I'm in a oil fight

**Sarge** · 02-02-2007, 08:58 AM

http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...075#Post815204

**SexOnWheels** · 02-02-2007, 09:30 AM

Not another one.

How many have you actually lost BTW.

Also you have not updated us about Mobil 1 in awhile.

Has the blend been cleaned up to be synthetic only again or should we be using another brand?

**Sarge** · 02-02-2007, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by SexOnWheels

Not another one.

How many have you actually lost BTW.

Also you have not updated us about Mobil 1 in awhile.

Has the blend been cleaned up to be synthetic only again or should we be using another brand?

Mobil1 is a synthetic blend. Not saying that is bad. But it is misleading as hell at $6 per quart.
No...BITOG used to be a really good site for gearheads to talk lube. Those days are gone. Now we got pompous asswipes who want to internet debate and use nothing but BITOG post to support their position. I'm on like my 5th username there. Cuz I get pissed and tell folks to go douche their asshole with a dose of reality from time to time and start all over again

This ass monkey is a kid in Austin who drives a new Vette. Knows jackshit about oil or cars for that matter. But is really good with stirring up shit, double speak, internet debate blah blah....Hey wait a minute...Modulistic...is that you you lil shit! Let that motherfucker pour whatever oil and viscosity he reads is the best...I'll stick with the real world of tearing down LSX blocks and looking myself. UOA's are good....but by no means the end all.

**Modulistic** · 02-02-2007, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Hey wait a minute...Modulistic...is that you you lil shit! Let that motherfucker pour whatever oil and viscosity he reads is the best...

HAHAHAA!

who is this dude?

Ill go find that tard and slap that motherfucker in the nuts.

**Modulistic** · 02-02-2007, 10:29 AM

there, I got your back a little. I emailed my old ex gf, a phd in chemistry or some shit, to give me some ammo to destroy these clowns.

fuckheads.

**Trouble maker** · 02-02-2007, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Mobil1 is a synthetic blend. Not saying that is bad. But it is misleading as hell at $6 per quart.
No...BITOG used to be a really good site for gearheads to talk lube. Those days are gone. Now we got pompous asswipes who want to internet debate and use nothing but BITOG post to support their position. I'm on like my 5th username there. Cuz I get pissed and tell folks to go douche their asshole with a dose of reality from time to time and start all over again

This ass monkey is a kid in Austin who drives a new Vette. Knows jackshit about oil or cars for that matter. But is really good with stirring up shit, double speak, internet debate blah blah....Hey wait a minute...Modulistic...is that you you lil shit! Let that motherfucker pour whatever oil and viscosity he reads is the best...I'll stick with the real world of tearing down LSX blocks and looking myself. UOA's are good....but by no means the end all.

I thought Mobil1 has a synthetic blend...+a fully synthetic oil? I'm confused...

**Sarge** · 02-02-2007, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Trouble maker

I thought Mobil1 has a synthetic blend...+a fully synthetic oil? I'm confused...

Mobil 1 Full Synthetic is now a Group III basestock thus a true blend and no longer a 100% synthetic.

**Sarge** · 02-02-2007, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Modulistic

there, I got your back a little. I emailed my old ex gf, a phd in chemistry or some shit, to give me some ammo to destroy these clowns.

fuckheads.

LOL....Thanks Mod...I owe you one. Yeah that guy is a dipshit. To get on a forum and say 5 fucking 20 weight is better for our LS1's is just retarded.
Patman agreed with me so that sorta let the air out of that blowhard mother fucker. " We here at BITOG dont cater to ..."
Fuck you you dumbass POS. Patman PM'd me and said he was a retard and to blow him off. Hell Mod...you could kill him with your debating skills and not know shit about what you were talking about man! Like a kitty cat playing with a ball...but I think he is pretty much toast right now anyway.

**Trouble maker** · 02-02-2007, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Mobil 1 Full Synthetic is now a Group III basestock thus a true blend and no longer a 100% synthetic.

so actually they are trying to mislead a few?......

**SexOnWheels** · 02-02-2007, 01:49 PM

I believe it was 100% synthetic and they even took other oil brands to court claiming they were syn. even tho they were a blend.

Mobil 1 lost the court case and thought if you cannot beat 'em join 'em and now they are producing a blend like almost all the others...

**Sarge** · 02-02-2007, 03:42 PM

Yup. You hit the nail on the head. Mobil1 has also changed their marketing verbaige. Now they say 100% synthetic cuz the courts say a blend hydrocracked oil is a synthetic. They used to say 100% PAO. Not anymore. But the VOA clearly show dino base oil. Have they dropped their prices. Hell no. Schaeffers/Pennzoil Platinum is better oil at $2.50 a quart less. Royal Purple/Cosworth/VP Racing Oil/Amsoil/RedLine are all still 100% PAO Synthetic.

**bmyers** · 02-02-2007, 03:54 PM

so i should be running 5w-40 or 10w-40?

**Sarge** · 02-02-2007, 05:29 PM

Depends man. Depends on the add pack.SD...either one will do you right.

**bmyers** · 02-02-2007, 05:38 PM

add pack?

**91Z28** · 02-02-2007, 06:59 PM

Oil makes me angry like everything else. Too many fucking choices, so Mobil1 5w-30 EP for me. As long as I change it regularly it I should be fine.

**GatorSS** · 02-02-2007, 10:09 PM

Extra virgin olive oil here.

**0rion** · 02-02-2007, 11:09 PM

I guess I just totally miss the whole point. Is it really worth all the effort and arguments to pick an oil? I've ran Valvoline 5w-30 in mine since I've had it. Is there something I'm missing here? I just figure if you do oil changes regularly there's not much to worry about. I can maybe understand it in some cases where you road race and have the engine hot and working hard for long periods but what about a weekend cruiser that may see a few 0-100 runs a month if that? Is the viscosity of the oil that important? I'm not being a smart ass about it, I'm just saying I know nothing about the subject and maybe I've been wrong all this time.

**Sarge** · 02-03-2007, 02:16 AM

SHIT!!! I just typed out a foot long response and the damn database errored and ate it!!!
Bottom line is this...God,,,I'll type it all again later...

**0rion** · 02-03-2007, 02:53 AM

owned by the database error. I copy my responses for that exact same thing before I click reply right now.
I understand this is a subject you're passionate about and know a great deal about ( not database errors, oil). I can understand why you would want to set the guy straight. What I don't understand is how big of a deal is it to switch from a 30 weight to a 40 weight on a car that's up north, doesn't see sustained high rpms very often, and get's it's oil changed ever 2k anyhow.

**Sarge** · 02-03-2007, 03:29 AM

Orion…OK I’ll do it in Microsoft Word and cut and paste as not to lose it all again J
You are right on with your oil choice and let me explain why. Today’s modern oils are so far superior to what they were even a few years ago. Light years ahead in refining down to the molecular level and basestocks of your average $2 dino quart of oil is on par to top of the line synthetics of just 5-6 years ago.
*The issue is one of education and information. Mobil1 is the latest example of marketing trumps substance. Originally and for years Mobil1 utilized PAO basestocks. Now we all know Mobil1 sued Castrol years back because Castrol utilized highly refined dino and called it full synthetic. Courts sided with Castrol saying the highly refined dino oil was manipulated by man and did not occur naturally therefore it was found to be “synthetic”. PAO basestock is more expensive to produce than the highly refined dino. So Mobil1 marketed the crap out of their PAO basestock…Mobil1 is made from 100% Synthetic PAO basestocks they screamed to the world and plastered on all their bottles.
Cost was $3bucks…fast forward to today…..Virgin Oil Analysis now show Group III highly refined basestock in Mobil1 all of a sudden…. just like Castrol Syntec! And they have changed their marketing hype to reflect “Mobil1 fully synthetic” versus the old “Mobil1 is 100% PAO”…big difference J Why do we care? ….Because it is now $6 bucks a quart and is a dino basestock that is much cheaper to produce.

*Amsoil and Mobil1 have always justified the price of their oils because of long term drain intervals. They have never marketed any advantage of using their products in 3-5K Oil Change Intervals (UOA’s)….so if you’re changing oil every 3-5K or less….there really is no advantage or price justification. I shouldn’t say no advantage at all. Add Packs (Detergents/Friction/Wear Additives/Viscosity Enhancers etc. ) were far superior in these full synthetics back just a few years ago over the conventional dino oils. So there was a slight advantage but in a 3-5K OCI those advantages were miniscule at best…Anyway…the “education of the masses” was based on these synthetics allowing a 15K oil change interval and that is how they justified their price. So we all have been programmed to believe Mobil1/ Amsoil must be very superior and we love our cars so we will plop down big bucks for these oils. You know anybody who goes 15K in their LS1 between oil changes? I don’t. But we love our cars so we pay for the marketing hype and are really not doing our cars any “big favors”….sorta like the guy with the Toyota grocery getter…who just had his oil changed at Jiffy Lube and drove through the car wash…he is so happy he decides to do his car a favor and give her a treat…so he puts in a tank full of Supreme 93 Octane versus his Regular Unleaded. Why would he do that? Because we have all been programmed to believe if it is more expensive than it must be better somehow. Now you and I know he didn’t do shit for that Toyota other than give the oil companies more money and it didn’t do squat for his car over Regular Unleaded. Nothing NADA ZILCH! Same thing with Regular Oil versus Fully Synthetic these days.
I’ll elaborate some more J

Any of today’s SM rated oils are far superior to what we had just 10 years ago. Basestocks down to the molecular level are far superior. Add Packs have been tuned to damn near unimaginable levels in the past ten years. And I am talking about regular $2 dino oils here. The Synthetics have gone the other way. They have walked away from the expensive PAO basestocks of a few years ago and now use Group III (dino) basestocks. Why? Because they can utilize these dino basestocks and get the same levels of wear/longevity and detergents and make their oils cheaper. Amsoil/RedLine/Royal Purple Racing Oils/Cosworth/VP Racing Oil all still utilize PAO basestocks….and many Amsoil products use dino basestocks now…so you have to look for 100% PAO versus 100% Synthetic in the labeling or you’ll buy a blended dino synthetic oil from Amsoil J Mobil1/Valvoline/Castrol/Shaeffers/Pennzoil Platinum “Full Synthetics” are utilizing Group III or GroupII basestocks. So what we have witnessed is “Synthetics” and “Dino” oils have closed the gap. The line has blurred.

So Orion…if you are changing your oil and filter at 3-5K Oil Change Intervals it is damn near impossible to “use the wrong oil” today. So making the right choice in what brand of oil to use is like deciding to get laid by the Playboy bunny on the left or the one on the right. Either way your gonna be just fineJ The discussion now is what viscosity and to some degree what add packs are superior to others. Some use Moly for friction reduction agents and some use other chemicals/agents. Detergent levels etc. The Full Synthetic or Dino debate is a non factor anymore at 3-5K Oil Change Intervals and is now more of a add pack/viscosity discussion. The playing field is level now. What brand of oil is also fairly insignificant.

Viscosity. 5-30? 10-30? 10-40? 20-50? 427Z06 over on BITOG advocates 5-20 in your LS1. I’ll just say this. Any XX-40 weight is the middle of the road for our motors. You won’t hurt a damn thing with any XX-40 weight. Go lower and you run the chance of excessive wear. Go higher and you run the chance of lack of flow to the top end and tight bearing clearances. So I always recommend a XX-40 weight for our cars.

Let me be clear as mud here. I know the major brands “Full Synthetics” have superior add packs over the basic yellow bottle of dino. The price is what determines the value at 3-5K oil change intervals. Mobil1 at $6 bucks or Pennzoil Platinum at $4? I say Pennzoil Platinum because I get superior add packs and molecular uniformity. Why pay the extra$2 bucks per quart? To do my car a favor? And I will close with this absolute (IMHO)….The advantage of even a Pennzoil Platinum over a regular bottle of Pennzoil 10-40 yellow bottle dino at $2 bucks per quart is miniscule at best utilizing a 3-5K OCI. Reason is the Total Base Number of the oils ability to lubricate/protect/clean etc. is about ended its life cycle at 5K in the dino oil…after that you would need the superior add packs that extend the life cycle of the more expensive Pennzoil Platinum. I justify the additional cost of a Pennzoil Platinum or Schaeffer’s at $4 bucks per quart because of the extra detergents and friction agents allow a touch more protection and performance over the dino oil right now. I can justify the $12 dollars extra for that. But cannot justify a $6-$7 per quart “ Super Dooper” oil as I am aware the advantages are non existent in a 3-5K oil change interval over the $4 quart of oil and only slightly ( and I mean very slightly) over the $2 per quart dino oils.