Just got a ticket. Need advice

[BOOSTD]

So I was driving home tonight and was turning right from a one way to a one way. I pulled up to the stop (turn signal on) with my left hand up on the wheel and my right hand holding onto my cell phone (talking). I leaned forward to see around the car that was to my left to check for oncoming traffic. I didn’t see any so I turned onto the road. About a quarter mile down the road, I see a cop pulling me over. So the cop comes up to me and looks at my license and insurance and asks me if I knew why he pulled me over. I said "no" because I honestly didn’t know why he pulled me over. I wasn’t speeding. I used my turn signal and stopped completely, etc. He said "because you were talking on your cell phone and didn’t have a seatbelt on." I said, "Is there a law against talking on a cell phone while driving?" Of course there isn’t, but that was his first reason for pulling me over, so I wanted to emphasize that that wasn’t a valid reason for pulling me over. He said "no, but there is one against driving without a seat belt." I said, "officer, Im not going to argue with you because its just your word against mine, but I WAS wearing my seatbelt." Now Im not one to fight over something as minor as this if I was guilty of it. Hell the ticket is only $55 and doesn't really do anything to my record since its a non-moving violation. HOWEVER, I will not allow someone to accuse me of something that I have never, and will never do (not wear a seatbelt)!

Anyway, I said, if you look at my seatbelt (which was off at the time because I had to get my insurance card out of the glove box) while its off and while its on (i put the seatbelt on), you can see that its nearly impossible to see the difference from outside the car." He retorted by saying, "sir I was to your left and could see that you were holding the phone with your right hand and could see that there was no black belt across your chest (im wearing a white shirt)." I didn’t argue with it because I knew it was a losing battle. The problem, however, with his sophomoric response was that I was steering with my left hand which prevented him from being able to see my chest and the apparent lack of a seat belt. Further, it was 9:30 at night and raining heavily! There’s not way in hell that he could have accurately determined the position of my seatbelt.

Once I got back home, I quickly jumped on accuweather.com and printed out a local weather radar picture. Tomorrow I’m going to take pictures of my car and myself inside the car in the same position that he apparently saw me in.

Needless to say, I’m going to fight this. I have no problem with accepting guilt when I have done something wrong. In this situation, however, the officer was at fault and I have to pay for it.

Has anyone else been in a situation like this? Is there anything that I can do to help defend myself? It seems like this is going to be a “your word against mine” type of situation. Of course, the cop always wins when that happens. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
BOOSTD

[Wulfe13]

Good for you dude! My brother's getting ready to fight a ticket for speeding... the cop said he paced him... from about a quarter mile away!!!!!!!

Talking on a cell while driving is a big pet peeve of mine but goodluck anyway.

[oneBADDz]

Good for you dude! My brother's getting ready to fight a ticket for speeding... the cop said he paced him... from about a quarter mile away!!!!!!!

Talking on a cell while driving is a big pet peeve of mine but goodluck anyway.

paced him? what an idiot, that won't ever hold up in court

[illcul8troffcr]

Thank you for this story adding to the fact that some cops are just petty assholes ... oh and by the way about all of your ticket questions the GOD of law enforcement (so he thinks) message JAD628.. he'll be sure and tell you the penal code of how you breathed wrong and the cop had authority to pull you over for that haha and tell you to suck it up and get over it .. oh and that it was your fault for driving on public roadways in the first place .. Best of luck to you with your ticket though for real man .. Ive dealt with pricks like that many times and the best feeling is when you walk out of the court room smiling with it dismissed and not paying a damn dime.. When that happens turn around to him and give a little wink and a smile..

[Liquifire]

if you want furthermore proof go to where the cop was parked when he saw you and at the same type of day and have someone photograph what it looks like while at that exact time of day from his exact location to yours.........this might help, it is just an idea though?

[Bigrus]

if you want furthermore proof go to where the cop was parked when he saw you and at the same type of day and have someone photograph what it looks like while at that exact time of day from his exact location to yours.........this might help, it is just an idea though?

take numerous pictures and show proof he had no way of seeing it.

[illcul8troffcr]

I think you should request documentation from an optometrist for the officer statings his vision .. if he wears glasses... what his vision is .. if you really wanna push it . Do it like they did on "My cousin Vinny" haha... that cop is full of shit he probably got irritated because he spolled his coffee and donuts when you pulled out in front of him

[jad628]

Thank you for this story adding to the fact that some cops are just petty assholes ... oh and by the way about all of your ticket questions the GOD of law enforcement (so he thinks) message JAD628.. he'll be sure and tell you the penal code of how you breathed wrong and the cop had authority to pull you over for that haha and tell you to suck it up and get over it .. oh and that it was your fault for driving on public roadways in the first place .. Best of luck to you with your ticket though for real man .. Ive dealt with pricks like that many times and the best feeling is when you walk out of the court room smiling with it dismissed and not paying a damn dime.. When that happens turn around to him and give a little wink and a smile..

Wow, my number #1 fan (illcul8troffcr) has spoken!!! Take his suggestions with a grain of salt is all I can say.

Seriously, if you didn't do it, I agree you should fight it. You made the right decision by not arguing at the scene. Also, don't assume because it's not a moving violation that there are no points attached (some states do have license points for seat belt violations).

Smart move getting a print-out of the existing weather conditions. It was also good advice to take a picture of you with your left hand on the wheel and show how the belt is hidden by your arm position. Pics of where he observed you are also good.

illcul8troffcr is wrong if he thinks I want you to accept the punishment for something you didn't do. I said in a previous post that I NEVER want to charge a person who isn't guilty. That's always been important to me. If you honestly did nothing wrong, then fight it, and I hope you win. Hopefully, you can show your pics and stuff to the DA prior to calendar call and they dismiss it. It could be the officer will see he made a mistake and ask the DA to drop it. Keep a good, respectful attitude and many more options will be available to you. The judge will decide this, not the DA or the officer. All you have to do is show a reasonable doubt to the judge and POOF, the charge is dropped and you are NOT guilty. Nothing in a criminal case survives a reasonable doubt.

Good luck and keep that good attitude,

John (not the GOD of Law Enforcement, just a regular guy)

P.S. I was listening to Ted Nugent's Double Live Gonzo CD in my 1999 Z28 M6 as I was driving in to work today. Come on illcul8thoffcr, surely you can find something about that to see I ain't a bad guy. Ted's been my hero since I was a teenager and I love to play Stranglehold on my guitar. See, I'm alright for a cop, huh?

Peace out. Gotta bounce dawg.

[Aerialist]

Fight this tooth and nail.

Go to court armed with a fusilade of evidence.
Pix of the crime scene, weather reports, streets and views of what the cop had in relation to the alleged criminal offense, schematics of probabilities that the cop is lying .... etc. ... It shows you are innocent.

Wait for the cop to be a no-show.
This is important because the court date will be re-scheduled and the cop may or may not show again. This is a form of police harrassment and of course the cop is above the law because he doesn't get a warrant for his arrest like you would.
Although this doesn't impress the judge, it does show the cop is a damn crook.

When pleading your case, be articulate and raise and lower your voice and emotions depending on the tragedy of any given moment.
Be truthful and forthright and conclude with renditions of wisdoms from Plato and other greek philosophers with regards to tyranny of authority.

*Copthought* begins in the academy where they are taught that all humans are slagheaps of life ... so thus a cops life (he thinks) is more of a fly on a pile of sh*it than a profession.
Cops are always emotionless and berift of any integrity and they play this like you're guilty and wasting everyones time.

Unless of course you live in the boondocks where the county funds are derived from extorting motorists.
Then you don't have a chance.

[jad628]

BOOSTD,

Good luck with you case, seriously, but please be careful about some of the "advice" here. I've noticed a couple of billy bad-asses who have an answer for everything and never seem to lose an argument (or court case for that matter). Let me cut to the chase:

They're full of horse shit.

Being a jerk in court in a guaranteed way to get a few days in the gray bar motel (jail). These jailhouse lawyers won't be there the day you go to court, and they won't back you up. They'll just be here online telling everybody how tough they are and watching CSI or whatever Hollywood has to offer and convincing themselves of their own superiority. This is the REAL world, and very, VERY, few people get away with the stuff they claim. I'd NEVER try that, because I ain't that lucky. I doubt they are either.

Do it right. This ain't fiction, it's real life. Obtain evidence that supports your innocence like was discussed. Go into court with a respectful attitude and objectively plead your case. That works my man, if you do it right. Don't automatically categorize all cops as just harassing you like some of these guys here love to do. Maybe the cop made an honest mistake, maybe he is a jerk, but I assure you that if you come on like a raging sphincter you are not going to get much cooperation. Remember, the DA and judge have never dealt with you, don't give them a first impression that isn't positive. These big talkers on this site and really just that I bet....big talkers.

I'm sorry you are going through this, but do it the right way. That's the best I can say about it.

Good luck,

John

[Aerialist]

BOOSTD,

Good luck with you case, seriously, but please be careful about some of the "advice" here. I've noticed a couple of billy bad-asses who have an answer for everything and never seem to lose an argument (or court case for that matter). Let me cut to the chase:

They're full of horse shit.

Being a jerk in court in a guaranteed way to get a few days in the gray bar motel (jail). These jailhouse lawyers won't be there the day you go to court, and they won't back you up. They'll just be here online telling everybody how tough they are and watching CSI or whatever Hollywood has to offer and convincing themselves of their own superiority. This is the REAL world, and very, VERY, few people get away with the stuff they claim. I'd NEVER try that, because I ain't that lucky. I doubt they are either.

Do it right. This ain't fiction, it's real life. Obtain evidence that supports your innocence like was discussed. Go into court with a respectful attitude and objectively plead your case. That works my man, if you do it right. Don't automatically categorize all cops as just harassing you like some of these guys here love to do. Maybe the cop made an honest mistake, maybe he is a jerk, but I assure you that if you come on like a raging sphincter you are not going to get much cooperation. Remember, the DA and judge have never dealt with you, don't give them a first impression that isn't positive. These big talkers on this site and really just that I bet....big talkers.

I'm sorry you are going through this, but do it the right way. That's the best I can say about it.

Good luck,

John

Heres' a cop giving you advice ...

Notice how he carfefully and subliminally tells you not to do a *Sphincter rage out* although even a crackhead wouldn't do this.
He wants you to do this.

Notice his *intergity* ... *the cop made an honest mistake* ... in *copthought* he's telling you the cop in question is doing a crapshoot and has nothing to lose ... no matter what .. you always lose .. if you win the case .. look at the time and effort you lost.

I could go on and have some fun with this one ... but crooked cop bashing is boring ..

[jad628]

Heres' a cop giving you advice ...

Notice how he carfefully and subliminally tells you not to do a *Sphincter rage out* although even a crackhead wouldn't do this.
He wants you to do this.

Notice his *intergity* ... *the cop made an honest mistake* ... in *copthought* he's telling you the cop in question is doing a crapshoot and has nothing to lose ... no matter what .. you always lose .. if you win the case .. look at the time and effort you lost.

I could go on and have some fun with this one ... but crooked cop bashing is boring ..

Oh gee, that stung bad. I submit to you of the supreme power... not. You're tired huh? My integrity includes using the ENTIRE sentences, not fragments like you conveniently posted of my earlier comment. Of course, you were actually present in every Academy class across this country when they taught the police to hate the public. I wish you would have woken me up during that block of instruction, I missed that. Sure would have made the last twenty years easier knowing I don't have to care about the public. That comes very close to me wanting to meet you one day and having this discussion in person, but you are in California apparently, so that won't happen. I care about people and if you don't think so, too bad, it's the truth and YOU don't change that with mere words. My integrity is 100% intact.

BOOSTD,

All I'm trying to do is give yuo an honest opinion. If yuo go into court with a Me against Them attitude, that's likely what you will end up with. Yeah, I'm a cop telling you that the COP isn't the final say in this, the COURT is. This is a lot of involvement about a seat belt violation. Remember, that's all you're going to court over. Turning it into an additional charge for Contempt of Court bacuse you felt like letting the judge know you don't take no shit for anybody isn't a wise move. From your earlier post my money is on you being smarter than that. You take any advice you want to buddy, it's your call. I still wish you luck.

John

[Aerialist]

Oh gee, that stung bad. I submit to you of the supreme power... not. You're tired huh? My integrity includes using the ENTIRE sentences, not fragments like you conveniently posted of my earlier comment. Of course, you were actually present in every Academy class across this country when they taught the police to hate the public. I wish you would have woken me up during that block of instruction, I missed that. Sure would have made the last twenty years easier knowing I don't have to care about the public. That comes very close to me wanting to meet you one day and having this discussion in person, but you are in California apparently, so that won't happen. I care about people and if you don't think so, too bad, it's the truth and YOU don't change that with mere words. My integrity is 100% intact.

BOOSTD,

All I'm trying to do is give yuo an honest opinion. If yuo go into court with a Me against Them attitude, that's likely what you will end up with. Yeah, I'm a cop telling you that the COP isn't the final say in this, the COURT is. This is a lot of involvement about a seat belt violation. Remember, that's all you're going to court over. Turning it into an additional charge for Contempt of Court bacuse you felt like letting the judge know you don't take no shit for anybody isn't a wise move. From your earlier post my money is on you being smarter than that. You take any advice you want to buddy, it's your call. I still wish you luck.

John

Now notice how he's getting pissed off and resorting to *lowlife tactics* i.e. *copthought* .... as if you're now guilty because you misplaced a comma in a sentence.
Now watch how this cop will never move from this *logic*

In U.S. law ... inapproriate dictate and manner is a legitimate reason to find you guilty and/or lose the case. It is called the ethos of truth.
So this is a good point when you go to court ... and I'll reiterate ... be articulate. The more articulate you are ... so will be the ethos of your innocence .... and thus the less likely you will *flare* ... thus having to prove your innocence ...


However, the cop in court will retaliate by coming off with a *sneery smartass* attitude that will piss you off.
This is tactical to get you to *fold*

All this wasted energy in dealing with *copthought* .. the reason you're in this in the first place.

[jad628]

Now notice how he's getting pissed off and resorting to *lowlife tactics* i.e. *copthought* .... as if you're now guilty because you misplaced a comma in a sentence.
Now watch how this cop will never move from this *logic*

In U.S. law ... inapproriate dictate and manner is a legitimate reason to find you guilty and/or lose the case. It is called the ethos of truth.
So this is a good point when you go to court ... and I'll reiterate ... be articulate. The more articulate you are ... so will be the ethos of your innocence .... and thus the less likely you will *flare* ... thus having to prove your innocence ...


However, the cop in court will retaliate by coming off with a *sneery smartass* attitude that will piss you off.
This is tactical to get you to *fold*

All this wasted energy in dealing with *copthought* .. the reason you're in this in the first place.

Take your lithium. Am I correct in seeing you carry on an argument with yourself here?

I thought I told him it was in his best interest to submit his case to the court in a respectful manner. What in the world did you just try to psycho-analyze out of that?

It's pretty clear you aren't as concerned about BOOSTD's dilemma as you are about cop-bashing. Well do as you will Einstein, I'll ride it out.

BOOSTD feel free to PM me if you would like. I sincerely wish you the best. This thread was for your benefit, not MY agenda, so I will keep that in mind.

John

[SSwt00SS]

BOOSTD

heres my advice: you say it was raining, and at night correct? i would assume that you had your windows up. do you have tint? you were right by printing off the radar to prove it was raining. now, go back and photgraph where you were pulled over both in the day light and again at the time of day you were pulled over. document it all. take pics of where the cop said he was in relation to your car when he saw the supposed 'violation'. you are right, stopping you for talking on your cell is not a violation (in some states), a seatbelt infraction is. he gave you a lame 'probable cause' BS reason to stop you.

my advice to everyone: you get pulled over, dont move, DO NOT REMOVE YOUR SEATBELT UNTIL THE OFFICER COMES TO YOUR WINDOW. they can turn on you in a second because you reached for your ID and insurance card. dont fall into those traps so they can write you a ticket for it. sometimes they pull people over for no reason and trap them just like that. hell the number of times ive been pulled over and no tickets (i stay still with my hands outside my car and dont move or do anything else until they approach.

best of luck in fighting this

[Aerialist]

Take your lithium. Am I correct in seeing you carry on an argument with yourself here?

I thought I told him it was in his best interest to submit his case to the court in a respectful manner. What in the world did you just try to psycho-analyze out of that?

It's pretty clear you aren't as concerned about BOOSTD's dilemma as you are about cop-bashing. Well do as you will Einstein, I'll ride it out.

BOOSTD feel free to PM me if you would like. I sincerely wish you the best. This thread was for your benefit, not MY agenda, so I will keep that in mind.

John

You've told him nothing to his benefit .. but you can't .. you're a cop .. you're the reason for his dilemma ... you'd have to OD on lithium just to tell the truth and this would be in his best interest.

I on the other hand have only told him a miniscule of what it takes to win ...
Theres more ... much more.

You'd fu*ck up Einstein if you could with your *ahem* logic ...whose *talking to himself* was for the benefit of mankind .. albeit argueably ... by taking him to court for speeding on his bicycle.

[jad628]

You've told him nothing to his benefit .. but you can't .. you're a cop .. you're the reason for his dilemma ... you'd have to OD on lithium just to tell the truth and this would be in his best interest.

I on the other hand have only told him a miniscule of what it takes to win ...
Theres more ... much more.

You'd fu*ck up Einstein if you could with your *ahem* logic ...whose *talking to himself* was for the benefit of mankind .. albeit argueably ... by taking him to court for speeding on his bicycle.

Wow, you are so gifted, how do you do it? I left NC and went to Carbondale, Ill., and wrote BOOSTD a seat belt violation citation. I did it so I could come on here and give him...what was it.... COPTHOUGHT...so he would go to court and act respectful but in retrospect I was using reverse-psychology to get him to lose his temper and get locked up. You saw through everything i posted. Man, I am amazed by your skill and intellect.

A cop stole your girl before didn't he?

As we say here in the South:

Love ya, mean it.

John

[Aerialist]

Wow, you are so gifted, how do you do it? I left NC and went to Carbondale, Ill., and wrote BOOSTD a seat belt violation citation. I did it so I could come on here and give him...what was it.... COPTHOUGHT...so he would go to court and act respectful but in retrospect I was using reverse-psychology to get him to lose his temper and get locked up. You saw through everything i posted. Man, I am amazed by your skill and intellect.

A cop stole your girl before didn't he?

As we say here in the South:

Love ya, mean it.

John

Is that the best you can do?
My hampster can harder than you ....


But lets continue.

Lets talk about the ethos of truth.

Ethos ~ *the underlying sentiment that informs (of) your belief*

If you believe you are innocent, this is your one true instrument in getting your point across truthfully.
You only need to believe it.

As an example, President George Bush *believes* everything he does and everything he says in his speech's despite *we the american people* being sick of his bold face lies because it has become customary or *the way* and this is the ethos of politics as well .. despite the *catastrophic events* now.

Now the cop in court believes you are guilty.
He believes its impossible to be any other way ... despite the truth.
The judge will find it hard to believe the cop is lying.

Now try to imagine if Bush changed the whole ethos of whats happening now.
He could be impeached and indicted.

Same for the cop.

This what you're up against.


More to come after lunch.

[jad628]

Is that the best you can do?
My hampster can harder than you ....


But lets continue.

Lets talk about the ethos of truth.

Ethos ~ *the underlying sentiment that informs (of) your belief*

If you believe you are innocent, this is your one true instrument in getting your point across truthfully.
You only need to believe it.

As an example, President George Bush *believes* everything he does and everything he says in his speech's despite *we the american people* being sick of his bold face lies because it has become customary or *the way* and this is the ethos of politics as well .. despite the *catastrophic events* now.

Now the cop in court believes you are guilty.
He believes its impossible to be any other way ... despite the truth.
The judge will find it hard to believe the cop is lying.

Now try to imagine if Bush changed the whole ethos of whats happening now.
He could be impeached and indicted.

Same for the cop.

This what you're up against.


More to come after lunch.

You're lack of answering the previous question is a glaring omission from such a well-rounded reparte.

If you BELIEVE you are innocent, it is the instrument to get your point across truthfully? BS. If you ARE innocent, the TRUTH is the instrument to get your point across. Crazy people and conspiracy theorists BELIEVE they are right too. Only the truth shall set you free, but that's a hard situation for liars to comprehend.



Breaking the law and getting away on a technicality doesn't mean you are innocent, it just means you weren't proven guilty which is the duty of the State to satisfy. You were doing 110 in a 55, but the officer didn't have his certification letter for the RADAR in court, so the judge dismisses the case. In reality, were you really going 110? If you walk away with a smirk on your face and thinking "I can't get caught" because I'm so good, then you are, quite frankly, an egotisical jerk who needs a healthy dose of reality. Sooner or later, if you don't wise up, you will get it. A few bad cops and you chastise the entire profession. Well, at least we have the balls to try and make the world a little better place, and we are very appreciative of what others (not just cops) try to do as well. That small percentage of hardcore offenders who care about nothing but themselves and will hurt whomever they have to to get what they want are the ones we LOVE to deal with. Trouble is, they don't have it stamped on their forehead. We have to find them. Where are YOU when we are doing that?

Try ETHICS!!! Deonological and teleological philosophies. The different versions of ethics; Ethical Formalism, Ethics of Virtue, Ethics of Care, etc. Whip yourself into a frenzy and have a ball pal. It still isn't helping BOOSTD with his problem. It just makes YOU feel important.

I apologize to everyone for my remarks that strayed from the subject matter. Spiked hair moniker dude can now let fly at me without further reply. I'm convinced he's like the guy I was taking to jail who told me that 95% of prison inmates are INNOCENT. Please.

Good luck BOOSTD.

John

[Aerialist]

You're lack of answering the previous question is a glaring omission from such a well-rounded reparte.

Sorry I get a little heated when cops stink up the place with their *copthought* .. what was the question?

If you BELIEVE you are innocent, it is the instrument to get your point across truthfully? BS. If you ARE innocent, the TRUTH is the instrument to get your point across. Crazy people and conspiracy theorists BELIEVE they are right too. Only the truth shall set you free, but that's a hard situation for liars to comprehend.

This rhetoric is exactly how the cop will come off in court when you provide the examples of your innocence in the ethos of truth.
Squirm and slip and slide all over the place exactly like the pathetic *true crooks* he busts.
*Copthought* ~ you are no different.

Breaking the law and getting away on a technicality doesn't mean you are innocent, it just means you weren't proven guilty which is the duty of the State to satisfy. You were doing 110 in a 55, but the officer didn't have his certification letter for the RADAR in court, so the judge dismisses the case. In reality, were you really going 110? If you walk away with a smirk on your face and thinking "I can't get caught" because I'm so good, then you are, quite frankly, an egotisical jerk who needs a healthy dose of reality. Sooner or later, if you don't wise up, you will get it. A few bad cops and you chastise the entire profession. Well, at least we have the balls to try and make the world a little better place, and we are very appreciative of what others (not just cops) try to do as well. That small percentage of hardcore offenders who care about nothing but themselves and will hurt whomever they have to to get what they want are the ones we LOVE to deal with. Trouble is, they don't have it stamped on their forehead. We have to find them. Where are YOU when we are doing that?

This rhetoric is exactly how the cop will come off in court when you provide the examples of your innocence in the ethos of truth.
Squirm and slip and slide all over the place exactly like the pathetic *true crooks* he busts.
*Copthought* ~ you are no different.

Try ETHICS!!! Deonological and teleological philosophies. The different versions of ethics; Ethical Formalism, Ethics of Virtue, Ethics of Care, etc. Whip yourself into a frenzy and have a ball pal. It still isn't helping BOOSTD with his problem. It just makes YOU feel important.

This rhetoric is exactly how the cop will come off in court when you provide the examples of your innocence in the ethos of truth.
Squirm and slip and slide all over the place exactly like the pathetic *true crooks* he busts.
*Copthought* ~ you are no different.

I apologize to everyone for my remarks that strayed from the subject matter.

Cops' pathetic final remark to the court when you have won to ease up some guilt.

Spiked hair moniker dude can now let fly at me without further reply. I'm convinced he's like the guy I was taking to jail who told me that 95% of prison inmates are INNOCENT. Please.

Oh yeah, cut your hair but don't wear a suit just go casual ... you will be found guilty for sure if you wear a suit.

Good luck BOOSTD.

Why does he need luck if you're trying to help him in his innocence?

JohnnyLaw