An open letter to "Fbodfather"

[emarkay]

I got this in my mail today:

"Please -- take a moment to send President Bush a note on making emergency funds available to GM/Ford/Chrysler using the TARP funds.
This is a LOAN -- not a grant.
comments@whitehouse.gov
My heartfelt thanks............"

My blood pressure went ballistic. Instead of replying personally, I wanted to offer this; my first comment in years here, to see if I am missing something about this Country and the Industry, or if there really is something wrong with THIS picture...

************************************************** ********
"Quit acting like a 65 year old hooker begging for your last trick. You sold out your integrity as the "Fbodfather" when you let them humiliate you with a Hummer in your title.

Your company assisted Osama and his ilk in destroying the towers (and our Country) because they encouraged fuel sucking pick-up trucks to non-commercial/non hauling customers, Hummers to the civilians and SUV's to those without 10 kids. This petroleum windfall gave those Qaeda fiends millions...

Your company also encouraged top-heavy minivans when a low-CG station wagon would have served better; we may have a few more MPG, but how many Americans died for the fallacy of FWD; and what was gained anywhere by the inability to maneuver an unnecessary behemoth.

Instead of encouraging intelligence and integrity you, and GM, sold your soul to the lowest common denominator.

Now you pay the price.

You fools....

What a waste of what could have been.

I proudly recall when GM made a variety of cars for the various abilities and desires of the masses, not a pile of overpriced crap for the simpleminded.

PS: The kowtowing to the CAW and the UAW showed GM's impotence. Unions only serve the weak and the greedy... I wonder, will that be GM's epitapth?

[shady milkman]

wow that was quite the rant

[B34M3R]

The only part of the above post that sends my blood pressure up is the 2nd half of it and its glaring ignorance of the repercussions of GMs failure will have on the American public and a general ignorance of common sense in general.

GM is to be blamed because it built SUVs and minivans? Not the people that gobbled them up like candy? Its GMs fault that Americans like their trucks even though they get garbage MPG? And because of that the twin towers were destroyed? And explain to me how FWD kills people? This is new to me. If thats the case(which it is not), then you should prolly go to the source of the FWD trend with your bitching... the import carmakers. But, since its not, you'd be wasting your time.

So, quick recap. Trucks caused the twin towers destruction, and FWD kills Americans. Sooooo trucks, minivans, SUVs, and economy cars all kill people. Exactly how are we supposed to take this seriously?

[shady milkman]

The only part of the above post that sends my blood pressure up is the 2nd half of it and its glaring ignorance of the repercussions of GMs failure will have on the American public and a general ignorance of common sense in general.

GM is to be blamed because it built SUVs and minivans? Not the people that gobbled them up like candy? Its GMs fault that Americans like their trucks even though they get garbage MPG? And because of that the twin towers were destroyed? And explain to me how FWD kills people? This is new to me. If thats the case(which it is not), then you should prolly go to the source of the FWD trend with your bitching... the import carmakers. But, since its not, you'd be wasting your time.

So, quick recap. Trucks caused the twin towers destruction, and FWD kills Americans. Sooooo trucks, minivans, SUVs, and economy cars all kill people. Exactly how are we supposed to take this seriously?

good post.....the mass-consuming style of society is to blame..not the car makers that supply that demand

[DrMilhouse]

Uhm... supply and demand. The public demanded it, so they supplied it.

I'm against the bail out mentality of things lately anyway, at least as much as most people are. It's scary to me for what's coming up in the future for our economy.

They screwed up. They're the reason they are where they are. Just like it's MY responsibility that I am in the financial state I'm in.

The people "guiding" the company to this hole (based on their "vision) make more each quarter than many (most?!) any of the other employees do in an entire life time and they're not giving up anything for the luxuries and pay that they receive.

That's my $0.02 for it all.

[fbodfather]

I got this in my mail today:

"Please -- take a moment to send President Bush a note on making emergency funds available to GM/Ford/Chrysler using the TARP funds.
This is a LOAN -- not a grant.
comments@whitehouse.gov
My heartfelt thanks............"

My blood pressure went ballistic. Instead of replying personally, I wanted to offer this; my first comment in years here, to see if I am missing something about this Country and the Industry, or if there really is something wrong with THIS picture...

************************************************** ********
"Quit acting like a 65 year old hooker begging for your last trick. You sold out your integrity as the "Fbodfather" when you let them humiliate you with a Hummer in your title.

Your company assisted Osama and his ilk in destroying the towers (and our Country) because they encouraged fuel sucking pick-up trucks to non-commercial/non hauling customers, Hummers to the civilians and SUV's to those without 10 kids. This petroleum windfall gave those Qaeda fiends millions...

Your company also encouraged top-heavy minivans when a low-CG station wagon would have served better; we may have a few more MPG, but how many Americans died for the fallacy of FWD; and what was gained anywhere by the inability to maneuver an unnecessary behemoth.

Instead of encouraging intelligence and integrity you, and GM, sold your soul to the lowest common denominator.

Now you pay the price.

You fools....

What a waste of what could have been.

I proudly recall when GM made a variety of cars for the various abilities and desires of the masses, not a pile of overpriced crap for the simpleminded.

PS: The kowtowing to the CAW and the UAW showed GM's impotence. Unions only serve the weak and the greedy... I wonder, will that be GM's epitapth?

I find it interesting that you sent me one email a few days ago that was somewhat different from the one above.

I'm sorry that you see me as a hooker -- shame on me for spending time with our customers over the past years and doing what I could to support the enthusiast community.

Let me address a few of your points:

I was instructed to take on Hummer as part of my job responsibilities -- it wasn't something that I chose.

We helpd Osama, huh? I don't recall ever seeing anyone at GM (or Ford or Chrysler) holding a gun to the head of a customer telling them that they have to buy an SUV or a truck. The last time I looked, we Americans live in a country where we can choose what to drive. Funny that you've ignored the fact that Toyota just built a plant in San Antonio, TX to build "fuel sucking" pickups -(your words, not mine) -- and they just made their full-sized SUV even larger. (I should also point out that GM Pickups, as a whole, get better fuel economy than Toyota -- we also build two-mode hybrids so that people who NEED work trucks or SUVs that can carry up to 8 have a choice -- did I mention that the Tahoe 2mode gets better fuel economy than a Toyota Camry? You're out of line with your viscious and horrible accusations, Michael.....

America chose not to buy station wagons -- go look at the data from 1977 to present day. America chose mini-vans - and when that became 'soccer-mom' stagnant, they chose SUVs -- and it cost GM dearly by NOT turning to SUVs faster. The simple fact is that America has enjoyed 'cheap gas' for most of the 20th century and for a good portion of the 21st century up to today. (I paid $1.49 last night in metro Detroit)

I haven't a clue (and I suspect others may agree) as to what you mean by (and I quote you: "..... but how many Americans died for the fallacy of FWD...." -- OK -- are you saying that FWD cars are more dangerous than RWD cars? Don't think so! Go look at the facts instead of professing your 'beliefs'

While I do not agree with the Union, you may recall the last couple of Strikes cost the country - not to mention suppliers and manufacturers a lot of money. Are you professing that we should take money from American workers and give it to the Koreans? I don't recall Korea doing anything especially kind for the United States.......so -- OK -- let's follow your logic: let's make everyone at the Lordstown, Ohio Assembly plant take a 30% pay cut - want to guess the number of foreclosures that will occur? What about the fact that those workers spend money in OUR economy? No -- it appears that you think we should pay the wages of those in Korea and Japan -- (by the way -- go look at the trade imbalance -- esp. for manufactured goods.....) Ever try to export any manufactured item to Japan? Good Luck -- it's a closed market -- and we won't even get into the 'manipulation of the yen'......

And while you mention Osama Bin Laden - and the towers - let me ask you this: WHICH company was credited by several business journals for saving the U.S. Economy in the days and weeks after 9-11? It was GM.

you write: "........I proudly recall when GM made a variety of cars for the various abilities and desires of the masses, not a pile of overpriced crap for the simpleminded......"

I think a lot of people would disagree with you on that one -- but hey, it's a free country and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how misguided it may be.

So -- OK, Mike -- don't worry -- we'll find out soon enough --

As I recall -- you live in Indiana -- where are you going to move to protect yourself IF the big three go bankrupt? Don't think you'll escape the pain - and this is not like some TV video game where you can hit "reset" after it's game-over.

I don't come to this site -- not that I don't want to - -but I am working harder than I ever have to help save this company and (pay attention here) SAVE THIS COUNTRY.

I'm sorry that my email upset you - you can be assured that I'll do whatever is in my power to ensure you never hear from me again. Trust me!

[0rion]

Uhm... supply and demand. The public demanded it, so they supplied it.

I'm against the bail out mentality of things lately anyway, at least as much as most people are. It's scary to me for what's coming up in the future for our economy.

They screwed up. They're the reason they are where they are. Just like it's MY responsibility that I am in the financial state I'm in.

The people "guiding" the company to this hole (based on their "vision) make more each quarter than many (most?!) any of the other employees do in an entire life time and they're not giving up anything for the luxuries and pay that they receive.

That's my $0.02 for it all.

I agree with pretty much everything you said except the first line. Not sure I agree with that.

[DrMilhouse]

First line was a response to this:

because they encouraged fuel sucking pick-up trucks to non-commercial/non hauling customers, Hummers to the civilians and SUV's to those without 10 kids.

The automakers didn't force those to be purchased. The public wanted them, so they kept cranking them out. They didn't keep making them and offer that as the ONLY vehicle available.

Sorry, that might not have been clear.

[0rion]

First line was a response to this:

The automakers didn't force those to be purchased. The public wanted them, so they kept cranking them out. They didn't keep making them and offer that as the ONLY vehicle available.

Sorry, that might not have been clear.

the reason I don't agree is because the consumers have been asking for alternative fuel vehicles for decades. The demand has been there but the supply was for vehicles exactly opposite of that. If you look at the profit margin the car companies have on suv's and truck's then you really understand why they were only too happy to market those to people. On the other hand, they would've had to spend money on R&D for alt. fuel vehicles in order to make those a reality. Where would we and they be now if more R&D would've been done on alt. fuel cars 25-30 years ago? Instead they were more than happy to pad their wallets with high profit gas guzzlers and worry about the fuel problem later down the road. Well, here we are. Later down the road and now they want to undo decades of irresponsibility in one big check. Where were those suv and truck profits going to in the 90's?
I agree that the people buying those vehicles had the option to not purchase but you get into incentive programs and things like that which make those vehicles more appealing than they actually were. If people were wanting what the big 3 had to offer then tell me why the small suv market dominated by import companies has done so well? Or small import cars in general? Not arguing with you at all, just feel that your first statement wasn't entirely true.

[Y2KSS1363]

Now see, that's the thing with freedom of speech, everyone has to put up with idiots.

IIRC, it was CAFE that did away with station wagons. Mini-vans and SUV's are classed as "trucks" and thus are in a different classification than station wagons, which are cars for CAFE purposes, and have to get higher MPG.

In a country of (sort of) free choice, a car buyer can spend his (or her) money on whatever vehicle most suits his needs or wants. I don't want anyone telling me what kind of car I can buy.

The current economic crisis is directly traceable to the Carter and Clinton administrations far more than Reagan, Daddy Bush, or Dub'ya. The rise of "Political Correctness" (recently traced to Mr. Rogers) is largely or even entirely at fault. Everyone who desires an new house is entitled to one whether they can make the payments or not. This crisis is the immediate cause of the auto companies distress. To blame Scott in any way is the height if idiocy.

In short, "emarkay," your opinions are ignorant and your statements are inaccurate at best and slanderous at worst.

[grouch0jr]

what the hell is going on here?

[Y2KSS1363]

I owe the readers of this board an apology.

I always caution others not to feed trolls, and I've gone and done it myself.

Message boards are for the free exchange of ideas, not for personal attacks.

Again my apologies. I've edited out the offensive phrase from my above post.

[typhoon1110]

I got this in my mail today:

"Please -- take a moment to send President Bush a note on making emergency funds available to GM/Ford/Chrysler using the TARP funds.
This is a LOAN -- not a grant.
comments@whitehouse.gov
My heartfelt thanks............"

My blood pressure went ballistic. Instead of replying personally, I wanted to offer this; my first comment in years here, to see if I am missing something about this Country and the Industry, or if there really is something wrong with THIS picture...

************************************************** ********
"Quit acting like a 65 year old hooker begging for your last trick. You sold out your integrity as the "Fbodfather" when you let them humiliate you with a Hummer in your title.

Your company assisted Osama and his ilk in destroying the towers (and our Country) because they encouraged fuel sucking pick-up trucks to non-commercial/non hauling customers, Hummers to the civilians and SUV's to those without 10 kids. This petroleum windfall gave those Qaeda fiends millions...

Your company also encouraged top-heavy minivans when a low-CG station wagon would have served better; we may have a few more MPG, but how many Americans died for the fallacy of FWD; and what was gained anywhere by the inability to maneuver an unnecessary behemoth.

Instead of encouraging intelligence and integrity you, and GM, sold your soul to the lowest common denominator.

Now you pay the price.

You fools....

What a waste of what could have been.

I proudly recall when GM made a variety of cars for the various abilities and desires of the masses, not a pile of overpriced crap for the simpleminded.

PS: The kowtowing to the CAW and the UAW showed GM's impotence. Unions only serve the weak and the greedy... I wonder, will that be GM's epitapth?

you are stupid. get back on your short bus and keep riding.

[emarkay]

FWIW, My accusations are made with clear intent. Remember when "what was good for the country was good for General Motors and vice versa"?

Had GM decided to not compromise their integrity by pandering to the short term profits made from the stupidity of modern America, they could have said:

"We care about the environment, and the safety of our customers, and therefore General Motors will not build unsafe and inefficient vehicles for "everyday" use. Therefore we will remove all but the most basic and utilitarian optional equipment from our SUV's and large trucks. This to encourage commercial sales and to discourage use by the general public. While this may impact our "bottom line" we feel that this is in the best interests of America, and the free world. Additionally we will immediately retool these vehicles to meet automotive bumper height standards for compatibility with the smaller and lighter vehicles on the roads of America".

Like I said, GM could have taken the initiative and more.

They could have kicked out the union overhead by just closing plants; while building new, more efficient ones elsewhere.

They could have offered 10 year comprehensive warranties to prove their quality.

They could have symbolically offered the Hummer line to the Saudis or the Taliban.

They could have admitted that the move to FWD was an unwise move "due to the inherent danger of having your "go, turn and a majority of the stop" inputs all competing for the limited available traction.

Jobs, jobs, jobs... There will always be jobs for nut-turners and welders in America. But paying Union demanded wages to these folks just keeps the remainder of the grocery baggers, maids and burger flippers from affording their products. It may be cruel, but if the workers suffer, it's only their own fault. For example, how many have adequate savings accounts or pay off their credit cards monthly? Do they really need that 35 thousand dollar car in the garage? The McMansion? All those kids?

What if the 14+ billion doesn't help and there are Corporate bankruptcies? So? There will many closures at the tier one and two suppliers, too. But there will be other companies that will adapt and prosper. America won't suffer, it will only loose a bit of excess flab, and be shaken into the realities that there are some fundamental flaws in our system.

From childcare to education, to politics, the system has failed our culture. Maybe this would be a welcome slap in the face to some Americans who have forgotten what personal integrity, societal awareness and consideration for our entire planet is.

It's more than just "gawd bless duh USA..." It's the future of all of us.

End of rant.

PS: My issue with Scott was the "sky is falling" email. Publicly, I "lost the faith" when he added Hummer to his card. For the record, I have nothing against him personally.

[B34M3R]

You are an idiot, plain and simple.

So, as a successful business plan, you think they should have denied the public their wishes, and not offered the vehicles Americans wanted?

You think FWD is inherently more dangerous? How the fuck do you drive that you are accelerating, braking, and turning at the same time? For fuck sakes, under what non-racing circumstances do you need full acceleration AND turning at the same time anyway? Sure, you can argue for an on-ramp, but even the little shitty economy cars can do both of those things at the same time.

Oh, btw, ALL of the car makers have fucking identical lineups. Please point out to me ANY major automaker(that isn't a luxury automaker) that doesn't have FWD cars in its line up or more than one SUV.

And no, they couldn't just up and close all the factories and build new ones elsewhere, they are bound by their contracts to not to do exactly that.

If you think that GM goes under and takes out its suppliers with it that there will be no repercussions for the rest of the country, you are so painfully ignorant and stupid that there is no help for you. It would hurt if the rest of the economy was booming... instead, it comes at a time when we are teetering on a narrow edge towards economic failure.

"They could have symbolically offered the Hummer line to the Saudis or the Taliban."
What the fuck do you even mean by this statement?

"From childcare to education, to politics, the system has failed our culture. Maybe this would be a welcome slap in the face to some Americans who have forgotten what personal integrity, societal awareness and consideration for our entire planet is. "
No, our culture has failed itself with childcare, the system failed education, and politics are fucking politics, it was a broken system to begin with. You obviously are the one without societal awareness, and are prolly one of the nutjobs who thinks global warming is going to sink Florida.


In conclusion: Please, go start you own business. Then, when you fail miserably, stfu for the rest of your life.