazy, trusting fool... here is how wrong i am:

Tenth Amendment: reserves to the states respectively, or to the people, any powers the Constitution did not delegate to the United States, nor prohibit the states from exercising.

the government does a lot of things the shouldn't...

Before you show your ignorance by calling me lazy, uneducated, and a fool you should try reading the link you provided. Judging by your reading comprehension you will probably be unable to comprehend this either, but once again I don't care what your interpretation of the law is.

Now I will go back to being an uneducated (I am willing to be I have a lot more education than you) lazy asshole who is protecting your freedoms.

Maybe you should consider packing your bags and going to another country where they won't illegally tax you. I am sure you will love it there

**krese** · 11-25-2009, 04:00 PM

here are the enumerated powers for those that don't know (you don't see any power to tax income till you come to the 16 amendment):

Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Section 9 - Limits on Congress
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
(No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.)
No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.

**krese** · 11-25-2009, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by infantryws6

Before you show your ignorance by calling me lazy, uneducated, and a fool you should try reading the link you provided. Judging by your reading comprehension you will probably be unable to comprehend this either, but once again I don't care what your interpretation of the law is.

Now I will go back to being an uneducated (I am willing to be I have a lot more education than you) lazy asshole who is protecting your freedoms.

Maybe you should consider packing your bags and going to another country where they won't illegally tax you. I am sure you will love it there

funny, you defend a constitution that you know NOTHING about.... prolly too dumb to get a job so you had to go in to the armed forces.. thank you for your duty from the bottom of my heart for serving.. but please learn what you defend.

**Tonik** · 11-25-2009, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by krese

holy, lazy and uneducated.........

here you go lazy, trusting fool... here is how wrong i am:

Tenth Amendment: reserves to the states respectively, or to the people, any powers the Constitution did not delegate to the United States, nor prohibit the states from exercising.

the government does a lot of things the shouldn't...

That does not make him a lazy uneducated fool...
Personally, I don't give two shits about politics or government and I'll just keep paying my taxes... guess why.

News titles such as.... "Wesley Snipes arrested for tax evasion"

I promise... every millionaire that has been arrested for tax evasion has had some of the best lawyers defending them and they go to jail anyways. If the ivy-league educated lawyers can't find the illegality of the tax system I highly doubt you can.

If you think I'm uneducated for not knowing/caring about politics/government, I think you're uneducated for not grasping the finer concepts of Differential Equations or Vector Calculus.